F1 2021 Season
- Thread starter pauldyson1uk
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
After reading this thread the last few weeks I honestly don’t know whether the people laughing at my post saying that didn’t happen agree with me or think that it did happen!
yeah in retrospect the laughing emoji is ambiguous given the thread trajectory, but for the record I agree with you! I was also kind of laughing at the juvenile post you were responding to.Just reading through forums it looks like something similar happened to Hamilton in Spain 2012 when he couldn’t make it back to the pits after qualifying and was moved to the back of the grid, but that rule for qualifying and I think practice was brought in because of Hamilton in 2010 at the Canadian Gp he stopped after qualifying or practice but there was no rule in place so was good.
Refuelling was stopped in 2009 , the minimum fuel rule was brought in 2010 I think.
Lewis was DQ from the Spanish race in 2012 had to start from the back of the grid after getting Pole.
Hamilton was instructed to stop his car en route to the pit lane because of a lack of fuel to provide a sample of because the refuelling mechanic mistakenly turned a switch to drain Hamilton's car of fuel rather than add some in. The FIA technical delegate reported Hamilton to the stewards for the irregularity. McLaren technical director Sam Michael argued to the stewards force majeure caused Hamilton to stop on the track but they rejected the argument and deemed the team to have broken the technical regulations on refuelling.
Finished 8th in the race.
I think there had to be a certain level of fuel since 95 or 96, when they wanted the fuel to be unleaded and less shit in it, so more like normal petrol, but yeah they could always take there samples from the rig back then and 10 was when it became no refills, it looks like they changed that rule for the race or never enacted it for races of having to get it back to the pits
In before some people say Toto got Aston Martin to get disqualified so they'll get more points.
Yeah. Just Max's car was 1,5 million at Silverstone. Yesterday Max's bodywork was completely fecked and Perez's car is probably even more damaged considering he said his engine was damaged in the crash which would mean a grid penalty in his next race too. Bottas has caused several millions worth of damage.A merc took max out the mclaren was just the proxy
I actually didn’t realise it was in place, no wonder Horner is losing his marbles over it.
I think they definitely should refine how the cap rules work.
I think if you need to replace an engine based on something that was not your fault it doesn’t make sense to penalise you by penalty too down the road.
I understand though that that creates a grey area and so it’s tricky. But the engine penalty on Perez if his engine was damaged in that mess further down the road when it needs replacing does seem like a double whammy. I’m less fussed about cost to fix car damage, I think teams should be budgeting that as part of their expected cost. But the engine penalty in particular for me is the main issue.
I think if you need to replace an engine based on something that was not your fault it doesn’t make sense to penalise you by penalty too down the road.
I understand though that that creates a grey area and so it’s tricky. But the engine penalty on Perez if his engine was damaged in that mess further down the road when it needs replacing does seem like a double whammy. I’m less fussed about cost to fix car damage, I think teams should be budgeting that as part of their expected cost. But the engine penalty in particular for me is the main issue.
I think the potential penalty to Perez in future is the one I take issue with most. That does seem like a double hit.
As for the damage, whilst I have sympathy with the view I can also understand why regardless of cause you don’t adjust cap. Firstly because it opens up a grey area on cause and responsibility. But most importantly, I feel teams should budget for these things. Just as all of budget or set aside a portion of our money for unexpected costs, it’s something these teams should be doing too. I’ve sympathy given the cost is incurred at no fault of their own, but it’s racing - it happens. And I don’t hear anyone here talking about the costs the other teams also faced, or any other team outside of RB going on about it - it wasn’t just Max’s and Sergio’s cars damaged today for example.
I don't believe for a second they don't budget for these things because that would just make no sense at all. However, no team is going to foresee and thus budget for the damage Red Bull for example have had in the last two races, and when it isn't your fault but it does impact the development of your car (whether it is for the current season or the next) it does feel like a double hit to me.
So you mean teams are not budgeting well enough? Over the course of a season how many crashes will the average team have?
Yeah I don't think genuine in race crashes should be part of their budget cap.
The cap is there to stop teams over developing with huge resources. Fixing a car due to other drivers incompotence isn't a fair way of doing it.
The cap is there to stop teams over developing with huge resources. Fixing a car due to other drivers incompotence isn't a fair way of doing it.
It just seems like an overly harsh punishment for something that has little to no real effect on anything? The FIA will be able to test for cheating with the remaining fuel. While taking out your main opponents plus a few extra drivers for effect gives a 5 grid punishment, which let's be real, is not a real punishment to these Mercedes'.
I suppose that's one way of looking at it. But for me there's a difference between fecking up yourself and getting fecked by someone else and the latter shouldn't mean your car will be worse off this season or the next. Not being able to finish the race is bad enough.
I agree.
That's true , but I believe they need the extra fuel for additional and third party analysis. For instance, if a team is found by FIA to have used illegal fuel, they may contest that. In that case they will probably need to send a sample to an independent laboratory. I guess it's similar to doping control in sports.
An interesting point I was thinking about this morning.
There was one particular Hamilton attempt on Alonso where Hamilton had gotten ahead of Alonso round the outside of T2 but Alonso positioned his car such that he wasn’t on the inside apex but, legally, just left enough room for Hamilton on the outside but would have been incredibly dangerous for Hamilton to keep at it and make it stick.
Now I know there are plenty of differences between this and the Silverstone incident. But principally, the point I wanted to make was that this is the one real difference in quality between Hamilton and Verstappen right now. Hamilton knew that he was better off not taking that risk and fighting another time or even end up stuck behind him Alonso, because he was better off taking some lead from Max’s lead in the championship than having a collision and making no gain at all.
This is what Max needs to learn - and it’s only because he is still young and hence relatively inexperienced. In Silverstone, he was better off backing out, even if it meant a hit on the ego or losing a handful of points, because he was in the lead in the championship and has a competitive car.
There was one particular Hamilton attempt on Alonso where Hamilton had gotten ahead of Alonso round the outside of T2 but Alonso positioned his car such that he wasn’t on the inside apex but, legally, just left enough room for Hamilton on the outside but would have been incredibly dangerous for Hamilton to keep at it and make it stick.
Now I know there are plenty of differences between this and the Silverstone incident. But principally, the point I wanted to make was that this is the one real difference in quality between Hamilton and Verstappen right now. Hamilton knew that he was better off not taking that risk and fighting another time or even end up stuck behind him Alonso, because he was better off taking some lead from Max’s lead in the championship than having a collision and making no gain at all.
This is what Max needs to learn - and it’s only because he is still young and hence relatively inexperienced. In Silverstone, he was better off backing out, even if it meant a hit on the ego or losing a handful of points, because he was in the lead in the championship and has a competitive car.
Just comes down to personality I think. He's not a particularly likeable or charismatic person.
Good point.
No driver wants to be squeezed like that but it is about racecraft and strategic thinking in the moment.
He is slated in the right leaning British media. It is a similar job to what the media did on Raheem Sterling until they got called out on it.
Unfortunately some of the British public are easily influenced. But for the most part he is supported in the UK.
I noticed that and thought the same thing. Hamilton pulled out of the move and let Alonso through to avoid a potential incident.
There was another one I noticed where Alonso was on the outside and Hamilton was coming up the inside almost level (I think it was T2 again, but it may have been T4). He decided to back off exactly like he did at Silverstone so his front wheel was level with the rear of Alonso and Alonso shifted slightly to the left to give even more space and avoid a collision then accelerated out knowing that he had the pace anyway as Hamilton had backed off.
The maturity will come to max after he wins his first WDC and with age. Hes hungry and impatient to win the WDC. Once he has that monkey off his back he will be a better driver for it. More surgical than a blumt instrument. The pressure will only intensify after the summer break. Hes up against one of the greats of the sport and the best of his generation in lewis.
Its great to see as we were unfortunately deined the years of the old master Senna v Schmacher the young pretender for this throne.
Also thought Nico Rosberg was great in sky commentary and his insights were useful.
Its great to see as we were unfortunately deined the years of the old master Senna v Schmacher the young pretender for this throne.
Also thought Nico Rosberg was great in sky commentary and his insights were useful.
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Yeah Rosberg was brilliant in the box, if they got rid of Croft and put him with Alex Jaques and Brundle that would be the dream.
It's always happened to Hamilton. I pulled up this video of 2017 in Monza, I could find loads more from Italy, Austria, Holland and Belgium. People don't like to seem someone as dominant as Hamilton is. To even it up a bit I've also heard opposition drivers booed at Sliverstone. It's as much a part of F1 as it is football.
If it is it didn't used to be in the not too distant past. The only driver I could ever remember being booed when I was watching F1 growing up was Schumi after some of his worse shenanigans. And while that was more acceptable circumstances even that only lasted a couple of races or so. I can't remember Hakkinen, Alonso, Hill, Coulthard, Frentzen etc. ever getting booed. It may have happened but it would have been out of the ordinary.
Nah, totally disagree with that. Maybe more so these days and your proof it’s ‘always’ happened to Hamilton goes all the way back to all of 2017. Booing is in fashion these days it seems.
agree with you @Abizzz
I can't comment on those because while I have been watching F1 that long whether there was booing regularly before Hamilton I can't remember. It wasn't something that stuck in my head.
Booing is infinitely less frequent in F1 than in football, that's for sure.
Not to say it never happens but it is relatively rare.
Booing towards Hamilton is a thing for obvious reasons, sadly.
Thats different to saying booing is just the same in f1 as football. I’ve never doubted that Hamilton gets disgusting abuse including racial abuse
I'm saying that saying that F1 fans are better than Football fans is rubbish. Hamilton had been harangued since he first came into the sport and is still regularly booed today. Hopefully most of the boos are because he is successfully but there are those out there who dislike him because of his colour and the fact that he is outspoken about discrimination.
Motorsport in general has a totally different atmosphere compared to football in my experiences. That was my initial point to the poster who said sport is sport or words to that effect. Was just my opinion from my experiences at both sports over many years.
My point was that the booing was aimed at Hamilton and that he has always been targeted.
Wow is Hamilton the only black driver in the history of F1? That's quite mental.
That was what happened, but some are making out that Bottas pulled off a plant shot to take out Max, like he was playing pool, which is clearly silly.A merc took max out the mclaren was just the proxy
No, you said booing is as much a part of f1 as it is football. That is what I disagreed with. Sorry to keep on
Deiliberate or not it's still his fault though surely? Can't really blame Norris.
Was absolutely Bottas' fault, no-one can dispute that, it's just the insinuations it was deliberate to take out Max that are daft.
Oh yeah, obviously.
Strolls line into the corner was even better, was something like I’d attempt into the first corner on PlayStation