F1 2021 Season

hobbers said:
It clearly wasn't, because he gains nothing from brake testing him. Just as Hamilton had nothing to gain from hitting him. Max was expecting Lewis to know he was giving the place up and Lewis was just unaware because he hadn't been told.
Click to expand...

If Hamilton had lost his wing, Verstappen would have won the title and he was probably quite lucky not to lose it in the end.

I agree that Max didn't deliberately brake test him though, although he did try to play a game or two to make a point, hence the movement to the right and left and the sudden acceleration, then slowing again.
 
Watching it back with the team radio, I don’t think they have done anything wrong, they told him to let him pass and he has slowed down to allow that.
 
I really do think that Max did veer side to side slightly, but not in such a way that it was egregiously bad. I just think it’s awful communication from the race director. I can understand why Max is slowing down to give the spot back, and why he did it there and how he did it (he’s in his rights to get the DRS and make Lewis take an unfavourable line into the corner). I can also understand why Hamilton had no idea what was going on. Both of which would be completely avoidable if Massi had communicated the switch in the right order at the right time.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
Max is ahead on points. Of course he gains, even if they both DNF or if Hamilton has to pit for a new wing.

That principle has been along way before the turbo hybrid era. Its a basic.
Click to expand...

And so driving someone off the track makes sense. Giving no room makes sense. Something like what happened in Monza makes sense.

But no racing driver is ever going to consider taking someone out by brake testing. Worst case you're taken out, you get a penalty, and you need a new engine and gearbox. While the car behind just loses their front.

It's not like what Vettel did to Hamilton where they were crawling around behind a safety car. At race speed it's just a fools errand.
 
hobbers said:
And so driving someone off the track makes sense. Giving no room makes sense. Something like what happened in Monza makes sense.

But no racing driver is ever going to consider taking someone out by brake testing. Worst case you're taken out, you get a penalty, and you need a new engine and gearbox. While the car behind just loses their front.

It's not like what Vettel did to Hamilton where they were crawling around behind a safety car. At race speed it's just a fools errand.
Click to expand...
For once, I think we agree! My only caveat to that is if either a) it becomes the case Hamilton knew Max was letting him past, and still went slowly - although this seems unlikely. Or b) telemetry shows Max braked hard just in front of Max. Even in this case I don’t think the intention was to cause a collision, but in that case he has to take responsibility for it happening because you just can’t do that.
 
One thing that’s gone under the radar is all the punishments were basically irrelevant anyway. Max’s tyre’s went off so much that Hamilton would have made it past eventually, if he wasn’t taken out.

That’s before you even think about how much wear Max gained back by spending loads of time under SC and VSC. There’s a good chance he would have had to pit again right?
 
Bit rich of Horner to claim Hamilton was playing for the DRS zone, when that's pretty much the instruction they gave Max :lol: But yeah, it seems to be both a bit of that and terrible communication from the race control. Surely they should always tell the car behind first.

I hope Max didn't extra brake after lifting off, as his positioning was slightly dodgy enough to make it a big problem if he did. I don't really care who wins, I just want the last race to be head to head on points and podium :drool:
 
hp88 said:
Watching it back with the team radio, I don’t think they have done anything wrong, they told him to let him pass and he has slowed down to allow that.
Click to expand...
The Red Bull team radio played on sky was not at the same time as Max slowed. Just in case you assumed they played the audio and video at the correct time?
 
hobbers said:
And so driving someone off the track makes sense. Giving no room makes sense. Something like what happened in Monza makes sense.

But no racing driver is ever going to consider taking someone out by brake testing. Worst case you're taken out, you get a penalty, and you need a new engine and gearbox. While the car behind just loses their front.

It's not like what Vettel did to Hamilton where they were crawling around behind a safety car. At race speed it's just a fools errand.
Click to expand...
Considering Max just tried to take out Lewis twice, both times on turn 1 it seems your point is not accurate.

The rear of the car is much stronger the front wing. The front wing is the most delicate part of the car.
 
from Sky F1


Hamilton and Verstappen were summoned to stewards around 20 minutes' ago now, although with press conferences and TV pen interview commitments to fulfil it seems they have only recently headed there.

Who knows when we'll get a verdict, but there's surely plenty of radio transmissions, video angles and telemetry for the stewards' panel to look over in their deliberations before they even take what the drivers have to say into account.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
from Sky F1


Hamilton and Verstappen were summoned to stewards around 20 minutes' ago now, although with press conferences and TV pen interview commitments to fulfil it seems they have only recently headed there.

Who knows when we'll get a verdict, but there's surely plenty of radio transmissions, video angles and telemetry for the stewards' panel to look over in their deliberations before they even take what the drivers have to say into account.
Click to expand...
They probably forgot the cable to download it this time and will announce their verdict after lights out in Abu Dhabi.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
The Red Bull team radio played on sky was not at the same time as Max slowed. Just in case you assumed they played the audio and video at the correct time?
Click to expand...
Yeah thought it was in sync with the radio ?
I guess the stewards must have something we are not aware of as it would a bit pointless to call them both up for this.
 
From Sky F1


Sky F1's Damon Hill:

"It will be upon the driver who is letting the other past to do it as safely as possible. But l can't really see what Max did wrong. He may have slowed down abruptly, but I think Lewis was nervous about going alongside him."

FFS Damon, you say he did nothing much wrong, then said he braked abruptly !!
Lewis was nervous FFS utter bullshit Damon.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
From Sky F1


Sky F1's Damon Hill:

"It will be upon the driver who is letting the other past to do it as safely as possible. But l can't really see what Max did wrong. He may have slowed down abruptly, but I think Lewis was nervous about going alongside him."

FFS Damon, you say he did nothing much wrong, then said he braked abruptly !!
Lewis was nervous FFS utter bullshit Damon.
Click to expand...
Yeah I kinda felt he contradicted himself a few times.
 
Redlambs said:
Norris going in on the tyre change under red flag rule. He's correct too, it's completely trash to allow that to be a thing.
Click to expand...
Yep. And so is damage repair. I think at the point of a red flag, it should literally be paused race. Can’t do anything.

The only time I would make an exception is weather related eg. Switching from a dry tyre to a wet tyre.
 
rpitroda said:
I don’t think so either. But he did slow down right before the accident. But not sure if that was Hamilton speeding up as he realised he was meant to go past as he was getting the message? Or did Max slow down? Unless telemetry says otherwise, I’d give Max the benefit here. It was just a confusing situation caused by bad information sharing with the race director. Massi by the way should be out of the job. It’s common sense to tell the following car before telling the leading car, for this exact reason.
Click to expand...

I'd agree with this. I think for me the sum of the matter is that the crash wouldn't have happened if Lewis was aware Max was letting him past. Max is not at fault for Lewis not getting the message in time, and Lewis is not at fault for not getting the radio message in time.

I think the claim about breaking, accelerate, breaking is visible in the replay, because I think Max wanted Lewis to pass him earlier.
If we listen to the engine in this clip, you can hear how early Max slows to let Lewis past, so there's a lot of time for him to do so. Then Max continues to slow, probably with the impression that Lewis was aware he would let him past. It'd be strict if they penalize someone for this.




The question is whether FIA were slow to give the message to Mercedes, or if Mercedes were slow to relay that to Lewis, but it sounded like Max was letting Lewis past very soon after getting the radio message, so FIA might've been telling Mercedes at the same time as Red Bull talked to Max if the FIA told Red Bull first.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
From Sky F1


Sky F1's Damon Hill:

"It will be upon the driver who is letting the other past to do it as safely as possible. But l can't really see what Max did wrong. He may have slowed down abruptly, but I think Lewis was nervous about going alongside him."

FFS Damon, you say he did nothing much wrong, then said he braked abruptly !!
Lewis was nervous FFS utter bullshit Damon.
Click to expand...

Damon is as pro Lewis anti Max as they come, so that maybe tells you something.

Racing drivers do not consider brake testing a viable strategy. Try brake testing someone in a kart and see what happens. :lol:
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
Horner claiming Lewis was playing games going for DRS activation line.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was Max who decided to try and brake to give the place back and use the DRS activation line to gain an advantage despite him being at fault.
Click to expand...
Agreed! Even their radio messages indicated giving back place strategically!
 
Redlambs said:
Norris going in on the tyre change under red flag rule. He's correct too, it's completely trash to allow that to be a thing.
Click to expand...
He's entirely right to complain. Margins are so thin in F1, especially in the middle of the pack. Essentially he lost his reward because the stewards put out the wrong flag.
 
rpitroda said:
Yep. And so is damage repair. I think at the point of a red flag, it should literally be paused race. Can’t do anything.

The only time I would make an exception is weather related eg. Switching from a dry tyre to a wet tyre.
Click to expand...
I think you should be able to work on the car but that should mean that the car starts from the pit lane.
 
Buster15 said:
If you read your post, you will see that you have contradicted yourself.
Lewis has no idea....
Error by Lewis.
They can't both be correct.
Click to expand...
Lewis had no idea Max was informed to let him through. Little nuance there.

If the telemetry shows Max slowed, accelerated and slowed then it's 100% on Max.
 
2uwzg6q8hs381.png



Edit: Here's laps 35-37 for both drivers
Second edit: Contact occurs at approx 5300m, the first dip down to 100 km/h.

geax7859hs381.png

t8izy9i9hs381.png
 
Last edited:
rpitroda said:
Yep. And so is damage repair. I think at the point of a red flag, it should literally be paused race. Can’t do anything.

The only time I would make an exception is weather related eg. Switching from a dry tyre to a wet tyre.
Click to expand...

If it was a red flag because 2 cars had clashed front wings and then say 6 or 7 cars behind them got punctures going over the debris?

I would guess its for a scenario like that they decided a tyre change made sense?

Obviousley today that didn't happen and the rule seems daft... equally punishing a bunch of cars who couldn't avoid debris would seem harsh
 
You must log in or register to reply here.