F1 2021 Season

Max hit the wall and was closer than he wanted early on. However, apparently this was the greatest lap of all time.

Or, he was pushing past the limit and was lucky to have made it as far as he did.

Edit: also seems quite likely he pushed the tires too hard and perhaps they let go a bit.
 
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I’d be surprised if both of them finish tomorrow, max going hard and crashing, Lewis with a heavy tank at the start on cooler tires one mistake at the wrong part of the track and it’s game over, Lewis was lucky not to end up in the wall himself at the start of Q3 with a heavier tank for the triple run, safety cars as well could cause trouble cooling the tires.
 
christy87 said:
I’d be surprised if both of them finish tomorrow, max going hard and crashing, Lewis with a heavy tank at the start on cooler tires one mistake at the wrong part of the track and it’s game over, Lewis was lucky not to end up in the wall himself at the start of Q3 with a heavier tank for the triple run, safety cars as well could cause trouble cooling the tires.
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I could see a surprise winner here if somebody has the balls to shoes fuel a car and rely on say 15 laps behind a safety car or if somebody simply gets lucky with safety cars / pit stops/ tyre strategy just coming together
 
sun_tzu said:
I could see a surprise winner here if somebody has the balls to shoes fuel a car and rely on say 15 laps behind a safety car or if somebody simply gets lucky with safety cars / pit stops/ tyre strategy just coming together
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Might not even have to require 15 laps behind the safety car the race could be red flagged if it’s deemed to dangerous to race on.
 
I also am of the view that tomorrows race will most likely be decided about how luck of the draw falls in terms of pit stops and positioning at the time of the safety cars and / or red flags that are bound to happen.
 
On a separate note - the expectation was that Merc would be faster than RB here but that hasn’t really manifested. Even Max acknowledged it too. What’s the reason for it and is there any read across to what it might mean for Abu Dhabi?
 
slyadams said:
Max hit the wall and was closer than he wanted early on. However, apparently this was the greatest lap of all time.

Or, he was pushing past the limit and was lucky to have made it as far as he did.

Edit: also seems quite likely he pushed the tires too hard and perhaps they let go a bit.
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Who said that?
 
rpitroda said:
On a separate note - the expectation was that Merc would be faster than RB here but that hasn’t really manifested. Even Max acknowledged it too. What’s the reason for it and is there any read across to what it might mean for Abu Dhabi?
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Comes down to getting the tyres in the right operating window. RB are taking 1 lap to do it, Mercedes 2 laps. This entire season has been about unlocking the setup on each circuit to get the tyres in the optimum operating window as soon as possible. Some circuits it is easier than others for RB and vice versa for Mercedes.
 
christy87 said:
I’d be surprised if both of them finish tomorrow, max going hard and crashing, Lewis with a heavy tank at the start on cooler tires one mistake at the wrong part of the track and it’s game over, Lewis was lucky not to end up in the wall himself at the start of Q3 with a heavier tank for the triple run, safety cars as well could cause trouble cooling the tires.
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On Ted's notebook (Skyf1), he said lewis had a repeat of the brake issues that he had at the start of the qatar GP. It was news to me that lewis had brake issues ar Qatar. I wonder if Ted was referring to lewis's first run in q3 when he overcooked it.
 
slyadams said:
Perhaps some hyperbole, but I see a great many people calling it the most amazing lap. I see it differently, he crashed once and nearly crashed once in the space of < 1 lap.
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If he hadn’t crashed, that would have been up there with Senna’s Monaco pole in 1988 as one of the best laps of all time.

Frankly the last time I’ve seen a driver pull a lap out of his arse like that was Schumacher at Canada in 2005. I remember commentators crapping on that he was fuelled light given the abject performance of the Ferrari… come race time it turns out he wasn’t that light.

But Max crashed so it doesn’t matter… much like Mount’s goal yesterday against the Hammers.
 
Went into the season wanting Max to win the title but he's really unlikeable.
 
slyadams said:
Perhaps some hyperbole, but I see a great many people calling it the most amazing lap. I see it differently, he crashed once and nearly crashed once in the space of < 1 lap.
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mmmm dont think you did, you saw a few including me, saying it could have been an amazing lap, he went for it, maybe too hard on this unforgiving track and paid for it.
 
Red Bull has ultimately declined to appeal the Saudi Arabian GP stewards' decision to clear Lewis Hamilton from an alleged double yellow flag breach in FP3.

Hamilton was relaxed when it came tolight that the yellow display panels had been inadvertently activated in FP3, although for just one second.

Red bull motorsport boss Helmut Marko had signaled after qualifying the team's intent to appeal the FIA's decision, but the governing has said that the deadline for lodging the said appeal had come and gone without any further action from the Milton Keynes-based outfit.
 
Helmut Marko says Red Bull will play it safe and replace Max Verstappen's gearbox if there's even "a glimpse" of damage to the element following the Dutchman's crash in qualifying in Jeddah.

Verstappen was on his final flyer in Q3 and on course to seize pile from Lewis Hamilton when he messed up his entry into the final corner and hit the outside wall on the exit, damaging his RB16B's rear right corner.

Red Bull's crews had yet to fully assess the damage but Marko said the team would not take any risks and replace the gearbox if there's a doubt of any damage.

For Marko, a potential five-place grid drop for swapping the element is a secondary consideration.

"We have to take it apart and look at it," the Austrian told Servus TV.

"We saw it with [Charles] Leclerc in Monte Carlo. He had had a similar impact. They decided not to change and then bang, on the warm-up lap, the consequences became clear.

"We are so fast that we don't take any risks. If the gearbox has damage or glimpses of that, then we will change it. It's difficult to overtake here, but still."
 
mariachi-19 said:
If he hadn’t crashed, that would have been up there with Senna’s Monaco pole in 1988 as one of the best laps of all time.

Frankly the last time I’ve seen a driver pull a lap out of his arse like that was Schumacher at Canada in 2005. I remember commentators crapping on that he was fuelled light given the abject performance of the Ferrari… come race time it turns out he wasn’t that light.

But Max crashed so it doesn’t matter… much like Mount’s goal yesterday against the Hammers.
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Come off it, it's not even as good as Styrian race last year where Lewis got pole by more than 1 second ahead of everyone else in the fecking rain.
 
christy87 said:
Might not even have to require 15 laps behind the safety car the race could be red flagged if it’s deemed to dangerous to race on.
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Agreed. There’s very little room for drivers to go around any debris. You certainly don’t want to be a corner or two behind a car that crashes.
 
i hope max gets a grid penalty for a gearbox change. being back in the pack with so much on the line and managing to cut through the field without crashIng into someone could be a career defining moment for him. he’s clearly a generational talent, i get the feeling he is his own worst enemy at the minute and doesn’t think he does much wrong. if you’re winning and acting like a prick, you can at least just say people are jealous, when you’re acting the prick without any success, people just think you’re a prick.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
mmmm dont think you did, you saw a few including me, saying it could have been an amazing lap, he went for it, maybe too hard on this unforgiving track and paid for it.
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I did. Redcafe isn’t the only place in the world. Social media is awash with “what an amazing lap”.
 
mariachi-19 said:
If he hadn’t crashed, that would have been up there with Senna’s Monaco pole in 1988 as one of the best laps of all time.

Frankly the last time I’ve seen a driver pull a lap out of his arse like that was Schumacher at Canada in 2005. I remember commentators crapping on that he was fuelled light given the abject performance of the Ferrari… come race time it turns out he wasn’t that light.

But Max crashed so it doesn’t matter… much like Mount’s goal yesterday against the Hammers.
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I remember that lap.
British commentary was something like
James Allen- “that lap came out of nowhere.”
Brundle - “that lap came from Michael Schumacher.”
 
Bad feeling about today. I just have a feeling if Max gets close enough to Lewis he's going to pull out some scummy move to ruin both of their races.

Now would be a really good time for Bottas to be a good racing driver and keep Max behind him but we all know Max will be ahead of him after the first corner.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
Helmut Marko says Red Bull will play it safe and replace Max Verstappen's gearbox if there's even "a glimpse" of damage to the element following the Dutchman's crash in qualifying in Jeddah.

Verstappen was on his final flyer in Q3 and on course to seize pile from Lewis Hamilton when he messed up his entry into the final corner and hit the outside wall on the exit, damaging his RB16B's rear right corner.

Red Bull's crews had yet to fully assess the damage but Marko said the team would not take any risks and replace the gearbox if there's a doubt of any damage.

For Marko, a potential five-place grid drop for swapping the element is a secondary consideration.

"We have to take it apart and look at it," the Austrian told Servus TV.

"We saw it with [Charles] Leclerc in Monte Carlo. He had had a similar impact. They decided not to change and then bang, on the warm-up lap, the consequences became clear.

"We are so fast that we don't take any risks. If the gearbox has damage or glimpses of that, then we will change it. It's difficult to overtake here, but still."
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Pauldy can you always post the link when you post stuff from media sources please.
 
Max has avoided a penalty for gearbox change as RB have looked at it and it's ok.

Also I have no idea who said Max's qually lap would have been the greatest ever if he hadnt of hit the wall. That utter b.s. It was a balls to the wall great lap until the last corner. If he had pulled it off it would go in the list with the ones below.

There have been other drivers who have pulled out amazing qualifiying laps: lewis at singapore in 2018 (probably his best qually lap ever), schmacher at monaco in 96, senna at Monaco in 1988, who finished 1.4 seconds on pole ahead of 2nd place Alain Prost who was his teammate! Mansell at Silverstone in 1992. Trulli at Monaco in 2004 who took pole by over 0.4 seconds in a benetton.
 
rimaldo said:
i hope max gets a grid penalty for a gearbox change. being back in the pack with so much on the line and managing to cut through the field without crashIng into someone could be a career defining moment for him. he’s clearly a generational talent, i get the feeling he is his own worst enemy at the minute and doesn’t think he does much wrong. if you’re winning and acting like a prick, you can at least just say people are jealous, when you’re acting the prick without any success, people just think you’re a prick.
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Verstappen hasn't done much wrong this season though now did he? Or at least up until now, he made less mistakes than Hamilton. That's why he's leading the table going into today's race after a long season. He really hasn't been that much of a prick either, compared to any other driver this season, they've all had their moments.

State of the comments in here, not just your post by the way, but Jesus Christ. Imagine feeling so threatened about potentially not being able to have a petty little circle jerk about how much of a deity Sir Lewis Hamilton is and how he's the best driver that has ever graced this planet, that people resort to posting the stuff they did, and not just in the heat of the moment, but consistently throughout the year. About a 24 year old kid who's worked his way up with a great team but still from an underdog position, because unlike Lewis over the last years he hasn't had the luxury to be a part of the very richest team with a lame duck driver in Bottas completely dedicating his career to obey and serve the success of Mercedes.

What Verstappen tried last night might've been too much, but it's his style, always has been and trust me, it always will be, age and experience will change very little about that. Relentlessly pushing for every opportunity and not wanting to play it smart or acting calculated but going for the true maximum. That's pure racing. Some like it, others apparently not, fair enough.

Win or lose, I think it's been a fantastic season for Verstappen, and Hamilton has only been very marginally less fantastic. I've enjoyed the shit out of watching this year and am really, really looking forward to tonight's race. Going by the reactions all around the world, and the influx of new fans it seems a lot of people feel similar. How about we just sit back in these weird pandemic times and try to enjoy the show? Would that be possible, or is that just too much to ask?
 
Glad he's avoided a gearbox penalty. I'd forgotten about Hamilton being able to repair the car during a red flag. That is one weird rule. I think you should be starting from the garage if you repair. Perhaps tires are ok since there's likely debris and potential for random flats.
 
Henrik Larsson said:
Verstappen hasn't done much wrong this season though now did he? Or at least up until now, he made less mistakes than Hamilton. That's why he's leading the table going into today's race after a long season. He really hasn't been that much of a prick either, compared to any other driver this season, they've all had their moments.

State of the comments in here, not just your post by the way, but Jesus Christ. Imagine feeling so threatened about potentially not being able to have a petty little circle jerk about how much of a deity Sir Lewis Hamilton is and how he's the best driver that has ever graced this planet, that people resort to posting the stuff they did, and not just in the heat of the moment, but consistently throughout the year. About a 24 year old kid who's worked his way up with a great team but still from an underdog position, because unlike Lewis over the last years he hasn't had the luxury to be a part of the very richest team with a lame duck driver in Bottas completely dedicating his career to obey and serve the success of Mercedes.

What Verstappen tried last night might've been too much, but it's his style, always has been and trust me, it always will be, age and experience will change very little about that. Relentlessly pushing for every opportunity and not wanting to play it smart or acting calculated but going for the true maximum. That's pure racing. Some like it, others apparently not, fair enough.

Win or lose, I think it's been a fantastic season for Verstappen, and Hamilton has only been very marginally less fantastic. I've enjoyed the shit out of watching this year and am really, really looking forward to tonight's race. Going by the reactions all around the world, and the influx of new fans it seems a lot of people feel similar. How about we just sit back in these weird pandemic times and try to enjoy the show? Would that be possible, or is that just too much to ask?
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I think he'll dial it back each year just like Hamilton has done. Either way, multiple WC heading his way.
 
senorgregster said:
Glad he's avoided a gearbox penalty. I'd forgotten about Hamilton being able to repair the car during a red flag. That is one weird rule. I think you should be starting from the garage if you repair. Perhaps tires are ok since there's likely debris and potential for random flats.
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Source?
 
Race start today is so key. If any of the front 3 get a bad start it could really spell trouble because if it pushes them into the midfield area, where I’m struggling to see how a collision is avoided in the first few corners of the race given the nature of those corners. Someone is surely bound to collide there, you don’t want that to be you. And the advantage of being at the front will help if they all get away well.
 
I wouldn't be surprised to see a red flag today. The track seems so narrow at certain points. If there's a collision, I don't see how they can safely clear the track under a safety car.

Bottas needs to step up today.
 
I agree with a lot in here. I think we’re in for a stop start race. Not a chance that the first lap is completed without a collision IMO
 
So many people hoping for things from Bottas. I swear after every qualifying Hamilton hypes up Bottas and then 2 laps into the race he is on the radio asking where’s Valettri whilst Bottas is like 10th
 
I think if Bottas gets a good start, and keeps Max behind him, I can foresee this being a difficult track to overtake. Having said that, Max and Lewis are so significantly faster than everyone else - not necessarily over one lap (where it’s apparent but not so significant) but over a race - I think Max will still eventually get past Bottas.

I think the undercut has the potential to be significant on this circuit.

Does anyone know if we are looking at a one or two stopper?

If Bottas stays ahead of Max it could be critical, even if he only succeeds for 3/4 laps. If Hamilton can keep a 3 second buffer to Max that’s critical as it gives the gap he needs to avoid the undercut.
 
rpitroda said:
I think if Bottas gets a good start, and keeps Max behind him, I can foresee this being a difficult track to overtake. Having said that, Max and Lewis are so significantly faster than everyone else - not necessarily over one lap (where it’s apparent but not so significant) but over a race - I think Max will still eventually get past Bottas.

I think the undercut has the potential to be significant on this circuit.

Does anyone know if we are looking at a one or two stopper?

If Bottas stays ahead of Max it could be critical, even if he only succeeds for 3/4 laps. If Hamilton can keep a 3 second buffer to Max that’s critical as it gives the gap he needs to avoid the undercut.
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I suspect lots of stops but atypical ones under red.
 
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