F1 2022 Season

rimaldo said:
bernie ecclestones (grandfather of f1) used to ensure that hamilton always won races and championships as this helped to cover up racist things he was responsible for in his past (one of his grandchildren was hitler.) he would often be heard to say “how can i be racist? i fix things so an untalented black driver wins all the time in the fastest car.”

then he got so old and so racist that he sold his f1 company to someone else who isn’t that bothered about hamilton winning all the time. so the mercedes car is slow now without all the outside interference and hamilton is being shown up for being really slow, even compared to a teammate whose face was clearly made in a factory.

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:lol:
 
In regards to the Mercedes powertrain. Its confusing as apparently lewis was only 2kph slower on the main straight than max was and max was supposedly 10kph quicker on that main straight than leclerc, due to ferrari running more wing.

However lewis said that the Haas of Kmag was unbelievably quick when he re-took his position from lewis down the main straight with drs.

So its difficult to get a true picture. It really could be that the Mercedes powertrain cars are struggling with porposing and therefore its a coincidence that they are down in the grid order.

Or their engines arent as powerful. Hard to tell. Wont get a true picture until porposing is resolved for the Mercedes powertrain teams.
 
dinostar77 said:
In regards to the Mercedes powertrain. Its confusing as apparently lewis was only 2kph slower on the main straight than max was and max was supposedly 10kph quicker on that main straight than leclerc, due to ferrari running more wing.

However lewis said that the Haas of Kmag was unbelievably quick when he re-took his position from lewis down the main straight with drs.

So its difficult to get a true picture. It really could be that the Mercedes powertrain cars are struggling with porposing and therefore its a coincidence that they are down in the grid order.

Or their engines arent as powerful. Hard to tell. Wont get a true picture until porposing is resolved for the Mercedes powertrain teams.
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It’s impossible to tell because it is all linked.

To try and control the bouncing, they must make alterations which are inconsistent with the most “effective” way to run their car. Other teams have found a way of doing this without compromising performance. Mercedes haven’t. Which means they might be more draggy and in turn more slower.

It seems easy enough because other teams have fixed it but it’s really not. Some of these cars are designed fundamentally differently and so perhaps that fix doesn’t work on the Mercedes’. Perhaps the Mercedes’ engine is packed with weight distribution in a way that pronounces the porpoising. It could really be anything. And we can speculate but we just won’t know.
 
WeePat said:
He was whining about Leclerc doing that to him later on. Utterly shameless this guy :lol:
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He closed up in the first sector after the virtual safety car was called off. He played it smart. He dropped off Leclerec by 3-4 seconds and picked up the pace to carry more power into the first corner, he is just about 1.4 secs behind at the DRS detection zone but is literally at le clercs diffuser in the end of that straight.

Don't think that was unfair at all, just a better use of his VSC pace.
 
dinostar77 said:
In regards to the Mercedes powertrain. Its confusing as apparently lewis was only 2kph slower on the main straight than max was and max was supposedly 10kph quicker on that main straight than leclerc, due to ferrari running more wing.

However lewis said that the Haas of Kmag was unbelievably quick when he re-took his position from lewis down the main straight with drs.

So its difficult to get a true picture. It really could be that the Mercedes powertrain cars are struggling with porposing and therefore its a coincidence that they are down in the grid order.

Or their engines arent as powerful. Hard to tell. Wont get a true picture until porposing is resolved for the Mercedes powertrain teams.
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Was Lewis using DRS and tucked up right behind a car when that speed was recorded? Top speed in a race doesn’t always paint a true picture. It’s the one in qualifying that matters (except for when a team mate gives a toe)
The early evidence points to Merc engine being down on Ferrari, redbull and on par with Renault
 
hobbers said:
Because the Ferrari had slightly better race pace on high and medium fuel, and yet a Red Bull won the race…
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Not really, Perez was clearly in the lead with high and medium fuel and he was maintaining a fixed lead with Le Clerc. Also, Max was maintaining a healthy gap to Sainz.

Leclerc had good pace throughout the race and was driving well, but doesn't wipe away the fact that he was lucky to get the race lead. Checo seemed to have been so deflated with the VSC/SC that he never got back to his earlier pace.
 
rpitroda said:
It’s impossible to tell because it is all linked.

To try and control the bouncing, they must make alterations which are inconsistent with the most “effective” way to run their car. Other teams have found a way of doing this without compromising performance. Mercedes haven’t. Which means they might be more draggy and in turn more slower.

It seems easy enough because other teams have fixed it but it’s really not. Some of these cars are designed fundamentally differently and so perhaps that fix doesn’t work on the Mercedes’. Perhaps the Mercedes’ engine is packed with weight distribution in a way that pronounces the porpoising. It could really be anything. And we can speculate but we just won’t know.
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With Mercedes it's all aero related, and still with the floor. They mentioned this back in the final testing in Bahrain and they've made no changes so difficult to see, it's just this latest circuit is all speed and made the problems even more visible.

The more I watch the cars, the more I think the Mercedes powered cars are a combination of aero and weight issues. Alfa are the only team that is running ballast on the car (make into that what you will).
 
rimaldo said:
bernie ecclestones (grandfather of f1) used to ensure that hamilton always won races and championships as this helped to cover up racist things he was responsible for in his past (one of his grandchildren was hitler.) he would often be heard to say “how can i be racist? i fix things so an untalented black driver wins all the time in the fastest car.”

then he got so old and so racist that he sold his f1 company to someone else who isn’t that bothered about hamilton winning all the time. so the mercedes car is slow now without all the outside interference and hamilton is being shown up for being really slow, even compared to a teammate whose face was clearly made in a factory.

george-russell-mercedes-twitter-1200x630.jpg
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Ronaldo on fire haha


Edit : Rimaldo , stupid auto correct
 
dinostar77 said:
In regards to the Mercedes powertrain. Its confusing as apparently lewis was only 2kph slower on the main straight than max was and max was supposedly 10kph quicker on that main straight than leclerc, due to ferrari running more wing.

However lewis said that the Haas of Kmag was unbelievably quick when he re-took his position from lewis down the main straight with drs.

So its difficult to get a true picture. It really could be that the Mercedes powertrain cars are struggling with porposing and therefore its a coincidence that they are down in the grid order.

Or their engines arent as powerful. Hard to tell. Wont get a true picture until porposing is resolved for the Mercedes powertrain teams.
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There is nothing wrong with their powertrain in my opinion. Many things affect top speed. Most of all drag levels. Williams made a shit car, Aston martin and Mercedes made a car thats very affected by porpoising and Mclaren seem to have some aero issues after the brake duct had to be changed. They keep telling you people the engine is fine. Its the cars that are shite
 
F-Red said:
With Mercedes it's all aero related, and still with the floor. They mentioned this back in the final testing in Bahrain and they've made no changes so difficult to see, it's just this latest circuit is all speed and made the problems even more visible.

The more I watch the cars, the more I think the Mercedes powered cars are a combination of aero and weight issues. Alfa are the only team that is running ballast on the car (make into that what you will).
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I was thinking the same, all of their problems is aero, not getting the porpoising sorted out, lack of wind tunnel time, not yet convinced the zero side pods are helping or hindering.
Yes other teams are bouncing around, but looks like Mercedes is the worst.
Lewis and his team got their set up dredfully wrong, where has Russell got his right.
A couple of weeks before Australia, can they get it sorted before then, I hope so and start to challenge, 3 teams fighting can only be good for the fans.
 
I'll be amazed if they can catch up during the season. Has a team ever overcome such a deficit??
 
Gringo said:
I'll be amazed if they can catch up during the season. Has a team ever overcome such a deficit??
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Mclaren in 09. That thing went from winning a world title to one of the worst defending champion cars ever built, after mid season it was winning a few races. I doubt they can win the title but I think they can match the others midseason.
 
Rooney1987 said:
Mclaren in 09. That thing went from winning a world title to one of the worst defending champion cars ever built, after mid season it was winning a few races. I doubt they can win the title but I think they can match the others midseason.
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I remember that season , Lewis Hamilton and Heikki Kovalainen.
Both had a dreadful start to the season.
Heikki has 5 DNFs in the first 7 races, Lewis managed a 4th in race 4.
The second half of the season was better from Heikki finished all the races with points scored in 6.
Lewis did even better won 2, a second and 2, 3rds, 2 DNFs
McLaren became the first team to win a GP using a KERS-equipped car when Hamilton won the Hungarian Grand Prix.
I could not remember all the facts, Wiki is you friend.
 
Gringo said:
I'll be amazed if they can catch up during the season. Has a team ever overcome such a deficit??
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The car is there, it's just their running with a very high ride height to compensate for the porpoising. As soon as they can reduce that to the optimal level, without porpoising, then you'll see them back amongst it.

With the season being so open as well, I doubt we'll have an absolute runaway leader.
 
F-Red said:
The car is there, it's just their running with a very high ride height to compensate for the porpoising. As soon as they can reduce that to the optimal level, without porpoising, then you'll see them back amongst it.

With the season being so open as well, I doubt we'll have an absolute runaway leader.
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It must be incredibly frustrating as the simulation data etc all tell them they have a very fast car on their hands. The porposing nightmare is holding everything back till its resolved.

I dont think this is anywhere near as bad as Mclaren 09, as the wheel base on that car was out by 30mm or something and threw everything off. It wasnt a great car when they resolved the issue. Which was a massive expensive fix.

Theres every chance Mercedes might not be able to have their "cake and eat it", and be forced to change their suspension setup to something similar to RB. Not sure what ferrari are running suspension wise. Seeing as both ferrari and RB fixed their porposing issues very quickly, im guessing their suspension is doing something the Mercedes car suspension isnt.

If it was as simple as creating a air curtain on the edges of the floors on both sides, by generating mini vortices and sealing the floor as RB have done, im sure Mercedes would have done that by now. My uneducated guess is that something will have to change on the Mercedes suspension front. We will find out as all car changes for each race weekend are published by the fia under a new rule.

Anyway lets see what happens. It might be too late for lewis to join the title fight, but if he gets in and around leclerc and max on pure pace, a three way battle between them would be box office viewing.
 
F-Red said:
The car is there, it's just their running with a very high ride height to compensate for the porpoising. As soon as they can reduce that to the optimal level, without porpoising, then you'll see them back amongst it.

With the season being so open as well, I doubt we'll have an absolute runaway leader.
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The car isn't there. They're nearly 7 tenths behind in qualy trim and nearly 1 second a lap behind in race trim...

You're kidding yourself if you think this Mercedes will be "back amongst it" anytime soon.
 
Champ said:
When Hamilton wins, it's because of his superior driving skills.
Yet when he finishes down the order it's because of his car.
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Last season Lewis and Max had the best cars , where was Leclerc.
This season Max and Leclerc have the best cars and Lewis is nowhere.
You can have WC drivers, Lewis Max and Leclerc, but when you have a mare of a car how are you expect to compete with the WC drivers with good cars ?
You might not agree with me and thats fine, having a WC winner car is nothing without a WC winning driver and visa versa.
 
mariachi-19 said:
The car isn't there. They're nearly 7 tenths behind in qualy trim and nearly 1 second a lap behind in race trim...

You're kidding yourself if you think this Mercedes will be "back amongst it" anytime soon.
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I think they will nail the problem, but it won't be anytime soon, I think after the summer break, they won't be winning drivers or constructors, but I think they could win races.
 
mariachi-19 said:
The car isn't there. They're nearly 7 tenths behind in qualy trim and nearly 1 second a lap behind in race trim...

You're kidding yourself if you think this Mercedes will be "back amongst it" anytime soon.
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Quoted for later in the season, you've an awful habit of poor hot takes so I don't see this current take being any different.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
I think they will nail the problem, but it won't be anytime soon, I think after the summer break, they won't be winning drivers or constructors, but I think they could win races.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the Merc is still performing very well in low speed corners? Might be a dark horse for Monaco on that basis...
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the Merc is still performing very well in low speed corners? Might be a dark horse for Monaco on that basis...
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Ferrari's GPS had Mercedes down as the fastest in the slow corners at the Bahrain test, just couldn't get any speed on the high speed corner or straights without it bouncing like feck.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
You might be on to something , Monaco is not a happy track for Lewis.
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Yeah would be lovely to see him exorcise some of those demons from last year's catastrophe.

F-Red said:
Ferrari's GPS had Mercedes down as the fastest in the slow corners at the Bahrain test, just couldn't get any speed on the high speed corner or straights without it bouncing like feck.
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Thought I'd read that somewhere; cheers for clarifying! Suppose it's hard to make concrete predictions given we don't know how the new tyres will react, but that might give them a decent shot at Monaco if they can sort out their aero package somewhat.
 
Zarlak said:
Nonono, when Hamilton wins it's because he's lucky. Statistically the best driver of all time entirely down to luck.
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Thought it was down to him always having the best car?

And provided he isn't paired with a world class team mate like Nico or Button, of course.
 
fishfingers15 said:
Ronaldo on fire haha


Edit : Rimaldo , stupid auto correct
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Easy mistake, both love to stroke their ego and like to look at dicks in training.

Low and behold, there are plenty to find in this thread. :wenger:

Also, if Ronaldo's social media accounts were not managed by someone else, you would see he never uses any capital letter either.
 
F-Red said:
Ferrari's GPS had Mercedes down as the fastest in the slow corners at the Bahrain test, just couldn't get any speed on the high speed corner or straights without it bouncing like feck.
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Or you know, they were fully aware of that and set the car up to maximise those types of corners… because I mean it’s not like Racing car setup is a constant process of sacrifice for overall lap pace… oh wait…
 
The key thing really is that Red Bull and Ferrari are in a development arms race, on similarly restrictive budgets, starting on equal footing. Mercedes cant even be a part of that arms race until they sort their problems. It's going to seriously eat into their development time. So I dont see them being able to keep pace.

Last season they were 0.3 behind Red Bull in Bahrain on race pace, equal in Imola and had the faster car in Spain, Portugal and France. Compare to this season where, with no safety cars, they would have been lapped yesterday and over a minute behind in Bahrain.
 
mariachi-19 said:
If they’re nowhere near the title at the half wag point they’ll tank the season for the development time
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You could be right, I dont for one minute think they have a quick fix for the problems they have.
I would say Silverstone 3rd July is the target to solve their problems, 7 races, gives them 4 races before the summer holiday to try and claw back some points.
In all honesty I dont know, like most just throwing my 2p worth in
 
senorgregster said:
I wonder if Mercedes may consider the car setup from the first test track that had the larger sidepods. My memory is shot, was it Barcelona?
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I think everyone had the bouncing in the first test. You wonder why they have been running different setups as seen by qualifying results, well probably because they are pre-season testing still.

Ferrari and Red Bull fixed it for the second test but Mercedes didn’t focus on it as much and chased the downforce performance which turned out a mistake - I’m pretty sure I heard Toto say this in an interview.

I still stick to my theory that Merc will resolve it for Imola with an update and then they can focus on catching up the performance.
 
People also need to forget about development time turn around from 13 years ago where you could develop the car virtually unrestricted which was great, but it also lead to some issues such as Brawns loss of pace throughout 2009 as an example. Their advantage was massive early season but teams could virtually run wind tunnels 24/7 so they caught up relatively quickly. This is no longer the case
 
The thing is that the other teams aren't going to sit around waiting for Merc to solve their issues, they will only get faster as the year goes on and the longer it takes for Merc to sort things out the further behind they're going to be. It doesn't help either that that they're working with one hand tied behind their back regarding other upgrades due to the porpoising being a huge road block.

What I find interesting though is that with the new regs the teams should theoretically be able to improve the new cars more throughout the year than say last year when there weren't many stones left unturned after 8 years with the "same" cars.
 
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