F1 2022 Season

rpitroda said:
Even if you give them the benefit of the doubt over lack of time to react for Leclerc at the end, they made a real mess of everything before that.

I’ve said it before but I really do think RB are far ahead of both Ferrari and Merc when it comes to these decisions, and strategy for that matter.
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As one f1 journalist pointed out. At the SC, ferrari could have bought leclerc in changed his tyres and front wing and got him out in front of Perez in 4th. Yes leclerc would have lost a place to lewis but would have got past lewis on restart as lewis himself said that currently a tyre deficit to Ferrari is the only way they can challenge them on pace.

Agree RB have been better than Ferrari and Mercedes on the pitwall calls for this season so far and last season.
 
Withnail said:
Ferrari are absolutely hopeless tactically. They need to get somebody in who can turn that shit around.
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I like Binnotti and he’s done well to lead that team from where they were to where they are now. It’s a tough role given the unique pressures at Ferrari. It is a bad reason not to make the tough call, but understandable given Sainz hasn’t won a GP yet. Now that that’s happened I do think they would react quicker in future but can’t say I’m sure. I don’t know how much it should mean but the team needs a motivated, happy and confident Sainz because team mates are vital not just for the constructors but to help the no. 1. My take from today is that Sainz knows full well he is the number two, so in the bigger picture, allowing Sainz to have a day like this might be more meaningful.
 
dinostar77 said:
Today was a epic strategic error by binotto. He is going to be crucified in the italian press tomorrow. Its 10 races into the season, everything should be done to ensure leclerc gets as many points as possible to stand any chance of competing for the WDC.

If ferrari lose the wdc and constructors this season, binotto should lose his job. It was utterly awful strategic calls by ferrari today. Embrassing for a f1 team at the sharp end. Horner was asked the question today if he would have made the same calls as binotto if he was in binttos shoes with his drivers and his answer was no.

Sainz may have had a good day today, but he simply doesnt have the talent to go tow to tow with max in similar performance machinery. A few to, but sainz isnt one of them.

Ferrari are gift wrapping the title for max, to be fair he doesnt need them to as the RB is a sensational package this season.
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I agree with this. My only gripe in this thread is the strange bitterness towards Sainz as useless when he's actually closer to his team mate than any other top team, and has outscored him 3 races in a row. He's due his seat on merit.

In terms of the championship, yes Ferrari are ballsing it up. Their tactical calls are staggering and not just towards Leclerc - Monaco was beyond belief but the '10 car lengths' order they gave Sainz today was so dumb. They are just experts in throwing it away.

But also I hate team orders, I'd love for them to be banned and for it to somehow be enforceable. If your driver is good enough, he'll win it without being gifted it by virtue of just being better over a season than everyone else. RB telling Perez to let Max by twice in the same race, Leclerc asking his team to gift it to him today, Hamilton at Mercedes countless times etc. If you can't do it on your own, you don't deserve it and it's a joke to have your team tell your partner to let you win, and then talk as if you deserve it. I can't imagine the embarrassment I'd feel if at a Sunday league if my mate had an open net 7 times in the season and the manager forced him to pass it to me so I could score and then I tried claiming I was the best player in the league because I had a load of goals. I do like the way that McLaren handled it recently though, 'ok if you think you're faster and data seems to indicate it then we'll give you the chance but if you can't make anything of it then we're going to give it back.' Drivers will always complain they're faster even if they're not so at least fair is fair in that regard.

So I hate team orders but as long as they exist and Mercedes/Red Bull won't hesitate to use them then yeah Ferrari need to sort their shit out if they plan to win a WDC. The tactical calls that Ferrari make around pitstops for example are just staggeringly bad and I don't understand how they come to some of the conclusions that they do. The number of calls they've tried to make this year where their drivers push back because they're stupid and they're like 'ok no problem thanks we'll come back to you', Jesus. At least at Mercedes when Hamilton questions the strategy they give him the reasoning. Ferrari just crumble and say 'ok nevermind' so I can't work out what they're using to make them believe in the calls they're making.
 
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Sainz fully deserves his seat, and deserves a bit of luck today because he's had some terrible luck this season. As have Perez, Max and Leclerc in pretty much equal measure. But Ferrari also deserve pelters for being massive idiots.

Firstly the fact they cant make a decision. All this stuff about 'target lap times' and 'leave 10 car lengths' is nonsensical stalling on the radio. Red Bull and Mercedes just tell their drivers to get out of the way of their team mates, no arguing or bargaining.

They should have pitted Leclerc when the safety car came out but were too scared and hedged their bets. Leclerc has lost a good number of points already this season directly from his teams shit decision making. Not pitting for softs cost him the win today. They cost him points in Monaco. His engine failure in Baku was because they used their oldest engine in the pool instead of a new one, another shit team decision.

And now Sainz is only 11 points behind Leclerc it's going to make their ability to make important calls even harder and Sainz less likely to follow them.
 
Very happy for Mick. He’s starting to find his feet in the current car and tyre package which hopefully leads him to more points.

This is a hallmark of his career to date. He’s a bit slower to adapt to tyres, but once he figures them out, he usually starts to dominate his team mates.

A lot of talk but I reckon Mick will outscore K-Mag in the second half of the season.
 
What I don't understand is why didn't Ferrari just double stack. SC was already declared out. Tell Sainz to build a gap behind Charles. He could not be overtaken by Lewis under SC.
 
rpitroda said:
I like Binnotti and he’s done well to lead that team from where they were to where they are now. It’s a tough role given the unique pressures at Ferrari. It is a bad reason not to make the tough call, but understandable given Sainz hasn’t won a GP yet. Now that that’s happened I do think they would react quicker in future but can’t say I’m sure. I don’t know how much it should mean but the team needs a motivated, happy and confident Sainz because team mates are vital not just for the constructors but to help the no. 1. My take from today is that Sainz knows full well he is the number two, so in the bigger picture, allowing Sainz to have a day like this might be more meaningful.
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Binotto is shit.

He's an engineer and should stick with it. Ferrari's strategy has been consistently the poorest ever since he took over as team principal.
 
Krits said:
What I don't understand is why didn't Ferrari just double stack. SC was already declared out. Tell Sainz to build a gap behind Charles. He could not be overtaken by Lewis under SC.
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Le clerc was 10 seconds from the pit entrance when the safety car was deployed.
 
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Fluctuation0161 said:
Would be amazing.

These new regulation cars are also too wide, so even if they keep the current power unites they need to make the cars more narrow and lighter.
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unfortunately the size increases are mainly due to safety improvements, so i’m not sure they’ll ever shrink back to tiny cars again.

any savings would be helpful though.
 
pacifictheme said:
Le clerc was 10 seconds from the pit entrance when the safety car was deployed.
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It should have been enough. Carlos, if I remember correctly was about 2.5 seconds behind when the SC came out.

I'm not saying it was an easy call to make. I'm just saying Ferrari need to review their decision making process. They always seem to be making decisions on the fly. As a Captain I can tell you, that isn't the right way to make decisions. You have to constantly update your information and always keep the possible scenarios ready in your head. So that when an event happens, you've already prepped your decisions. This is the basis of good decision making. While I'm flying, I'm constantly evaluating possible airports around me and their condition, such that if in the next second I face a failure that requires an immediate landing, I already know where I am going.

Ocons incident took about 20-25 seconds before the SC actually came out. They should have already started formulating the decision as soon as they saw he was having Engine trouble.

It isn't about the "smartness" of the people making the decision, it is the process in which they lead up to a decision which determines the consistency of making the right decision at the right time. From the outside, it seems like Ferrari lack a good process.
 
Krits said:
It should have been enough. Carlos, if I remember correctly was about 2.5 seconds behind when the SC came out.

I'm not saying it was an easy call to make. I'm just saying Ferrari need to review their decision making process. They always seem to be making decisions on the fly. As a Captain I can tell you, that isn't the right way to make decisions. You have to constantly update your information and always keep the possible scenarios ready in your head. So that when an event happens, you've already prepped your decisions. This is the basis of good decision making. While I'm flying, I'm constantly evaluating possible airports around me and their condition, such that if in the next second I face a failure that requires an immediate landing, I already know where I am going.

Ocons incident took about 20-25 seconds before the SC actually came out. They should have already started formulating the decision as soon as they saw he was having Engine trouble.

It isn't about the "smartness" of the people making the decision, it is the process in which they lead up to a decision which determines the consistency of making the right decision at the right time. From the outside, it seems like Ferrari lack a good process.
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Good post.
 
Do we not think George's actions were similar to Grosjeans in Spa 2012, where he received a race ban? Interested to hear your thoughts
 
Krits said:
It should have been enough. Carlos, if I remember correctly was about 2.5 seconds behind when the SC came out.

I'm not saying it was an easy call to make. I'm just saying Ferrari need to review their decision making process. They always seem to be making decisions on the fly. As a Captain I can tell you, that isn't the right way to make decisions. You have to constantly update your information and always keep the possible scenarios ready in your head. So that when an event happens, you've already prepped your decisions. This is the basis of good decision making. While I'm flying, I'm constantly evaluating possible airports around me and their condition, such that if in the next second I face a failure that requires an immediate landing, I already know where I am going.

Ocons incident took about 20-25 seconds before the SC actually came out. They should have already started formulating the decision as soon as they saw he was having Engine trouble.

It isn't about the "smartness" of the people making the decision, it is the process in which they lead up to a decision which determines the consistency of making the right decision at the right time. From the outside, it seems like Ferrari lack a good process.
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It should all stem from binotto. Hes the team principal and sets the standards. Besides the team should have pretty much every scenario mapped out and a plan for each one.

Ferrari are ignoring a very important lesson, one they should pay heed to, their last drivers WDC. Kimi lucked out with that title due to infighting between Alonso and Hamilton and the lack of decisiveness in who is no1 and no2. Important strategy calls, or lack of guts by the team principal to make that call cost them a WDC.

I dont think the situation this season is identical to kimis wdc season. But ferrari need a clear no1 and no2 driver if they are to have any hope of mounting a proper wdc challenge to max and RB. Right now without a Mercedes that can challenge and Ferrari's incompetence, its too easy for max and RB.
 
Evans999 said:
Do we not think George's actions were similar to Grosjeans in Spa 2012, where he received a race ban? Interested to hear your thoughts
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No, he got caught out by how cold the tyres were and how little grip there was. Its more of a issue with his race engineer not briefing him properly that he would lose some positions at the start of the race until the hards were in the right window.
 
Still absolutely buzzing from this weekend, what an absolutely amazing race!

I wouldn't recommend camping for 3 nights though, hardly slept :lol:. I think next year i'll happily pay more for a hotel. At my age, I need a comfortable bed!
 
What a race, super driving on show.

Happy for Sainz to get his win and it could be good overall for Ferrari in the constructors, Sainz needs to perform and finish races. Problem is Leclerc should be on many more points due to fumbling strategy, it's clear so far Sainz this season doesn't have Leclerc's pace when equal so Ferrari need to be quicker at shuffling the cars around and see how much of a gap Leclerc can build.
 
redshaw said:
What a race, super driving on show.

Happy for Sainz to get his win and it could be good overall for Ferrari in the constructors, Sainz needs to perform and finish races. Problem is Leclerc should be on many more points due to fumbling strategy, it's clear so far Sainz this season doesn't have Leclerc's pace when equal so Ferrari need to be quicker at shuffling the cars around and see how much of a gap Leclerc can build.
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Leclerc showed though he didn't have more pace when they did eventually swap them, it was mainly the DRS + draft that was allowing him to stick with him.

Once they went onto the hard tyres though the pace differential was obvious to see.

Leclerc only has himself to blame anyway, he's the one making stupid dives and wrecking his front wing before the race even got going. With the speed he showed with a broken up front wing, he could have won this race at a canter.
 
Evans999 said:
Do we not think George's actions were similar to Grosjeans in Spa 2012, where he received a race ban? Interested to hear your thoughts
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Not even slightly comparable are they? Obviously the consequence was bad but Russell didn’t actually do anything really awful, his onboard you can see he barely even moves his steering left it’s just unfortunate.

Start of the race with speed over runs with a tyre offset, yeah it’s his fault but it’s not like he was cranking steering on to block people. Mirrors are useless in F1 cars too and we benefit from watching back onboard with slow mo replays and multiple angles, in that moment the reaction time is near zero.
 
I'd be fuming if I were LeClerc. What an absolute joke. Ferrari yesterday basically said they don't care about the championship.

Binotto telling Charles off right after the race is just peak.
 
Said that I couldn't ever see Sainz winning a race and he pulls one out of the bag. :lol: Ferrari are throwing the title away though, idiots. Max will win with a couple of races spare because he's got a teammate that will play the lapdog and a team that knows how to win titles. Ferarri are so out of the loop. I can even see Hamilton or Russell finishing ahead of them if they aren't careful.
 
Ferrari cut the points to CS leader by 6 points despite all the break they got yesterday due to Max having number of problems :lol:

LeClerc is getting absolutely fecked, he is a much much faster driver and Sainz simply doesn't have "IT" to go wheel-to-wheel with Max over the course of season
 
Leg-End said:
Not even slightly comparable are they? Obviously the consequence was bad but Russell didn’t actually do anything really awful, his onboard you can see he barely even moves his steering left it’s just unfortunate.

Start of the race with speed over runs with a tyre offset, yeah it’s his fault but it’s not like he was cranking steering on to block people. Mirrors are useless in F1 cars too and we benefit from watching back onboard with slow mo replays and multiple angles, in that moment the reaction time is near zero.
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Due to the severity of the incident, if there was blame to be apportioned, the FIA would have done this by now. They have far more data than anyone else.
 
Ayoba said:
Still absolutely buzzing from this weekend, what an absolutely amazing race!

I wouldn't recommend camping for 3 nights though, hardly slept :lol:. I think next year i'll happily pay more for a hotel. At my age, I need a comfortable bed!
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Great to hear from someone who was actually there.
The crowd noise was akin to a good football stadium.
Any highlights?
 
Kush said:
Ferrari cut the points to CS leader by 6 points despite all the break they got yesterday due to Max having number of problems :lol:

LeClerc is getting absolutely fecked, he is a much much faster driver and Sainz simply doesn't have "IT" to go wheel-to-wheel with Max over the course of season
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How much do I have to pay you to stop capitalising the C in Leclerc? :lol:
 
Evans999 said:
Do we not think George's actions were similar to Grosjeans in Spa 2012, where he received a race ban? Interested to hear your thoughts
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Grosjeans ban was an accumulation of issues where he crashed 7 times on the first lap during that season. It’s not comparable to Russel’s action yesterday for a race ban, even now we have penalty points for these kind of matters, for starts like Hungary last year as a good example.
 
I really like Sainz but I'm not buying the "Leclerc only kept up due to DRS". On lap 35 when Sainz was 1.5sec behind Leclerc he said on the radio that he wanted to be within DRS range to protect himself from Hamilton, then when the SC came out on lap 39 he was 4.7sec behind. So even if he was able to hold Leclerc behind him earlier in the race he clearly couldn't keep up with him for more than 4 laps when he was behind. He fully deserved the victory though despite how many "it was only because of's" you throw at it.

I also don't think anyone needs to feel sorry that Hamilton lost a potential win since I highly doubt he had any chance of catching and passing Leclerc in 13 laps being 6sec behind (and with Sainz between them) as their lap times were within a tenth or two right before the SC.
 
Krits said:
It should have been enough. Carlos, if I remember correctly was about 2.5 seconds behind when the SC came out.

I'm not saying it was an easy call to make. I'm just saying Ferrari need to review their decision making process. They always seem to be making decisions on the fly. As a Captain I can tell you, that isn't the right way to make decisions. You have to constantly update your information and always keep the possible scenarios ready in your head. So that when an event happens, you've already prepped your decisions. This is the basis of good decision making. While I'm flying, I'm constantly evaluating possible airports around me and their condition, such that if in the next second I face a failure that requires an immediate landing, I already know where I am going.

Ocons incident took about 20-25 seconds before the SC actually came out. They should have already started formulating the decision as soon as they saw he was having Engine trouble.

It isn't about the "smartness" of the people making the decision, it is the process in which they lead up to a decision which determines the consistency of making the right decision at the right time. From the outside, it seems like Ferrari lack a good process.
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I refuse to believe that every single F1 team doesn't have a couple of people whose only job is to constantly plan for what they should do if there's a VSC or SC, but seeing some of the decisions some teams make when it happens it actually looks like they don't. I realize that it's a lot harder in reality and that you can make wrong decisions even with the right information but Ferrari seems to be masters at not making the right call every time.
 
Zlaatan said:
I really like Sainz but I'm not buying the "Leclerc only kept up due to DRS". On lap 35 when Sainz was 1.5sec behind Leclerc he said on the radio that he wanted to be within DRS range to protect himself from Hamilton, then when the SC came out on lap 39 he was 4.7sec behind. So even if he was able to hold Leclerc behind him earlier in the race he clearly couldn't keep up with him for more than 4 laps when he was behind. He fully deserved the victory though despite how many "it was only because of's" you throw at it.

I also don't think anyone needs to feel sorry that Hamilton lost a potential win since I highly doubt he had any chance of catching and passing Leclerc in 13 laps being 6sec behind (and with Sainz between them) as their lap times were within a tenth or two right before the SC.
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Yeah Lewis wasn’t catching (and passing) Leclerc before the SC, Leclerc‘s pace was within a tenth or two and even with a tyre drop off it was going to be enough on hards.

Lewis’s chance was either running the mediums longer and going to softs or a well timed SC or VSC, both of which were still a long shot. Merc pace was good but tyre switch on is still poor (see Perez at the end) and they are still behind Red Bull and Ferrari on outright pace even on a smooth track.

Not expecting Merc to be challenging in Austria but chance again in France I think even without potentially regulation changes that may hamper the front two.
 
Zlaatan said:
I also don't think anyone needs to feel sorry that Hamilton lost a potential win since I highly doubt he had any chance of catching and passing Leclerc in 13 laps being 6sec behind (and with Sainz between them) as their lap times were within a tenth or two right before the SC.
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He had tyres 13 laps younger than Sainz and 8 laps younger than Leclerc. The Mercedes has worked best this season on the harder compounds and Hamilton’s lap times in his first stint was faster than the Ferrari. I think there was a high chance, without the SC, that he would of caught and ultimately passed the Ferrari’s due to the tyre age delta. The times prior from lap 33 to 39 were only that tyre coming up to its performance window as it wasn’t a scrubbed set of hards that went on.

On a separate note, all of the points about Ferrari and strategy only comes into fruitition if the team can actually double stack, ie. pit team ability. Given what happened in Monaco I think Ferrari didn’t have confidence in getting both cars out and not losing track position for 1 or even 2 cars in that moment.
 
Ayoba said:
Still absolutely buzzing from this weekend, what an absolutely amazing race!

I wouldn't recommend camping for 3 nights though, hardly slept :lol:. I think next year i'll happily pay more for a hotel. At my age, I need a comfortable bed!
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How did you get tickets?
 
Leg-End said:
Not even slightly comparable are they? Obviously the consequence was bad but Russell didn’t actually do anything really awful, his onboard you can see he barely even moves his steering left it’s just unfortunate.

Start of the race with speed over runs with a tyre offset, yeah it’s his fault but it’s not like he was cranking steering on to block people. Mirrors are useless in F1 cars too and we benefit from watching back onboard with slow mo replays and multiple angles, in that moment the reaction time is near zero.
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To be honest, Gasly has to know that gap is going to close. Its barely a cars width and they're heading down to a right hander, you have to expect George is going to move over slightly. It was way too aggressive.
 
Zlaatan said:
I refuse to believe that every single F1 team doesn't have a couple of people whose only job is to constantly plan for what they should do if there's a VSC or SC, but seeing some of the decisions some teams make when it happens it actually looks like they don't. I realize that it's a lot harder in reality and that you can make wrong decisions even with the right information but Ferrari seems to be masters at not making the right call every time.
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Not only do they have that, they have software systems that are constantly running simulations on strategy decisions so when something happens they can immediately see all the options.
 
RepardReece said:
They release sometime in December, general admission tickets are fairly easy to get, I bought mine 3 days after release from the main website (silverstone website)

Grandstand sells out quickly, though.
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I'll have to keep an eye out this coming year then. Never tried for some reason.
 
What a race, by far the best of this season and arguably of last too. Some of the duels were breathtaking, the skill these drivers have I just don't understand.

Well deserved by Sainz. Getting overtaken on that first lap would have likely knocked his confidence, but stayed calm and delivered. He did benefit from the better strategy vs LeClerc at the end but held well.

The Merc looks like a massive improvement, shown by Hamilton cutting the time down between him and the Ferraris. Safety car in the end stopped a P2 or even victory, but he should be happy nonetheless with how much better the car is versus the beginning of the season.

Finally, Max very unlucky with the floor damage. It was in the bag for him but massive credit to stay in the points. A close of gap in the points would have made the title fight more interesting, but only a 6 point swing isn't enough to stop him for me. Still a lot of races to go but Max is comfortably the favourite to get title no.2
 
Some mature race craft from Schumacher yesterday, I wonder if the cost cap for repairs at Haas was playing on his mind during these moves…

 
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