F1 2021 Season

How many that are commenting regarding what will happen are actually still watching sky f1?
Been interesting hearing the discussion on there last few minutes, it's definitely up in the air right now from what I am hearing.

i’ll still watch it next year like the little bitch i am.
 
Broadly there were two ways the rule could be applied while under the safety car.

If they don't let any cars through, Hamilton wins the race in pretty much every scenario.

If they let all the cars through, the race finishes under the safety car and Hamilton still wins.

The obvious problem is that neither side can be 100% sure of the outcome in the first scenario, but considering the winning margin was just over 2 seconds, and it appeared that Hamilton backed off towards the end of the final lap, I'd say it leans in his favour quite considerably.

Edit: what @Leg-End said
The logical steps (in my mind) if they decided to correct would be:

- The error was only allowing some of the lapped cars through.
- Even when they did, the rules state that the safety car should be in the next lap, not the lap it happens.
- In which case Hamilton would have been at the front and ergo would have won.

If they decide the act, it’s not about handing Lewis the win. It’s playing the steps of what would have happened, I guess.
So basically Lewis would just be gifted the race win, because in any of the scenarios that follows the rules, he does win? Can that be done?
 
There's no football comparison I can think of. It would be like a team winning 5-0 and the officials deciding to send four players off from the winning team and making it next goal winner.
Could have done with that a few weeks back, mind you, they still would have scored the next goal 4 players down.
 
Yeah and that falls into the same category as Seb's fueltank leak disqualifying him.

Although you could actually argue that a 0.2mm wider DRS might have given him an advantage in qualifying, since no one can be sure at what point the DRS flap started failing.
We both know that the rear wing issue did nothing at all to change that qualifying. So surely given where this season is now, we can just stop trying to score those points in debates?
 
I think plenty of people had mentally resigned already around lap 52-53 when it was clear Verstappen couldn't close the gap fast enough. If the race had ended under a Safety Car I don't think there'd have been as much outrage. This really does have an artificial feel over it, as if they just had to make the last lap competitive.

They did make that last lap a race, but not competitive.

Horner asked for it before the end, and basically confirmed it afterwords on live tv. I think that'll come up again.
 
So basically Lewis would just be gifted the race win? Can that be done?

that’s what they’d like to do, they’re just asking horner if he’s ok with that or if he would like a different outcome.
 
No it doesn't matter. Cars being alongside each other under a safety car happens all the time, and two cars alongside each other going around a corner means technically there's going to be instances where the car behind is fractionally ahead, without passing.

Lewis was about 0.6s ahead at the restart.

What happened at the restart today with both leading cars literally side-by-side absolutely does not happen 'all the time'.
So basically Lewis would just be gifted the race win? Can that be done?


All outcomes are now equally shit from F1's point of view. As others have said, I expect Masi will do a Stratton and the FIA will consider that to be that. Then maybe CAS for months.
 
Yeah and that falls into the same category as Seb's fueltank leak disqualifying him. Technical regulations have always been different to racing regulations.

Although you could actually argue that a 0.2mm wider DRS might have given him an advantage in qualifying, since no one can be sure at what point the DRS flap started failing.
It was only on one side of the wing though - so it would have been unbalanced.
 
So basically Lewis would just be gifted the race win, because in any of the scenarios that follows the rules, he does win? Can that be done?
Feck knows it can be done. But I disagree with your notion here of “gifting” him the win. In many ways, what happened gifted Max the win. Yes I know he still had to overtake, but if we are just being honest and not trying to score points in a debate, Max wins in that scenario 99 times out of 100.
 
Who’d win in a fight?

Horner-Toto. I think everything else being equal Toto batters him but suspect Horner would have a mate with a knife behind him.

Max-Lewis. Reckon easy win for Max.
 
that’s what they’d like to do, they’re just asking horner if he’s ok with that or if he would like a different outcome.

Masi is in the process of doing so, sincerely, I bet. :lol:
 
If they don’t find anything in the ‘overtake’, which feels like it should be pretty black and white, then what can they actually do?

They can’t punish Max for the the FIA imposing the rules incorrectly, surely?
 
The only way Max wins the title is the FIA not following their own rules, not even bending them, legitimately ignoring them.

If Latifi doesn't crash Hamilton wins, if the SC rules are applied by the book, Hamilton wins.

It honestly feels like the FIA saw the opportunity for a headline historic finish and scored a complete own goal. In a sport that has reams of rules, it's pretty amazing they just went "nah, they don't matter now".

Should have thrown the red flag, 5 lap sprint and yes had Hamilton lost you would say he's unlucky but at least he had a chance. The FIA have created an absolute circus out of what was an epic season long battle, I expected nothing less.
 
We both know that the rear wing issue did nothing at all to change that qualifying. So surely given where this season is now, we can just stop trying to score those points in debates?

Well we absolutely do not know that. There's a reason DRS wings are checked so often and with such precision. The more open the flap the faster you go.

But that's by the by. There's always been a difference in applying technical regulations and racing regulations. One is not open to interpretation and nuance and the other always has been.
 
I see Mercedes are gracious in defeat.
They had the race wrapped up and Red Bull said it needed a miracle. Then the rules were broken causing them to lose. Why would they be gracious.
 
Feck knows it can be done. But I disagree with your notion here of “gifting” him the win. In many ways, what happened gifted Max the win. Yes I know he still had to overtake, but if we are just being honest and not trying to score points in a debate, Max wins in that scenario 99 times out of 100.
Yeah, I should really rephrase that, under the rules, Lewis would win and he's been robbed.
 
I see Mercedes are gracious in defeat.

Did you watch the race and the interviews? Or are you being sarcastic based on Sky’s breaking news banner?

They’re well within their rights to protest.. anyone would.
 
The latest from Abu Dhabi
Sky Sports News' Craig Slater
"Both teams were summoned to the stewards, then they were given a little bit of a break and they were instructed to go back and get their evidence together. This is a continuation of that earlier meeting.
"We could have a decision from the stewards, whether or not they uphold or don't Mercedes' protest, tonight. Mercedes would then have licence via FIA protocols to go via their appeals procedure, but only until Thursday as I understand it because the Prize Giving Ceremony at the FIAto crown the world champion is the cut-off point for all of that.
There would be further recourse via the Court of Arbitration for Sport. Mercedes do think the more serious of the two matters, os the issue of the protocols not being followed. They think that last lap should not have occurred.
"Key to this could be how much discretion Michael Masi had personally to make these calls or to judge when a situation is right or wrong within the framework of the rules."
 
there’s only one way to resolve this fairly. wolff, horner, hamilton, verstappen all stand on the start/finish line and see who can piss the furthest.
I feel like Wolff's height gives him the advantage here, unless Red Bull makes you piss longer...
 
If they don’t find anything in the ‘overtake’, which feels like it should be pretty black and white, then what can they actually do?

They can’t punish Max for the the FIA imposing the rules incorrectly, surely?
Is it a punishment if he only got into this position through their feck up?

Like VAR taking away a brillant goal scored after a legit foul the ref ignored
 
Well we absolutely do not know that. There's a reason DRS wings are checked so often and with such precision. The more open the flap the faster you go.

But that's by the by. There's always been a difference in applying technical regulations and racing regulations. One is not open to interpretation and nuance and the other always has been.
Alright then. I tried to engage in a reasonable debate but no.
 
Will there be a decision tonight or is it going to drag on?

I imagine this will drag on and on until Thursday (which is the line in the sand), whatever happens tonight will no doubt be appealed.

Awful race management. Masi simply had to finish under safety car or have the final lap without the unlapping. He wanted to make a final lap headline more than follow the rules of the sport. Regardless of outcome the rules need to be more rigid, it is crazy that the team principles can talk to the race director during the race. Listening to RB saying "we just need one racing lap" leaves a very bad taste.
 
What happened at the restart today with both leading cars literally side-by-side absolutely does not happen 'all the time'.

They weren't side by side at the restart. They were side by side on a corner two turns before the restart.

Which does happen often, at least somewhere through the field. Watch any safety car restart when the leader starts backing up the pack, especially on tracks with a lot of corners before the main straight.