and that shouldn't factor into the race director's mind because that's race strategy for individual teams.
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and that shouldn't factor into the race director's mind because that's race strategy for individual teams.
Exactly. SC rendering Lewis' massive lead to nothing is not unprecedented, nor is sorting out the lapped cars and restarting the race. Team Mercedes definitely considered that, but had decided in the end that there 'probably' won't be a restart.
The only thing in the race director's mind should be to ensure the safety of drivers and stewards within the spirit of the racing regulations. There was nothing wrong with the safety car, but there was a lot wrong with the procedures that followed after deployment of the car.
I don't think anybody is arguing with the safety car. That is pure bad luck for Lewis and it was needed.
Whether Lewis was pitted or not is irrelevant, because the restart of the race was fudged, not the actual safety car deployment itself. The restart of the race was fudged because the race director removed all obstacles between the 1st and 2nd place cars, and kept all the obstacles between the 2nd and 3rd place cars as well as kept all the obstacles between other cars further down the grid. This in effect, was not a level playing field between the whole grid as the race restarted. This is a fundamental sporting error.
I don't think anybody is arguing with the safety car. That is pure bad luck for Lewis and it was needed.
Whether Lewis was pitted or not is irrelevant, because the restart of the race was fudged, not the actual safety car deployment itself. The restart of the race was fudged because the race director removed all obstacles between the 1st and 2nd place cars, and kept all the obstacles between the 2nd and 3rd place cars as well as kept all the obstacles between other cars further down the grid. This in effect, was not a level playing field between the whole grid as the race restarted. This is a fundamental sporting error.
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Exactly, the whole problem is the race director set up the last lap for show, as entertainment not sport. Not even good entertainment mind as anyone who watches F1 regularly knew there was practically 0 chance Verstappen didn't overtake Ham in that situation. He could even make a clumsy move as Ham couldn't afford the crash either. All the lapped cards should have been let past and then the safety car in the lap after, like how it has been done a million times before.
Personally I had really enjoyed this year as the first proper title battle in years, and had been hoping Ver would win, but the manner in which it was done was a disgrace. The race director damaged the sporting integrity for what he thought would be a more entertaining finish, you only have to see the reactions from all the drivers, there's not one person involved in the sport who doesn't know that was a farcical call my Massi, and that includes Horner and Verstappen.
The fact that he made such an obvious breach of the rules/convention at the very least, in order to massively favour one driver really starts to bring into question some other choices that where made throughout the year by Massi. Both in favour of Lewis and Max, I really feel like Massi/ the stewards where trying their best to keep the title close for drama purposes only. Some of the calls like no penalty for Max in Brazil where bizarre, but it makes sense when you see them trying to manufacture a title battle as close as possible.
I've only done so once after reading what I perceived to be a viewpoint I just can't understand. But I should not have resorted to name calling and I apologise. I was just incredulous when I read that.
'My point wasn't that I wanted the controversy, but that I wanted the race to end in a race, even if that last lap was a race because of a controversial call.' I just don't see how in any world having a controversial call dictate the entire fate of a whole season is preferable to the race ending under safety car. It makes a mockery of the whole sport. Give the multitude of actual fans and drivers of this sport a choice between what happened and the race ending under safety car conditions 9/10 would say safety car. Red Bull would have had complaints but not so severe that they would be disillusioned with the result. I just don't see how any fan of the sport, apart from those who support Max and Red Bull, could see what transpired as being in anyway the right or preferable call.
All the incidents you name are part and parcel of the sport. Pirelli misfunctioning could have happened to anyone - it's akin to the Sunderland goal against Liverpool where it deflected off a beachball. The worst luck in the world, but it could have happened to any team and its not against the laws of the game (the laws have now been changed as a result - Pirelli were then under scrutiny to test their tires as a result). And again other incidents were either racing incidents or bad refereeing. This was someone making a decision out of the confines of the sporting code. 48.13 is not written to dictate that you can ignore prior regulations - 48.12 is carefully worded to allow the clerk to call the safety car in later than a lap after the last car unlaps itslef 'if they deem it safer' to do so. NOT bring it in and ignore previos regulations. The other one 50 something or other which gives the Race director the right to overrule the clerk, is again in the name of safety not in the name of 'letting them race'. Yes teams pushed for races to finish in green conditions, but based on the reactions of other drivers again who called it 'not right', and 'fecked up', this is not what they meant.
'I think Masi would make the same call if Lewis pitted, and Max stayed out. Honestly, I do.' And that would have been equally as wrong and 'but Masi cannot let whether one car has pitted and the other haven't be a factor in his decision-making.' yes I agree. But there wasn't a difficult decision to make. There were two decisions under the regulations - start the racing again at the beginning of lap 58 with no cars having unlapped themselves OR end the race under a safety car. Nothing apart from the regulations should have influenced his decision.
'That decision to stay out is as much a part of racing as everything you mention in the first part of your post. At the time of the crash, Mercedes wouldn't know for certain the race would end under a safety car. They took a risk, like Red Bull did, and none of that should factor into the race director's decision-making. Considering the number of laps left, I'll agree that Mercedes' choice was the safer option in their situation. Red Bull could afford to take the risk they did, given the circumstances.' I mean just to this whole point, yes it was a decision made by Mercedes and part of racing, but they made the correct call. It was a risk, the car could have been cleared earlier and they would have been fecked. But they made the 100% correct call. Under the regulations Lewis would and should have won.
No one really thinks, apart from those with bias colouring their view that the FIA or MAssi doctored the outcome out of a desire to see Max being champion. But they doctored the outcome purely for the spectacle. It was WWE. IF you want manufactured excitement then fair enough. But it's odd that your actual criticisms of Masi come in him not unlapping the car earlier rather than the monumental feck up and you just keep giving him the benefit of the doubt. Yes I loved this season too, everything up until lap 56 of the final race was dramatic, it was arguably the greatest season we've seen ever (at least for the younger generation) however for a lot of fans it's been tainted. Max 100% deserved to win, over the season he was the more consistent driver and I would argue that was the greatest season of driving I've seen. BUT Lewis in a sense deserved to win it more, not out of ability or anything like that, but because the rules were not followed and it was stolen from him by one of the worst decisions this sport has ever seen.
This is pointless. Other posters have called you out for this as well, but you're trying to defend the decision using smoke and mirrors, acting like it didn't change the result (it did), or that Mercedes are to blame themselves for their strategy (even though they judged it perfectly based on the actual rules).
We get it, you're pleased with the result, and you found the final lap farce exciting because your guy was handed an easy overtake. Those of us who care about the sport over Max recognise how awful the precedent is that's been set.
Putting the events during the race on Sunday aside, I'm curious as to why Mercedes have elected not to appeal.
Was pressure exerted by the FIA citing that any further action (valid or otherwise) would damage further the reputation of the sport?
I do think they had reasonable grounds to have the result overturned so there must have been something said to someone to alter their intentions since Sunday.
Was pressure exerted by the FIA citing that any further action (valid or otherwise) would damage further the reputation of the sport?
I do think they had reasonable grounds to have the result overturned so there must have been something said to someone to alter their intentions since Sunday.
Been in a rabbit hole watching reaction videos of the last lap. While it was a messed up decision, F1 got what they wanted which was a crap ton of excitement. Makes me wonder if they will do what NASCAR has done (and overdone to a fault) which is adjust the rules to try to search for more ways to bring the other teams up and encourage closer finishes.
I am also slightly disappointed in the withdrawal of the appeal because I genuinely wanted a legal and detailed explanation of the events, regardless of who is the champion or not.
If the FIA were forced to admit that the 'god-clause' does indeed give the race director full powers to shape the flow and story of a race, and that teams and fans should have been aware of this and expect this, then ok, I know where I stand on the matter.
If the FIA were forced to admit that the 'god-clause' does indeed give the race director full powers to shape the flow and story of a race, and that teams and fans should have been aware of this and expect this, then ok, I know where I stand on the matter.
In the spirit of your post, I have a question, not aimed at you, but an open question.
If Mercedes register an appeal after the race, regarding application of the rules, by the officials, which they did, why does that in any way, require the input of Red Bull?
The complaint was of a regulatory nature. It is between Mercedes and the FIA.
There's no need for anybody else to have their opinion heard, in the processing of the appeal.
If the solution then affects someone else (Red Bull?), that is grounds for a separate appeal, and hearing on their behalf.
It does exist but it's never been used before.
It's essentially the 'big red button' the president has for setting of nukes. it's there, but is never used and shouldn't be.
We all know why it was done. I bet the FIA / Formula 1 execs in general were absolutely creaming themselves with how it went down. I've never seen F1 generate so much traffic outside of the closer circle.
The usuals getting their daily meltdowns in. Thread is definitely like groundhog day.
The FIA's new stewardship led by freshly elected president Mohammed Ben Sulayem will meet to discuss the case around Lewis Hamilton's absence from Thursday's prize-giving gala in Paris, with zero tolerance for the Mercedes driver if he is found to have breached F1's sporting rules.
Hamilton, along with Mercedes team boss Toto Wolff, was conspicuously absent from the governing body's traditional end-of-season award ceremonial, a snub that reflected the pair's anger of the events that unfolded at the end of F1's title decider in Abu Dhabi and which were orchestrated by FIA race director Michael Masi.
Hamilton's deliberate absence is a breach of the FIA's sporting regulations and could imply a sanction for the Mercedes driver if the FIA chooses to pursue the case.
Article 6.6 of F1's sporting rules clearly lays out the law: "The drivers finishing first, second and third in the Championship must be present at the annual FIA Prize Giving ceremony."
"At the end of the day, rules are rules," commented new FIA president Mohammed Ben Sulayem in his first meeting with the media.
Pity Masi did not do that.
I agree with Lewis, I would not have gone, so it will cost him a few quid, worth it I say.
https://f1i.com/news/429138-fias-su...Ux6YUmhhMeKYaZVp4pD5nupxSVt3Z6r8_MxQWwSZYqcCs
Hamilton, along with Mercedes team boss Toto Wolff, was conspicuously absent from the governing body's traditional end-of-season award ceremonial, a snub that reflected the pair's anger of the events that unfolded at the end of F1's title decider in Abu Dhabi and which were orchestrated by FIA race director Michael Masi.
Hamilton's deliberate absence is a breach of the FIA's sporting regulations and could imply a sanction for the Mercedes driver if the FIA chooses to pursue the case.
Article 6.6 of F1's sporting rules clearly lays out the law: "The drivers finishing first, second and third in the Championship must be present at the annual FIA Prize Giving ceremony."
"At the end of the day, rules are rules," commented new FIA president Mohammed Ben Sulayem in his first meeting with the media.
Pity Masi did not do that.
I agree with Lewis, I would not have gone, so it will cost him a few quid, worth it I say.
https://f1i.com/news/429138-fias-su...Ux6YUmhhMeKYaZVp4pD5nupxSVt3Z6r8_MxQWwSZYqcCs
Mohammed Ben Sulayem - is he even a former racer , what's his connection to the sport?
That's hilariously hypocritical and tone deaf
Long career as a rally driver, albeit not a very good one outside of the middle east.
What was your reason to immediately question if he was a former racer and if he had a connection with the sport, by the way?
I don't know how they build up the strength to keep coming back recycling the same arguments.
Credit to them though. I was lucky enough to get all my anger out on the same evening.
Basically the equivalent of match fixing. Think F1 has lost its credibility massively. The sport interpersonally for me is repetitive and a bit of a chore to observe, I only watched highlights this season to see the finale of the championship. The only influence to a race's conclusion should be the input of the drivers. Nothing more nothing less. F1 is right at the low end of the pile due to the interference of the FIA.
Think the circumstances of the result is not only a disappointment to fans but both respective drivers. The result is not the issue, either Max or Lewis would be victorious, it's the details which has ruined a great opportunity for the sport to experience growth which such an entertaining campaign. The hierarchy have showed to be worse than FIFA who at the very least didn't make an open show of their corruption.
FIA are a utter farce if they try to penalise lewis they need to penalise masi first.
Technically Lewis did not finish first, second and third. So Merc should be OK.
Because I have never heard of him - I expected the new president to be some well known name from the near past. He might be such of course, but I am not that big of a motorsport fan to know him.
Been in role hours and already sounds a dick.
"If there is any breach, there is no forgiveness in this," Ben Sulayem said.
Asked to clarify whether he was saying Hamilton would be penalised for not attending the gala, he said: "Forgiveness is always there. But rules are rules.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59705074
(and a PS.. Brazilian Fabiana Ecclestone - wife of former F1 boss Bernie Ecclestone - is new vice-president representing South America.)
"If there is any breach, there is no forgiveness in this," Ben Sulayem said.
Asked to clarify whether he was saying Hamilton would be penalised for not attending the gala, he said: "Forgiveness is always there. But rules are rules.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59705074
(and a PS.. Brazilian Fabiana Ecclestone - wife of former F1 boss Bernie Ecclestone - is new vice-president representing South America.)
Toto needs to stop talking and get on with life. It’s starting to get embarrassing for he and Lewis.
You lost and it wasn’t redbulls fault. Accept it and move on. Pissing and meaning about hard done by you are given the last 7 years of dominance is not a good look.
You lost and it wasn’t redbulls fault. Accept it and move on. Pissing and meaning about hard done by you are given the last 7 years of dominance is not a good look.
It would be stupid of the FIA to fine Hamilton for not turning up. They are better off letting it go, and letting the fans start to move on and focus on the next season. Fining him would just drag it all right back into the spot light, and make that all the focus of the lead in (even more than it will be already)
But.. but rules are rules...
Easy for someone on the internet to say stuff like that . This is what they live for and have spent the last year fighting for. Countless number of days & energy went into that title fight and to have it end like that is obviously not as simple as you think . What they did for 7 years is irrelevant to the conversation
Sorry if you misunderstood what I said…
He needs to get the feck over it and move on. He lost. Get over it
Most Max fans are Dutch and have only got in to F1 recently and haven’t a clue what they’re talking about, ignorance.
The Dutch F1 fans are blinded by their chauvinism. There’s no point arguing with ignorance, just ignore them
If the boot was on the other foot and Max was at the wrong end of the decision then we would never hear the end of it…
We are still talking in this day about Maradona's 'Hand of God' from how many years ago now?
Some things don't get forgotten so easily.
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The corruption continues...
This certainly seems to be the case for some Max fans. Not all, but a significant number.
Youve been bitching and moaning about Hamilton since you joined the Caf. Take your own advice.
Unlike the unchauvinistic British fans I presume ?
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If anything UK fans have been blinded for few decades!
At least them I can sort of understand. It's their first WDC winner, I'm sure I'd be proud and happy too.
And the one thing I have to keep reminding myself: It was Masi and FIA who fecked over Hamilton and decided the wdc. Not Max. He took the chances presented to him, something any racer worth their salt would do. I had disliked some of his antics before but it really isn't his fault.
It's the redbull fanboys which I completely detest.
Rustig, Engelsman, wees aardig
