F1 2021 Season

Should have an answer by about 1.30pm-1.45pm

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TheMagicFoolBus said:


Looks pretty definitive. Maybe Merc thought they could get one over and/or didn't check properly themselves? Mechanical failure seems unlikely since it was working as intended and was fully closed as per the initial findings.

There's no way Max could have changed anything; those wings are build to withstand 800 kilos of downforce. Agreed that it was daft but in all probability as well he was checking the extent to which the rear wing was bending - as that was what Red Bull had flagged up. Still stupid but given that Seb has gotten away with touching cars for years it'd be a bit ridiculous for the FIA to come down hard on him.
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Is there any footage of the drs opening during quali
Given the amount of high quality cameras and the fact that you can easily compare any movement against a known measurement on a part of the wing I would have thought they could establish if the issue was there prior to max touching it...

That said it won't change the fact that max touched two cars when he shouldn't have and im sure red bull wouldn't be happy if Hamilton had done the same on their car
 
sun_tzu said:
Is there any footage of the drs opening during quali
Given the amount of high quality cameras and the fact that you can easily compare any movement against a known measurement on a part of the wing I would have thought they could establish if the issue was there prior to max touching it...

That said it won't change the fact that max touched two cars when he shouldn't have and im sure red bull wouldn't be happy if Hamilton had done the same on their car
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Two parts to that, on the Mercedes element they would have tested the DRS gap prior to the session and should have some record of that happening. They took Bottas' car into scrutinising as well post session so they'll be comparing the two wings on the cars. Note that Red Bull were raising this with the stewards prior to the session as well, so they had some suspicion from FP1. So the stewards will be looking at whether this was either intentional (ie. done prior to the session) or unintentional and occurred during the session. Either way, I'm expecting a DQ for Hamilton and a pit lane start for the sprint race.

I think the Max element is just a storm in a tea cup and being used by Mercedes to clip Max's wings, as they're preparing for a DQ for Hamilton by the stewards. He wouldn't have made any difference to the car
 
For all that Max has been exceptional this year, Mercedes really have been poor as a team. The signs were there previously that they could drop a clanger but they didn’t have stiff competition that could take advantage of it.
 
F-Red said:
Two parts to that, on the Mercedes element they would have tested the DRS gap prior to the session and should have some record of that happening. They took Bottas' car into scrutinising as well post session so they'll be comparing the two wings on the cars. Note that Red Bull were raising this with the stewards prior to the session as well, so they had some suspicion from FP1. So the stewards will be looking at whether this was either intentional (ie. done prior to the session) or unintentional and occurred during the session. Either way, I'm expecting a DQ for Hamilton and a pit lane start for the sprint race.

I think the Max element is just a storm in a tea cup and being used by Mercedes to clip Max's wings, as they're preparing for a DQ for Hamilton by the stewards. He wouldn't have made any difference to the car
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Yes but as far as the rules go it states nobody other than an fia approved person to inspect a car...no caveat about making a difference

In theory 3 engineers are allowed to go into park ferme to properly shut down the car.... if its only about making a difference then 3 merc engineers could measure every part of a red bull or vice versa... hence nobody is allowed to inspect so storm in a teacup... yeah possibly but not an entirely fabricated one and tbh max was stupid to do what he did if there was already a complaint raised
 
sun_tzu said:
Yes but as far as the rules go it states nobody other than an fia approved person to inspect a car...no caveat about making a difference

In theory 3 engineers are allowed to go into park ferme to properly shut down the car.... if its only about making a difference then 3 merc engineers could measure every part of a red bull or vice versa... hence nobody is allowed to inspect so storm in a teacup... yeah possibly but not an entirely fabricated one and tbh max was stupid to do what he did if there was already a complaint raised
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Absolutely, it's one rule that no one would have given time to until yesterday. Bit of tit for tat, which is expected when you have Jonathan Wheatley and Ron Meadows going through the sporting and technical regs.
 
SilentWitness said:
For all that Max has been exceptional this year, Mercedes really have been poor as a team. The signs were there previously that they could drop a clanger but they didn’t have stiff competition that could take advantage of it.
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Totally agree. Poor strategy choices. Poor reliability of the engine. Now this. They have made many mistakes.
 
sun_tzu said:
Is there any footage of the drs opening during quali
Given the amount of high quality cameras and the fact that you can easily compare any movement against a known measurement on a part of the wing I would have thought they could establish if the issue was there prior to max touching it...

That said it won't change the fact that max touched two cars when he shouldn't have and im sure red bull wouldn't be happy if Hamilton had done the same on their car
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If there's some sort of button on the wing that Max could have tampered with that impacted the DRS opening then that's surely an issue in and of itself?

I doubt that even high quality cameras would provide enough resolution to determine the margins definitively.

It's still a stupid thing to do by Max but given that others have done similar with no penalty previous it'd be incredibly harsh to penalise him beyond a fine. If Mercedes are trying to argue he impacted their car to the extent that it failed to meet regulations that's laughable.

EDIT: and apparently that's exactly what they're trying to argue:
https://racingnews365.com/marko-mercedes-claiming-verstappen-damaged-hamiltons-wing

Smacks of desperation, really.
 
If Mercedes are saying that Max damaged the wing, I hope they have some rock solid evidence, if not they are just making themselves look really really stuipd.

There is no way Max would have damaged anything
 
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OK, so it'll still rumble on. Mercedes have been told to use a different rear wing for FP2 and decision will be made later.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
We dont know how much extra the DRS opened, it will be in mm or less, would this have been enough for Lewis to be 4/10th faster than Max ?
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Doesn't matter to be fair, if it's 1mm more than the technical directive then it's breaking the technical regulations for the DRS rear wing.
 
sun_tzu said:
Yes... just like it does not matter if max broke it during his unscheduled inspection... its the inspection that's the breach
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Both should be pushed to the back of the grid. Would be fun that way. They would also set a precedence for the stuff Max did. Lewis would also be getting a lot of those going forward.
 
sun_tzu said:
Yes... just like it does not matter if max broke it during his unscheduled inspection... its the inspection that's the breach
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The bias is strong with this one. Remember when you lied about Seb not touching the cars. That was 90mins ago.
 
If the Merc has broke the rules then a punishment has to be given out, in the case of Lewis I would think its pretty straightforward DQ and at the back of the grid.
Max clearly did touch the car, also against the rules, his punishment, I have no idea, I cant think of any precedent for a punishment level.
 
Adam-Utd said:
If your car is outside of the permitted rules then you're disqualified, simple.

It's no different than running bigger brakes or using 6 wheels. If your car is out of the spec allowed you're chucked out.

Now how they prove it, and whether Mercedes would be stupid enough to try that trick? i'm not sure. Quite possibly a mechanical failure which if proved they should get away with it.

It will definitely be a huge moment in the championship. It would be hard enough to catch Max starting 6th, but any lower than that and he has no chance.
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If your car is breaking the rules then yes you should be punished, it just seems wrong that you get the same kind of punishment no matter how much or how little you break the rules. Of course trying to make some sort of system that decides what infringment gets what punishment would be a complete nightmare and would definitely create more problems than it's worth, so I guess what I'm saying is that I think a DQ for something like this is too harsh even though I get it's what they have to do.
 
Zlaatan said:
I guess what I'm saying is that I think a DQ for something like this is too harsh even though I get it's what they have to do.
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It's quite a binary thing, you exceed the regulated space and it's deemed an illegal car in accordance to the technical regulations. Those regulations doesn't have a grey area or a sweeping scale of punishment based on the part, and the FIA are pretty clear on that if a car isn't meeting those regulations then it's DQ'd.

Sporting regulations is where you can interpret the rules in many different ways, and can apply punishments a little differently. Technical regulations are pretty black and white.
 
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