F1 2021 Season

[Adam-Utd]

Just talking about racing for a minute (god forbid), is there a way that Lewis could have defended that corner? Max's only passing strategy on that track seems to be diving down the inside on those tight corners, could Lewis have done better to defend on 'the lap'?

so if lewis covered the corner that max overtook on (pulled to the left to stop him diving inside) he’d get a much worse entrance to the straight and lose acceleration.

he could have tried that and hoped that his top speed would have been enough, but with max on brand new tyres the chances of that happening were extremely slim.

I think Lewis should have covered it a little better to force it into a pure drag race. I don’t think he expected the move that early and probably expected max to try and get it done on the straight.

In his situation though you just cannot make up for the tyre differential.

Max would have taken a much wider entrance, cut back at a tighter angle then used his superior traction to power passed. Hamilton’s only hope was to get a bit dirty and try to force him off.

 

[Mickeza]

I think we are talking about different incidents? I’m talking last lap, Perez had retired by then

No it’s the right incident. But when Perez came back at Lewis after he had overtaken him similar to how Lewis was trying on Max he went very wide left - I thought there was enough gap for Lewis to do the same on Max.

 

[Abizzz]

Imagine being in a race where your 11 seconds ahead of your competition and essentially your cruising to victory

But an incident occurs with someone way way behind where you are, so everyone slows down until the incident has been cleared up

the race restarts but that competitor you were a moment ago 11 seconds ahead of, is now side by side with you ready to race out the last lap with you

Anyone who thinks that’s fair or right, regardless too your thoughts on Hamilton, private message me, I have a number for the Broadmoor sectioning unit you very much need, quite urgently too

That part isn't fair, but it's always been a part of racing. Every racer has benefited and lost from that, it evens itself out over time. The making up the rules on the go to decide races is the whats new.

 

[RoadTrip]

No it’s the right incident. But when Perez came back at Lewis after he had overtaken him similar to how Lewis was trying on Max he went very wide left - I thought there was enough gap for Lewis to do the same on Max.

Nah there wasn’t. Max hugged the line until Hamilton came alongside and then ushered them to the outside.

 

[Jerch]

Maybe worth rewriting that to give your real view on this? That made no sense what you wrote.

Well that was basically official answer on Merc protest.

 

[Red Shorts]

Well that was basically official answer on Merc protest.

If thats what they said then no wonder they had their protest thrown out.

 

[Igor Drefljak]

Imagine being in a race where your 11 seconds ahead of your competition and essentially your cruising to victory

But an incident occurs with someone way way behind where you are, so everyone slows down until the incident has been cleared up

the race restarts but that competitor you were a moment ago 11 seconds ahead of, is now side by side with you ready to race out the last lap with you

Anyone who thinks that’s fair or right, regardless too your thoughts on Hamilton, private message me, I have a number for the Broadmoor sectioning unit you very much need, quite urgently too

Also, imagine being in a race were by your own mistake you go off the track and ruin your front wing and other bits, effectively ruining your race, but a red flag at the perfect time means you get the opportunity to take that car to the pits, repair all the damage and get second place

 

[Mickeza]

Nah there wasn’t. Max hugged the line until Hamilton came alongside and then ushered them to the outside.

Yeah just watched it back. No room. No is the answer then - absolutely nothing Lewis could do.

 

[Mickeza]

Also, imagine being in a race were by your own mistake you go off the train and ruin your front wing and other bits, effectively ruining your face, but a red flag at the perfect time means you get the opportunity to take that car to the pits, repair all the damage and get second place

Did they change the rules mid-race for that?

 

[Igor Drefljak]

Did they change the rules mid-race for that?

That wasn't the point he made

 

[TheLiverBird]

verThe making up the rules on the go to decide races is the whats new.

And it was so Spectacularly obvious too

it’s like they thought the world wasn’t watching

 

[ForlansHair]

The stewarding has been a shambles all season. Right from the opening race in Bahrain they ignored track limits until 40 laps in they realised Lewis was gaining an advantage in turn 4. Since then it’s just got worse and worse, Brazil, Saudi and now this.

Having said that, as a Ferrari-supporting neutral I feel Max deserved it this year. The Red Bull line of ‘finally some luck’ is slightly stretching it, but I do feel the racing gods had been more on Lewis’ side until now.

Max becomes the first driver since Lewis in 2008 to win the title in a car not winning the constructors, so you can say he achieved something rarely done in the sport and won without having statistically the best car. Immense job by him all year.

 

[The Hilton]

and the team principles need to behave and stop trying to pressure the Race Director.
Wolf and Horner were both guilty.

Verstappen is the Champion, he did what he needed to do.

Yeah he did, although what he needed to do was just to grab the trophy that was placed into his hands.

You're right though that the principles constantly bugging Masi was bad, but the guy is a joke, he's been out of his depth all year, making up rules today was just the icing on the incompetent cake.

 

[dbs235]

So away from today's race, a question for those more informed than me. Why is it that the lower teams often have car issues and the top teams don't. Now I'm aware that money must be the answer. But in this day an age surely all teams have enough money to be at a minimum level that the car doesn't randomly die mid race? And would weak teams now not have better technology than top teams did years ago, so why are they still having so many issues?

 

[Cassidy]

But if they had said from the start that the lapped cars could overtake the safety car, and knowing that Red Bull were on fresh rubber, then Merc could (would) have done the same, knowing that otherwise they'd be at a disadvantage.

The track position was lost because they changed their mind, at the last minute, about the lapped cars.

They couldn't say it from the start unless you expected them to know the precise moment when the track would be cleared.

 

[RoadTrip]

Your race director should be someone who is composed in high pressure situations. After all that’s why he has that job and no one else. The highest such job in all of motor sports.

I honestly think the moment he sent out the safety car, he should have known exactly what would play out if he let it run this way. A made up last lap or two. Or a safety car finish. At which point he should have had the foresight to red flag the race there. It was a hefty hit right on the racing line. Cars were spread out in the field. It wouldn’t be unheard of.

OK yes Lewis would lose his advantage but that is just part of the sport, happens to everyone. But F1 would have got it’s showdown, 5 lap sprint. And it would have at least been a fair fight.

 

[spiriticon]

So away from today's race, a question for those more informed than me. Why is it that the lower teams often have car issues and the top teams don't. Now I'm aware that money must be the answer. But in this day an age surely all teams have enough money to be at a minimum level that the car doesn't randomly die mid race? And would weak teams now not have better technology than top teams did years ago, so why are they still having so many issues?

Because the top teams are getting faster, so they have to match their pace. You don't want to be minutes behind the leaders per lap. It looks bad.

If you take a Williams engine and run it at half the speed of the Mercedes, I'm sure it would last all season long.

 

[RoadTrip]

So away from today's race, a question for those more informed than me. Why is it that the lower teams often have car issues and the top teams don't. Now I'm aware that money must be the answer. But in this day an age surely all teams have enough money to be at a minimum level that the car doesn't randomly die mid race? And would weak teams now not have better technology than top teams did years ago, so why are they still having so many issues?

In fairness this really doesn’t happen that much.

 

[ArjenIsM3]

That wasn't the point he made

You're right, he just described a regular SC / red flag situation. Mercedes have benefited plenty from those. And from other things such as regulation changes (pitstop regs for example). Luck has been on their side more often than not this season. But I can understand why they feel they got fecked over here. It's bad stewarding once again.

 

[dbs235]

In fairness this really doesn’t happen that much.

Maybe it's just a feeling, but seems like 2-3 of the lower drivers per race will have to retire at some point because of a car issue.

 

[VorZakone]

Was Mercedes' strategy affected by the way? Feels like they may have gambled on the 5 cars taking too much time from Verstappen to overtake Lewis. If they knew Verstappen would be allowed to just skip those in front of him, obviously they wouldn't let Hamilton become a sitting duck.

 

[NieThePiet]

Lets not forget the most important thing:

Kubica finished 20th this season.
So Mazepin finished 21th in a season with 20 cars.

 

[WeePat]

Just talking about racing for a minute (god forbid), is there a way that Lewis could have defended that corner? Max's only passing strategy on that track seems to be diving down the inside on those tight corners, could Lewis have done better to defend on 'the lap'?

Possibly but honestly, he was a sitting duck anyway. He wouldn't have held Max off all the way to the end of the lap.

 

[groovyalbert]

What's really shite about all this is that Max genuinely didn't win today. There was no hail mary, there was no great tactic or driving move. It was simply circumstance and a mad decision. Lewis would genuinely have had a better chance had he just been in 2nd for most of the race and decided to attack later on.

 

[The Hilton]

Also, imagine being in a race were by your own mistake you go off the track and ruin your front wing and other bits, effectively ruining your race, but a red flag at the perfect time means you get the opportunity to take that car to the pits, repair all the damage and get second place

It's not the same unfortunately. If you get done by the rules, even dodgy ones like repairs under red flag, it can be harsh but it's within the rules you signed up for.

The race director literally making up rules isn't acceptable for any sport. Even if Max is your guy, and you're celebrating his win, I'm sure we can all agree that Masi has been a complete mess this year, totally inconsistent, and shouldn't be anywhere near the directors chair.

 

[ForlansHair]

Was Mercedes' strategy affected by the way? Feels like they may have gambled on the 5 cars taking too much time from Verstappen to overtake Lewis. If they knew Verstappen would be allowed to just skip those in front of him, obviously they wouldn't let Hamilton become a sitting duck.

There isn’t much Mercedes could have done imo. It’s why Lewis was swearing like mad when Latifi crashed, any sort of restart would likely mean Max was WC. If they had pit, Max would’ve been ahead and it’s likely he would have held him off. Much fresher hards than what Lewis was defending with and Perez managed to keep Lewis behind for a lap on more shot tyres

 

[MTF]

Was Mercedes' strategy affected by the way? Feels like they may have gambled on the 5 cars taking too much time from Verstappen to overtake Lewis. If they knew Verstappen would be allowed to just skip those in front of him, obviously they wouldn't let Hamilton become a sitting duck.

The lapped cars getting out of the way is the standard procedure (but all the cars, not just a select few), but they probably thought that they shouldn't gamble in giving up 1st place (Verstappen would not have pitted) and then having the risk of the race ending under SC. Can you imagine what people would be saying about them now if that's how it had played out?

I was commenting during the race that the car in 2nd always has a strategy advantage when it comes to SC/VSC because they can make their decision with the added information of what the car in 1st has decided. But maybe teams running in 1st should start pre-empting that a bit, kind of taking the game to another level... as in you know what you'll do, you know what the 2nd place will do as a response, if that were to hand them a tyre advantage maybe be willing to trade track position for the tyre advantage. That would have applied not to this final SC that was so close to the end, but to the decision not to pit Hamilton under the VSC.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Maybe it's just a feeling, but seems like 2-3 of the lower drivers per race will have to retire at some point because of a car issue.

teams with lower budgets can’t replace worn parts as often as the bigger teams.

Also with this year being the last year 90% of these parts will be used, they obviously didn’t make an excess of parts to have laying around.

They might also be having to strain the cars a lot more to gain speed compared to the top cars that are faster with ease, if that makes sense? like an amateur sprinter going up against usain bolt.

Was Mercedes' strategy affected by the way? Feels like they may have gambled on the 5 cars taking too much time from Verstappen to overtake Lewis. If they knew Verstappen would be allowed to just skip those in front of him, obviously they wouldn't let Hamilton become a sitting duck.

Mercedes we’re likely going to be screwed either way, but they played it safe in the hope the safety car wouldn’t be finished before the end.

If they pitted hamilton and max stayed out, and the safety car never ended - then max wins.

That’s another random nature that at any moment they can decide to change the whole course of the race.

Just look to the last race in saudi arabia. they first put out a safety car, norris pitted expecting to get a cheap tyre change, then after 4 laps they decided to red flag the race and he went from 6th to 14th place and couldn’t recover.

The random nature of it and not actually knowing what’s going to happen makes it so difficult.

You actually don’t want to be in the lead at that point.

IMO though mercedes probably should have gambled and let hamilton have it in his own hands. instead they gave him a knife in a gun fight

 

[dbs235]

teams with lower budgets can’t replace worn parts as often as the bigger teams.

Also with this year being the last year 90% of these parts will be used, they obviously didn’t make an excess of parts to have laying around.

They might also be having to strain the cars a lot more to gain speed compared to the top cars that are faster with ease, if that makes sense? like an amateur sprinter going up against usain bolt.

Yeah that makes sense, cheers. I knew it would be to do with money, but I always pictured that everyone should be rich enough for it to be a very rare occurance.

 

[Abizzz]

Mercedes we’re likely going to be screwed either way, but they played it safe in the hope the safety car wouldn’t be finished before the end.

If they pitted hamilton and max stayed out, and the safety car never ended - then max wins.

Is anyone under the illusion that the race wouldn't have ended under the safety car if Lewis had pitted and Max hadn't? There's no point applying hindsight when the very person conducting the race wants a result.

 

[diarm]

Are people suggesting that if the race director had told Mercedes that he was going to allow the 5 cars between Verstappen and him but no others to unlap themselves a couple of corners before a free for all final lap, they wouldn't have pitted Lewis and put softs on?

Don't be silly.

 

[ForlansHair]

Are people suggesting that if the race director had told Mercedes that he was going to allow the 5 cars between Verstappen and him but no others to unlap themselves a couple of corners before a free for all final lap, they wouldn't have pitted Lewis and put softs on?

Don't be silly.

No, but under that scenario Max would’ve been a big favourite. New soft v new soft with no DRS, the chance of a Lewis win would be very small.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Is anyone under the illusion that the race wouldn't have ended under the safety car if Lewis had pitted and Max hadn't? There's no point applying hindsight when the very person conducting the race wants a result.

i’m not quite sure what you mean, but at best case it would have been hamilton having 1 lap to overtake verstappen, worse case he wouldn’t have even got given the chance.

It’s just frustrating that it happened so late in the race it gave them no chance to stick or twist really. if he had 3-4 laps to do something they’d have probably gambled.

Are people suggesting that if the race director had told Mercedes that he was going to allow the 5 cars between Verstappen and him but no others to unlap themselves a couple of corners before a free for all final lap, they wouldn't have pitted Lewis and put softs on?

Don't be silly.

no, it’s more the fact the rule is you either let them all go passed, or none at all.

if they didn’t let any cars go then hamilton would have got away, if they let them all pass the last lap would have finished before the end.

they decided to do something that’s never been doing before and only let the cars go between max and lewis. it’s a joke - but they got their box office finish they were desperate for

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

Is anyone under the illusion that the race wouldn't have ended under the safety car if Lewis had pitted and Max hadn't? There's no point applying hindsight when the very person conducting the race wants a result.

It kind of makes decisions even harder in future because you literally don’t know what the race director might do

 

[MTF]

Are people suggesting that if the race director had told Mercedes that he was going to allow the 5 cars between Verstappen and him but no others to unlap themselves a couple of corners before a free for all final lap, they wouldn't have pitted Lewis and put softs on?

Don't be silly.

Huh? The race director doesn't make this decision (which is a bad one) until later. Verstappen pits at the start of the SC because he has nothing to lose, but once Hamilton doesn't pit he catches back up to Hamilton and the backmarkers. If you pit Hamilton after a few SC laps you give him fresh tyres but you also put him behind Max and possibly behind Sainz and other cars. You almost always need to pit at the start of a SC to make it worthwhile.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

i’m not quite sure what you mean, but at best case it would have been hamilton having 1 lap to overtake verstappen, worse case he wouldn’t have even got given the chance.

It’s just frustrating that it happened so late in the race it gave them no chance to stick or twist really. if he had 3-4 laps to do something they’d have probably gambled.

no, it’s more the fact the rule is you either let them all go passed, or none at all.

if they didn’t let any cars go then hamilton would have got away, if they let them all pass the last lap would have finished before the end.

they decided to do something that’s never been doing before and only let the cars go between max and lewis. it’s a joke - but they got their box office finish they were desperate for

What amazed me even more was just how quickly this decision was taken. So masi didn’t do it for 3 laps but then suddenly out of nowhere he did that in like 10 seconds everyone had lapped and Mercedes’ & Lewis had no time to even think

 

[The Hilton]

Huh? The race director doesn't make this decision (which is a bad one) until later. Verstappen pits at the start of the SC because he has nothing to lose, but once Hamilton doesn't pit he catches back up to Hamilton and the backmarkers. If you pit Hamilton after a few SC laps you give him fresh tyres but you also put him behind Max and possibly behind Sainz and other cars. You almost always need to pit at the start of a SC to make it worthwhile.

Merc didn't pit Lewis because the rules were (are) clear - either Max had equally worn hards, a load of back markers to pass in a single lap, or the race finishes under the safety car.

If they had any idea that Max would be given a free run at Lewis with brand new softs, they would have brought him in straight away and risked the potential loss of track position.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Genuine question here - putting aside all the nonsense at the end, wasn't Merc's strategy absolutely awful? Didn't understand covering up Verstappen as that essentially eliminated the tyre advantage they had coming into the race - and it put Hamilton behind Checo. Whilst I think it's fair to say they couldn't have expected Checo to delay Lewis to the extent that he did, Checo is clearly one of the top wheel-to-wheel racers in the paddock and has previous vs. Lewis at Baku and Turkey. The gap Checo eroded prevented Lewis from pitting safely under the virtual safety car...

So I guess my question is would having a set of hards with ~20 fewer laps on them have made a significant difference? Max won by 2 seconds in the end but obviously was helped by being able to overtake early in the lap - and if Lewis had been able to get to the straights he might have held his own given there was no DRS post-SC.

I suppose this is a bit of hindsight armchairing but can't help but feel like Lewis has been let down a bit by the conservative approach at Merc (obviously paling in comparison to the farcical circumstances leading to the last lap).

 

[Gringo]

In fairness this really doesn’t happen that much.

What does seem to happen is every time it's a drivers last race they have a DNF!? So strange

 

[ZIDANE]

It wasn’t the best way to decide it but this season has been like that, to watch Toto like this after dominating the last 8 years was amusing