F1 2022 Season

[sepulturite]

It's not just on here either. Other F1 sites' comment pages are full of it. It's so odd how it has become one of the most tribal sports.

The second you criticise Max you get instant comments that you're a blinded Mercedes fan and that Hamilton caused an incident once. The second you say something pro Max you get a RB are cheats and he hasn't won a deserved title response.

The oddest thing is that surely most wont have been fans of Mercedes or RB for long, given they are two relatively new teams in their current form.

Yeh this is all so true, I'm a fan of neither driver or team, so I think I'm fairly impartial, but I find it very hard not to shout out to myself 'oh feck off', and then type it, in response to some of the bonkers biased opinions on here.

I'm not a fan of Max as I said, but I can see why he gets a bit upset when people call in to question his title last season (in terms of driving anyway, budget cap thing is a different story) but he drove his heart out last season and I was glad he won, it was just a pity it happened the way it did.

At the same time I can totally see why Hamilton was upset with what happened last season, it was totally unfair and he was definitely robbed in that sense.

But it's nearly impossible to get reasonable opinions from some posters on some subjects on here, so I've given up trying really.

 

[Buster15]

The UK based teams have to publicly publish their spend. Companies House rules.

As an ex company director I am well aware of that.
But the company accounts which are provided to HMRC and filed with companies house show what was spent on what but not how it was allocated.

And Mercedes Benz is not a UK registered company.

 

[Drawfull]

As an ex company director I am well aware of that.
But the company accounts which are provided to HMRC and filed with companies house show what was spent on what but not how it was allocated.

And Mercedes Benz is not a UK registered company.

Some teams have broken it down In the past. But your second sentence isn’t clear, so not sure if that’s what you mean.

 

[Buster15]

Some teams have broken it down In the past. But your second sentence isn’t clear, so not sure if that’s what you mean.

We were talking about company accounts being registered with companies house. That of course only applies to UK registered company. So not Mercedes Benz which is registered in Germany.

 

[F-Red]

We were talking about company accounts being registered with companies house. That of course only applies to UK registered company. So not Mercedes Benz which is registered in Germany.

The Grand Prix team is a registered UK company, and has been for years since it was Tyrell. It's now owned by three groups equally, Toto Wolff, Ineos, and Mercedes Benz. Their latest company accounts are here.

 

[Buster15]

The Grand Prix team is a registered UK company, and has been for years since it was Tyrell. It's now owned by three groups equally, Toto Wolff, Ineos, and Mercedes Benz. Their latest company accounts are here.

Thank you so much for the clarification. Was wondering why when Mercedes win a GP they play the German national anthem. But I will look at the attachment.

 

[F-Red]

Thank you so much for the clarification. Was wondering why when Mercedes win a GP they play the German national anthem. But I will look at the attachment.

Each team will designate 'ownership' to FOM & FIA for the purposes of anthems on podiums in a sporting sense, it means absolutely nothing to the company structure from a legal and financial standpoint. The other thing to note is that most teams with larger ownership of foreign entities, will still be UK registered or linked back to the company who made the original submission to join F1. Reason being is that inheriting a team means they don't have to pay the entrance fees as a new starter, which is why you'll see more acquisition of teams soon rather than brand new entrants to the sport so they can bypass that policy.

 

[Drawfull]

We were talking about company accounts being registered with companies house. That of course only applies to UK registered company. So not Mercedes Benz which is registered in Germany.

I see it's already been mentioned that the team are UK registered. Here's an example of Toro Rosso's figures from a couple of years ago, which go into more detail than the company accounts. There's a breakdown towards the bottom of the article.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/csylt/...ally-costs-to-run-an-f1-team/?sh=74d70ac977c1

 

[Buster15]

I see it's already been mentioned that the team are UK registered. Here's an example of Toro Rosso's figures from a couple of years ago, which go into more detail than the company accounts. There's a breakdown towards the bottom of the article.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/csylt/...ally-costs-to-run-an-f1-team/?sh=74d70ac977c1

That is very interested thanks.

 

[Buster15]

Each team will designate 'ownership' to FOM & FIA for the purposes of anthems on podiums in a sporting sense, it means absolutely nothing to the company structure from a legal and financial standpoint. The other thing to note is that most teams with larger ownership of foreign entities, will still be UK registered or linked back to the company who made the original submission to join F1. Reason being is that inheriting a team means they don't have to pay the entrance fees as a new starter, which is why you'll see more acquisition of teams soon rather than brand new entrants to the sport so they can bypass that policy.

Very much appreciated thanks.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

 

[hobbers]

What's worse than whining?

Whining about whining. While misrepresenting what was originally being whined about.

 

[Buster15]

I am sure that winning the WC and constructors championship more than compensates for any so called mental health problems.

Horner needs to accept responsibility for the fact that Red Bull has tarnished itself without any outside assistance.

 

[dinostar77]

Horner is an absolute bellend. By far the most dislikable f1 team boss i can recall, other than flavio briatorie

 

[pauldyson1uk]

TBH I dont dislike Red Bull or Max, it is Horner and Helmut Marko that I dislike with a passion.
Marko is the evil Palpatine and Horner is Skywalker being turned to the darkside, get rid of them both and Red Bull would not be hated so much

 

[SilentWitness]

TBH I dont dislike Red Bull or Max, it is Horner and Helmut Marko that I dislike with a passion.
Marko is the evil Palpatine and Horner is Skywalker being turned to the darkside, get rid of them both and Red Bull would not be hated so much

Mean to talk about @hobbers like that.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

Mean to talk about @hobber like that.

 

[hobbers]

TBH I dont dislike Red Bull or Max, it is Horner and Helmut Marko that I dislike with a passion.
Marko is the evil Palpatine and Horner is Skywalker being turned to the darkside, get rid of them both and Red Bull would not be hated so much

The way Horner lives in some peoples heads is very reminiscent of Liverpool fans and old whiskey nose, as they called him.

Red Bull face a relentlessly biased UK media, and Horner just does the obvious thing - stands up for his employees and creates a siege mentality. Meanwhile other unsuccessful bosses like Binotto let their team take pelters and ridicule from the media week after week.

 

[phelans shorts]

Horner is an absolute bellend. By far the most dislikable f1 team boss i can recall, other than flavio briatorie

See I don’t see this. Horner to me comes across incredibly panto, so I always just end up laughing at him. He doesn’t have the seriousness to go with the smugness that Toto has.

 

[hellhunter]

How exactly does England born Christian Horner have to battle relentlessly biased UK media?

 

[dinostar77]

TBH I dont dislike Red Bull or Max, it is Horner and Helmut Marko that I dislike with a passion.
Marko is the evil Palpatine and Horner is Skywalker being turned to the darkside, get rid of them both and Red Bull would not be hated so much

I think its the same for most. No issue with verstappen.

 

[hobbers]

How exactly does England born Christian Horner have to battle relentlessly biased UK media?

Because he's had a German and then a Dutch driver come along and dominate the sport with his team, against British drivers who were always favoured by the British media. Come on, it's not difficult.

The British media were biased against Schumacher, and Alonso, and Vettel, and Rosberg, and now Verstappen. You'd have to be living in cuckoo land to not recognise that.

 

[JuriM]

Airstrikes near Jeddah wasn't enough to suspend, but that is

 

[hobbers]

Airstrikes near Jeddah wasn't enough to suspend, but that is

Jeddah has enough money to cushion the impact of any airstrikes.

 

[F-Red]

If anyone has a spare hour on their hands this week, then check out F1's Beyond the Grid podcast. Latifi is the guest this week and is a very open and honest conversation about his three years at Williams.

 

[dinostar77]

If anyone has a spare hour on their hands this week, then check out F1's Beyond the Grid podcast. Latifi is the guest this week and is a very open and honest conversation about his three years at Williams.

Does he admit he doesnt have the talent for f1?

 

[dinostar77]

Airstrikes near Jeddah wasn't enough to suspend, but that is

Please let it happen. Abu dhabi as well. This season has been over for awhile. Let the teams get some rest. Crazy calender.

 

[The Firestarter]

Jeddah has enough money to cushion the impact of any airstrikes.

Yeah stacked dollars cushion missile impacts nicely.

 

[F-Red]

Does he admit he doesnt have the talent for f1?

No, but it's very clear from him that the car does not suit his braking and driving style, and no surprises that the Williams car is unpredictable from corner to corner. He's an F2 race winner, so I expect if he moves to Indycar then he'll find more success in a spec series.

I would recommend listening to it though.

 

[Adam-Utd]

No, but it's very clear from him that the car does not suit his braking and driving style, and no surprises that the Williams car is unpredictable from corner to corner. He's an F2 race winner, so I expect if he moves to Indycar then he'll find more success in a spec series.

I would recommend listening to it though.

It's also possible he's just not good enough for F1.

Winning in F2 is nowhere near as difficult as doing well in F1. Look at Mazepin/Schumacher for example.

Indy is not an easy series either, but he could definitely get a seat somewhere.

 

[F-Red]

It's also possible he's just not good enough for F1.

Winning in F2 is nowhere near as difficult as doing well in F1. Look at Mazepin/Schumacher for example.

Indy is not an easy series either, but he could definitely get a seat somewhere.

Agreed. I don't think I'm saying he's good enough for F1, the point I was making is that it's just never as clear cut as some would make out on here around performance. Put most in a car with plenty of downforce and we'd see some different results with all of the tail end of the field. If Latifi has been afforded three years, then Schumacher deserves a further year (probably a year on top of that to compensate for the dog of a car that Haas gave him in 2021).

 

[Adam-Utd]

Agreed. I don't think I'm saying he's good enough for F1, the point I was making is that it's just never as clear cut as some would make out on here around performance. Put most in a car with plenty of downforce and we'd see some different results with all of the tail end of the field. If Latifi has been afforded three years, then Schumacher deserves a further year (probably a year on top of that to compensate for the dog of a car that Haas gave him in 2021).

Lets not forget Russell completely out performed him across 2 years.

De Vries came in for 1 weekend and beat him in his own car. I'm sure if he had a red bull he'd look better, but then so would we all.

The simple fact is he wouldn't be anywhere near f1 without his billionaire dad. He's had a great few years, but probably time to move on.

 

[dinostar77]

https://www.planetf1.com/news/red-bull-shelved-some-2022-upgrades-budget-cap-report/

..."The Italian publication reports that Red Bull have been working on next year’s car for many weeks now and planned to run some upgrades intended for 2023 this year already.

“In an F1 without tests, the last few races would have been very useful to try some aerodynamic updates on the track that would have collected useful data for the 2023 car,” it claims.

But those upgrades “have been suspended”.

“The team, which ended up in the eye of the storm on the financial regulation part, decided to stop introducing updates on the RB18 after Singapore.

“According to Red Bull sources, in addition to the new lighter chassis, which carried out the crash tests in the summer but was never introduced, Red Bull would have continued the development of the RB18 with some innovations on the sides as well as other small innovations for the floor. Now reportedly none of those will be run this season...."

 

[sun_tzu]

https://www.planetf1.com/news/red-bull-shelved-some-2022-upgrades-budget-cap-report/

..."The Italian publication reports that Red Bull have been working on next year’s car for many weeks now and planned to run some upgrades intended for 2023 this year already.

“In an F1 without tests, the last few races would have been very useful to try some aerodynamic updates on the track that would have collected useful data for the 2023 car,” it claims.

But those upgrades “have been suspended”.

“The team, which ended up in the eye of the storm on the financial regulation part, decided to stop introducing updates on the RB18 after Singapore.

“According to Red Bull sources, in addition to the new lighter chassis, which carried out the crash tests in the summer but was never introduced, Red Bull would have continued the development of the RB18 with some innovations on the sides as well as other small innovations for the floor. Now reportedly none of those will be run this season...."

presumably as red bull "allegedly" thought they were accounting for expenses correctly in 2021 they will have continued with the same practices in 2022 and being so far through the season I guess they run a real risk of being over the cap again this year so probably they have cut right back on the catering and even stopped some car developments

 

[dinostar77]

presumably as red bull "allegedly" thought they were accounting for expenses correctly in 2021 they will have continued with the same practices in 2022 and being so far through the season I guess they run a real risk of being over the cap again this year so probably they have cut right back on the catering and even stopped some car developments

I would agree. Being in excess of the cap for two consecutive seasons really wouldnt be good.

 

[simonhch]

The way Horner lives in some peoples heads is very reminiscent of Liverpool fans and old whiskey nose, as they called him.

Red Bull face a relentlessly biased UK media, and Horner just does the obvious thing - stands up for his employees and creates a siege mentality. Meanwhile other unsuccessful bosses like Binotto let their team take pelters and ridicule from the media week after week.

Are the media biased or just calling it as it is? You could argue that those coming out in support of Horner are the biased ones. The man is an odious little cretin and is the most unlikable team boss I can recall in a long time. I am not fundamentally against Red Bull, I am fundamentally against Horner, and I’m British. There’s no bias there. Just one person seeing another person as extremely unlikable. I don’t dislike Horner because of the nationality of his drivers, I dislike Horner because of Horner. Likewise, I don’t dislike Verstappen because he’s Dutch, I dislike him because of his generally classless and ungracious behaviour, and the fact that for a long time he was a danger to those around him on the track. In my book it’s one thing to be a sore loser, but it takes a special kind of snake to be a sore winner; which is exactly what we’ve seen from Verstappen.

The fact these two won the championship last year with some laughably corrupt race stewarding, all while Horner screamed on the radio, and then to top it all off we found out they cheated on the cost cap too, just goes further to position these guys as pantomime villains. Because of their actions, not their nationality or some inherent bias. That 2021 Verstappen win, will always have an asterisk next to it, and many, myself included, will see it as completely illegitimate.

I don’t think anyone is against the creation of a siege mentality, for the sake of leadership in sports, as we’ve seen many revered managers do the same thing in football. But it’s a fine line between that and purposely stoking division that I think Horner crossed a long time ago.

Horner is a horrible little man, and I think while the sport is richer for the competition Red Bull provide, it is all the poorer for the participation of this particular individual. No matter where you are from.

 

[The Cat]

Are the media biased or just calling it as it is? You could argue that those coming out in support of Horner are the biased ones. The man is an odious little cretin and is the most unlikable team boss I can recall in a long time. I am not fundamentally against Red Bull, I am fundamentally against Horner, and I’m British. There’s no bias there. Just one person seeing another person as extremely unlikable. I don’t dislike Horner because of the nationality of his drivers, I dislike Horner because of Horner. Likewise, I don’t dislike Verstappen because he’s Dutch, I dislike him because he’s a douche bag, and his generally classless and ungracious behaviour.

The fact these two won the championship last year with some laughably corrupt race stewarding, all while Horner screamed on the radio, and then go top it all off we found out they cheated on the cost cap too, just goes further to position these guys as pantomime villains. Because of their actions, not their nationality or some inherent bias. That 2021 Verstappen win, will always have an asterisk next to it, and many, myself included, will see it as completely illegitimate.

I don’t think anyone is against the creation of a siege mentality, for the sake of leadership in sports, as we’ve seen many revered managers do the same thing in football. But it’s a fine line between that and purposely stoking division that I think Horner crossed a long time ago.

Horner is a horrible little man, and I think while the sport is richer for the competition Red Bull provide, it is all the poorer for the participation of this particular individual. No matter where you are from.

Very well said.

 

[hobbers]

Are the media biased or just calling it as it is? You could argue that those coming out in support of Horner are the biased ones. The man is an odious little cretin and is the most unlikable team boss I can recall in a long time. I am not fundamentally against Red Bull, I am fundamentally against Horner, and I’m British. There’s no bias there. Just one person seeing another person as extremely unlikable. I don’t dislike Horner because of the nationality of his drivers, I dislike Horner because of Horner. Likewise, I don’t dislike Verstappen because he’s Dutch, I dislike him because of his generally classless and ungracious behaviour, and the fact that for a long time he was a danger to those around him on the track. In my book it’s one thing to be a sore loser, but it takes a special kind of snake to be a sore winner; which is exactly what we’ve seen from Verstappen.

The fact these two won the championship last year with some laughably corrupt race stewarding, all while Horner screamed on the radio, and then to top it all off we found out they cheated on the cost cap too, just goes further to position these guys as pantomime villains. Because of their actions, not their nationality or some inherent bias. That 2021 Verstappen win, will always have an asterisk next to it, and many, myself included, will see it as completely illegitimate.

I don’t think anyone is against the creation of a siege mentality, for the sake of leadership in sports, as we’ve seen many revered managers do the same thing in football. But it’s a fine line between that and purposely stoking division that I think Horner crossed a long time ago.

Horner is a horrible little man, and I think while the sport is richer for the competition Red Bull provide, it is all the poorer for the participation of this particular individual. No matter where you are from.

Horner might live in a few heads in this thread but it looks like he's bought up a few hundred acres of land and built some apartment complexes in yours.

Anyway, I never said the press dislike the foreign dominance in F1 because they're foreign. They end up cultivating an irrational dislike for them because they are all mad stans for the British drivers of the time and get consumed by their own bitterness when they get beaten.

You prove that pretty nicely with your Max hatred. He's a far better character than Russell, on and off the track. Arguably less of a twat than Lando as well, given how he's acted this year.

 

[simonhch]

Horner might live in a few heads in this thread but it looks like he's bought up a few hundred acres of land and built some apartment complexes in yours.

Anyway, I never said the press dislike the foreign dominance in F1 because they're foreign. They end up cultivating an irrational dislike for them because they are all mad stans for the British drivers of the time and get consumed by their own bitterness when they get beaten.

You really didn’t address anything I said with anything even approaching a convincing rebuttal. The refrain of living in someone’s head “rent free” is an overused trope, deployed by respondents who have little in the way of a factual or compelling argument, so instead resort to terms of belittlement popularised by sheeple on social media. It’s use in this instance is no surprise as you rolled it out previously in this debate in an attempt to shut down other posters.

With regards to you not saying the British press were against foreign drivers because they were foreign, your words were:

“The British media were biased against Schumacher, and Alonso, and Vettel, and Rosberg, and now Verstappen. You'd have to be living in cuckoo land to not recognise that.”

Which certainly reads an an implication towards xenophobia. Far be it from me to say elements of the British media aren’t xenophobic, because they certainly are, the insinuation in this case is clearly that Red Bull face bias because Verstappen is Dutch. Not because Verstappen and Horner have acted poorly on numerous occasions and been the beneficiaries of corrupt and incompetent stewardship, as well as actively participated in subverting the financial regulations governing the sport. Both of which bestowed championship winning advantages on them.

If having a contrarian opinion on the popularity, morality, or likability of anyone automatically means that person is living “rent free” in the opiner’s head, then I suppose we must all have a roster of tenants.

 

[hobbers]

You really didn’t address anything I said with anything even approaching a convincing rebuttal. The refrain of living in someone’s head “rent free” is an overused trope, deployed by respondents who have little in the way of a factual or compelling argument, so instead resort to terms of belittlement popularised by sheeple on social media. It’s use in this instance is no surprise as you rolled it out previously in this debate in an attempt to shut down other posters.

With regards to you not saying the British press were against foreign drivers because they were foreign, your words were:

“The British media were biased against Schumacher, and Alonso, and Vettel, and Rosberg, and now Verstappen. You'd have to be living in cuckoo land to not recognise that.”

Which certainly reads an an implication towards xenophobia. Far be it from me to say elements of the British media aren’t xenophobic, because they certainly are, the insinuation in this case is clearly that Red Bull face bias because Verstappen is Dutch. Not because Verstappen and Horner have acted poorly on numerous occasions and been the beneficiaries of corrupt and incompetent stewardship, as well as actively participated in subverting the financial regulations governing the sport. Both of which bestowed championship winning advantages on them.

If having a contrarian opinion on the popularity, morality, or likability of anyone automatically means that person is living “rent free” in the opiner’s head, then I suppose we must all have a roster of tenants.

If you wanted a convincing rebuttal you should have tempted me in with something resembling a cogent argument. Not just another of your furious rants about Horner and Max behaving like a team principal and F1 driver.

The verbose forum debater act is nice and all but your post history in last years thread kinda undermines it.