F1 2022 Season

laughtersassassin said:
This is already a new set of rules so....

That's that one complete.

Also the rest of your comment is absolute nonsense.
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Barely. 2026 is the next big change.

What we've had so far is a very dodgy title last year and something not too far off the Brawn F1 season this year with Red Bull on record pace to win the title. He's a quick driver but lets see how he does over the next decade before we start comparing him to the greats.
 
11101 said:
something not too far off the Brawn F1 season this year with Red Bull on record pace to win the title.
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If anything it's a total opposite of the Brawn season. Button had 6 wins in the first 7, and then a rubbish car in the last 10 races after the regs and Red Bull had caught up.

Ferrari are still the fastest in one lap pace as they have been all year, and should have won in Monaco and Spain and probably at least one of Baku and France. What Red Bull have done this season is blitz them in development after Australia.
 
RB had a good base because they solved the bouncing in pre-season, they added a few bits but critically they reduced weight - they said months ago that will help tyre deg.

It looks like that development has made the difference. The other teams still have the bouncing and weight problems so they should be able to develop next years car to fix those and catch up a bit to make it competitive again.

I’m still positive on F1 with MAX, LEC, RUS, NOR all capable.
 
11101 said:
Barely. 2026 is the next big change.

What we've had so far is a very dodgy title last year and something not too far off the Brawn F1 season this year with Red Bull on record pace to win the title. He's a quick driver but lets see how he does over the next decade before we start comparing him to the greats.
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Let's just ignore his accolades from 2015-21 then. From 2018 onwards Max has been extremely consistent. He's already a record holder in a lot of categories. Last year was his first opportunity for a title and however controversial it may have been, he took it. He had the most wins last year, while battling with one of the goats. A man who was on a 4 streak championship run. Verstappen ended an era and seems to be starting a new one. Yes we will have to wait and see, but currently I don't see anyone on the grid who's on his level, with that level of consistency except for Lewis, who has most of his career behind him.
 
11101 said:
Barely. 2026 is the next big change.

What we've had so far is a very dodgy title last year and something not too far off the Brawn F1 season this year with Red Bull on record pace to win the title. He's a quick driver but lets see how he does over the next decade before we start comparing him to the greats.
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Whatever helps you sleep at night mate
 
11101 said:
Barely. 2026 is the next big change.

What we've had so far is a very dodgy title last year and something not too far off the Brawn F1 season this year with Red Bull on record pace to win the title. He's a quick driver but lets see how he does over the next decade before we start comparing him to the greats.
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The key to max's long term success will be moving to the right team at the right time. As Alonso and Vettel have shown, get it wrong and you may not have a potential championship winning car again in your career.
 
I think most drivers on the grid are very talented. Other than Max and Hamilton, if you put the likes of Leclerc, Russell, Norris and maybe even Sainz in the RB, they would be leading the championship as well. F1 is still too dependent on the cars. I would love to see all of them race in F2 for a few race to see who comes out on top.
 
YzWayne said:
I think most drivers on the grid are very talented. Other than Max and Hamilton, if you put the likes of Leclerc, Russell, Norris and maybe even Sainz in the RB, they would be leading the championship as well. F1 is still too dependent on the cars. I would love to see all of them race in F2 for a few race to see who comes out on top.
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Russell, Norris and Sainz are good but all a level below Max and Charles.

Will be interesting to see where Norris ultimately ends up. Not impossible in a year or two that he has both Red Bull and Mercedes eyeing him up to replace Perez/Hamilton.
 
YzWayne said:
I think most drivers on the grid are very talented. Other than Max and Hamilton, if you put the likes of Leclerc, Russell, Norris and maybe even Sainz in the RB, they would be leading the championship as well. F1 is still too dependent on the cars. I would love to see all of them race in F2 for a few race to see who comes out on top.
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I agree but also if you put Max or Lewis in that Ferrari they'd be much closer than Leclerc is for sure.
 
No one really seems to be talking about how the SC picked up the wrong driver. Did that waste a lap at the end of the race? How on earth does that happen? Bizarre.

I seem to be one of the only people who think Ferrari did the right thing by pitting Charles. They were going to lose a straight fight with RB, so their only chance of winning was to oppose Max's strategy and hope for a SC. They were very unlucky that the VSC ended when it did. Lots of other cars also tried holding out as it was fairly likely that a SC would come (given the high speed nature of the track), but unfortunately it only came when it was too late for any racing.

Max and RB clearly deserve the win and the title this season, and he continues to also have that sprinkle of fortune which doesn't hurt either.
 
goalscholes said:
No one really seems to be talking about how the SC picked up the wrong driver. Did that waste a lap at the end of the race? How on earth does that happen? Bizarre.

I seem to be one of the only people who think Ferrari did the right thing by pitting Charles. They were going to lose a straight fight with RB, so their only chance of winning was to oppose Max's strategy and hope for a SC. They were very unlucky that the VSC ended when it did. Lots of other cars also tried holding out as it was fairly likely that a SC would come (given the high speed nature of the track), but unfortunately it only came when it was too late for any racing.

Max and RB clearly deserve the win and the title this season, and he continues to also have that sprinkle of fortune which doesn't hurt either.
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Still has had 2 DNFs and damage at Silverstone all due to no fault of his own so lost a lot of points unavoidably on his part

Just like last year which is the only reason the championship was close after all.

Far from the luckiest driver.

This season though is all just more Ferrari being Ferrari and Leclerc fecking up that once or twice. Should have been much closer by rights but Ferrari kind of wasted first half of season when their car was as good or better.

In terms of all the Saftey cars this year, they haven't really helped Max much at all. They where races he was almost always winning anyway.
 
United Hobbit said:
Isn't Gasly under a bit of pressure for his seat? Wonder if they may put NDV in that car?
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From all accounts Gasly is finalising the last bits of an Alpine contract. NDV will be looking at Mercedes linked teams for a drive, his best (only) chance is Williams.
 
My first nephew/niece is due in about a month so I've been AliExpress shopping.

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11101 said:
Barely. 2026 is the next big change.

What we've had so far is a very dodgy title last year and something not too far off the Brawn F1 season this year with Red Bull on record pace to win the title. He's a quick driver but lets see how he does over the next decade before we start comparing him to the greats.
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Over the last decade Mercedes were more dominant than any other team in history yet they've spent half this season complaining about how they don't have a clue why their new car isn't working. To say that the cars barely changed this year is like saying United's trophy haul barely changed after SAF quit.
 
Zlaatan said:
Over the last decade Mercedes were more dominant than any other team in history yet they've spent half this season complaining about how they don't have a clue why their new car isn't working. To say that the cars barely changed this year is like saying United's trophy haul barely changed after SAF quit.
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Brilliant analogy that.
 
Zlaatan said:
Over the last decade Mercedes were more dominant than any other team in history yet they've spent half this season complaining about how they don't have a clue why their new car isn't working. To say that the cars barely changed this year is like saying United's trophy haul barely changed after SAF quit.
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Yeh this is spot on, the difference in the cars is massive, these are ground effect cars, completely different to the previous years.
 
Kanu said:
I agree, was being sarcastic. People here with Olympic levels of mental gymnastics trying to put Max' achievements down. Deep down they know he's a threat to Hamilton's records and that's a bitter pill to swallow for some. Matter of time until they realise it though. Wether they'll admit it is another thing.
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No mate it's just ridiculously premature. He's talented obviously but he's a long way to go to be considered one of the greats, let alone the GOAT.
 
hobbers said:
If anything it's a total opposite of the Brawn season. Button had 6 wins in the first 7, and then a rubbish car in the last 10 races after the regs and Red Bull had caught up.

Ferrari are still the fastest in one lap pace as they have been all year, and should have won in Monaco and Spain and probably at least one of Baku and France. What Red Bull have done this season is blitz them in development after Australia.
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The domination is the same. In percentage terms Max is on for a record in terms of how early he could win the title.

Ferrari have a decent car in some circumstances but the team is rubbish and the drivers a level below the best.
 
11101 said:
Maybe set of rules is the wrong word, era would have been better. Max needs to win across more than one to be considered amongst the best.
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Are you defining era by engine regulations? If so then sure, but for me that's misguided - this year clearly marks a new generation of cars that fundamentally function differently to those that have come before.

Again if Adrian Newey is saying that this is the biggest change in decades then I'll defer to his opinion - for me changing the basic way the cars work aerodynamically is a demarcation of one era versus another.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Are you defining era by engine regulations? If so then sure, but for me that's misguided - this year clearly marks a new generation of cars that fundamentally function differently to those that have come before.

Again if Adrian Newey is saying that this is the biggest change in decades then I'll defer to his opinion - for me changing the basic way the cars work aerodynamically is a demarcation of one era versus another.
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I've no idea what that criteria is about. Winning across more than one era? How about he wins another 4 or 5 World Championships before we start having this conversation?
 
Withnail said:
I've no idea what that criteria is about. Winning across more than one era? How about he wins another 4 or 5 World Championships before we start having this conversation?
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Oh sorry mate I think you misunderstand me here - I'm not one of those who is arguing Verstappen has a GOAT case and I agree he needs a more robust CV. I just thought the argument that he hasn't done it in multiple eras is flawed because this year's car is a far more drastic change when compared to previous regulations.

Personally I don't think it's crazy to suggest that Verstappen is on a trajectory to reach the absolute apex of the sport. But I also think it's crazy to throw his name in there amongst the greats at this point in his career.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Are you defining era by engine regulations? If so then sure, but for me that's misguided - this year clearly marks a new generation of cars that fundamentally function differently to those that have come before.

Again if Adrian Newey is saying that this is the biggest change in decades then I'll defer to his opinion - for me changing the basic way the cars work aerodynamically is a demarcation of one era versus another.
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I don't think you can really mark this year as a new era because, Mercedes aside, the running order is much the same as before. When I think back to past major rule changes the teams have been thrown all over the place.

Whilst the way the cars generate downforce has changed, performance is already about back to 2021 levels ie not changed much and the engines are the biggest factor and they haven't changed at all. Newey is a chassis and aero guy after all.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Oh sorry mate I think you misunderstand me here - I'm not one of those who is arguing Verstappen has a GOAT case and I agree he needs a more robust CV. I just thought the argument that he hasn't done it in multiple eras is flawed because this year's car is a far more drastic change when compared to previous regulations.

Personally I don't think it's crazy to suggest that Verstappen is on a trajectory to reach the absolute apex of the sport. But I also think it's crazy to throw his name in there amongst the greats at this point in his career.
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Sorry my bad for not being clear. I was agreeing with you. I'm not sure what the era thing is all about or how relevant it is at this point but I agree it seems flawed given the massive changes we've seen this year.
 
11101 said:
I don't think you can really mark this year as a new era because, Mercedes aside, the running order is much the same as before. When I think back to past major rule changes the teams have been thrown all over the place.

Whilst the way the cars generate downforce has changed, performance is already about back to 2021 levels ie not changed much and the engines are the biggest factor and they haven't changed at all. Newey is a chassis and aero guy after all.
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Literally there is not a single team in the same place they finished in the 2021 constructors as they currently stand thus far this year?
 
Withnail said:
Sorry my bad for not being clear. I was agreeing with you. I'm not sure what the era thing is all about or how relevant it is at this point but I agree it seems flawed given the massive changes we've seen this year.
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Ah no worries mate! Hard to keep up with this thread hah
 
Kanu said:
Lots of people are, though. Matter of time brother. Be glad you're watching history in the making:D
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He's doing well with the best car on the grid, but I've heard this all before.

Vettel was the new GOAT until he lost the best car and then became just another very good driver.

Time will tell as you say, to be the GOAT you need to win 7 championships+ and have a serious amount of domination to even get close to Lewis or Micheal.

You also need luck on your side and good decision making to be in the best team at the right time.

Red Bull with Honda seem like the perfect team for him right now, but things could change. Let's see how it plays out.
 
Adam-Utd said:
He's doing well with the best car on the grid, but I've heard this all before.

Vettel was the new GOAT until he lost the best car and then became just another very good driver.

Time will tell as you say, to be the GOAT you need to win 7 championships+ and have a serious amount of domination to even get close to Lewis or Micheal.

You also need luck on your side and good decision making to be in the best team at the right time.

Red Bull with Honda seem like the perfect team for him right now, but things could change. Let's see how it plays out.
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You don't need 7+ championships to be in with a shout of being the GOAT.

Greatest doesn't mean most decorated.....

Senna is many people's GOAT for example.

Circumstances for all driver are different.

Right now Max has had 2 championship potential cars. So all he could possibly have won is 2.

It's always important to remember in F1 you can only win as many championships as long as you are given a championship potential car.

So for me GOAT and most decorated can certainly be different things. Just like in football.

Like for example if someone came into F1 and won like 5 seasons on the trot in their first 5 years or something and then retired they might be considered the GOAT by many despite winning less total.

You are right though that Vettels standing would be a lot higher and rightly so had he left the sport straight after winning 4 titles.

Stuff like this is also why there isn't really a greatest as it's not a definable metric. It's an opinion.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Literally there is not a single team in the same place they finished in the 2021 constructors as they currently stand thus far this year?
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Remove those Mercedes teams and other than AlphaTauri the other teams are in exactly the same position relative to last year. Red Bull ahead of Ferrari ahead of Alpine ahead of AlphaTauri ahead of Haas. The Mercedes teams are in the same order too, just a spot or two down on last season and so will be right back where they were once the engine is sorted out.
 
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