Fan Loyalty

Adebesi

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Football is a business. Increasingly so. A day doesnt go by when someone doesnt trot out the cliche about football not being what it was 10 years ago, 10 years ago they said the same thing, it is evolving all the time. But most of that change is seen on the football field, in terms of styles of play, in terms of application of the rules ("that would never have been a foul 10 years ago"), in terms of the number of foreigners in the league, the quality of football, the attitudes of the footballers and how accessible they are to fans.

How much has the experience of being a fan changed? And in particular, fan loyalty? There is one thing to put in here that falls into a similar category to the examples above: you hear that, back in yesteryear, when children were seen and not heard and you could leave your front door open and not fear being robbed, people used to go and watch whichever local team was playing at home, be that United or City, Liverpool or Everton, Arsenal or Spurs. Now football is more tribal, and with it there is, perhaps greater loyalty.

I have always found this a really interesting question because it is fundamentally related to the way football operates as a business. For a market to work, "consumers" have to be free to shop around. That keeps businesses - suppliers - honest. If Brand X is better than Brand Y, you buy Brand X, and that gives Y the incentive to improve, either on quality, on price, on something else or a combination of things.

And back to football. Perhaps a subsequent phase in the evolution of football will require "fans" or "supporters" will need to become more "consumers of the product that is football".

There are several things going on in football right now that keep leading me back to this thought. The older one is the whole Glazer thing, that is a bit outdated now, most people dont care about it much any more, even those of us who did a few years ago. But this is the context in which I first started thinking about this, many years ago. It is all well and good sitting in the stands wearing Green and Gold. The club would take taken more notice (whether that is a good or bad thing is another discussion) if fans had taken their business elsewhere. Some did, to FCUM. But this was a difficult step for many to take.

As I said, this is all a bit passe now. But the thought came back to me in recent days because of the way people have responded to the Van Gaal regime. More than a few "why dont you piss off and support City" comments have been thrown around in the last few weeks. This is usually said in anger. But is there a serious underlying point?

If it is true that United has honourable traditions in the way we play football, and if that is the reason a section of fans support the club, is there a chance they will drift away - especially if the change is enduring? If people are paying to be entertained, and if another team is playing more entertaining football than we are, are they entitled to take their custom elsewhere? It seems a stretch at the moment, because of fan loyalty. But would football benefit if this attitude evolved in the way other aspects of the sport have? It would certainly encourage clubs to pay more attention to what their fans want if they were fighting to retain their support.

Things are never quite so neat, but you could in theory see a team develop a win at all costs strategy, and another develop a beautiful football strategy, and then fans could pay their money and make their choice. No more arguments about "winning versus style" on the terraces or in chatrooms, because people could vote with their feet.

Having said all this, I cant see it happening, certainly not the neat, market-purist vision I just outlined. But stranger things have happened. Evolution is a slow but incredibly powerful force and sometimes where you end up can seem very strange compared to where things started. But it is also unpredictable. I think fan loyalty will evolve but it is probably impossible to predict exactly how.

I think the first stage of it though is increasing dissatisfaction with the Premier League. I might be completely wrong but this is just the evidence I have seen with my own eyes. This is best exemplified by two good friends of mine. The first is a Chelsea fan. He moved out of London and decided to start going to watch a lower division local team, partly for practical reasons and partly because he found Chelsea increasingly boring - not only in terms of football style, but the whole "Top 4" dominance and predictability thing.

The other is a more interesting case. He is a Swansea fan. After the Swans got into the PL he was initially ecstatic. But gradually he has drifted away from the club. He still nominally supports them but he just doesnt care like he used to. He feels disconnected from the club, it is harder to get tickets, the atmosphere is less fun and he finds he just doesnt care about it like he used to. Probably partly it is down to age and other priorities, but he insists it is more fun supporting a lower league club.

What I find interesting in both these cases is they are, in a sense, an inversion of glory hunting. Both people drifted away from their clubs (though they would both describe themselves as fans or supporters of the clubs they grew up following) because success turned them off. They wanted something smaller scale that they could feel more connected to. It wasnt about winning or even beautiful football, it was about a sense of belonging. I think for a lot of people the PL has become too corporate and they feel distant from it.

I dont know whether this is a trend or just something that happened to two friends of mine, coincidentally. But it has given me the sense that the money that continues to pump into the PL, while making it bigger and more powerful all the time, will also contribute to its demise. So the most immediate threat to fan loyalty will perhaps come from increasing apathy. United fans wont leave to become City fans in search of entertainment. But they might stop going to watch United. And they might start taking their kids to see their local side.

It will be interesting to see whether and how loyalty among fans has evolved in 10-20 years.
 
From an overseas fan perspective, It has become more global. I see more jerseys and clothing than I did 10 years before. Most of them 'like football' as against 'like a particular club'. Glory hunter is too easy a term, but I think their support is more on watching an attractive game, and not always on winning though these tend to go together most of the time. The success of South korea and Japan in WC boosted the popularity in Asia manyfold.
 
Great OP. I think we're a long way away from adults supporting a number of different top flight clubs over time. Might never happen. However, inter-generational shifts will happen and that's why clubs need to care about style as well as substance. Getting my 6 year old to fall in love with Van Gaal's United is a real struggle. That's a potential lifelong fan they're losing right there.
 
To me being a fan, a real fan is defined by the emotional bound that you have with the club, not the team, not the manager, not the owner but the club.

I grew up a fan of my local Rugby team, it was a little club without money, with a little stadium (1000 seats), a little club house where you could meet the players, and that club changed totally and is now one of the richest clubs in TOP 14 with a big new stadium. It's different, very different but it's still that club who played in a little stadium and could only dream of success or fame.
 
Living in the U.S. and seeing what a commercial monster the NFL has become it's obvious that that's is what the PL is trying to be and that's going to suck for most hardcore supporters (if you're on redcafe then in my book you probably care a decent bit about your club).

Not many people really support NfL teams ok not even kidding, it's mostly players. So let's say Hazard comes to us, most people only care about that and root for him.

Now one interesting thing is in the PL the same thing can be said about coaches unlike the NfL.

The short version is the league will become more about drama and player v player spats and coach v coach drama and increasingly less about the football.

Prices will continue to rise for tickets right now if I wanted to go see either NY NFL team with a date, I'd spend easily $300 maybe more, and I would not be surprised to see more hardcores go support non league as a chance to feel connected to the club.

You will see more sponsorship, "let's take a look at the sharpe instant replay of that one" and come and take a seat in the interview zone sponsored by Pepsi Wayne.


/cynical rant.
 
I don't know whether this has always been there or it's only rearing its head now, but the whole double scarf and double colour shirts are a reflection of this shift in loyalties?
 
It's difficult to be loyal when there are so many great clubs to choose from.
 
It's difficult to be loyal when there are so many great clubs to choose from.

It's not, it's like with women, you find one that you like and you keep her.
 
It's not, it's like with women, you find one that you like and you keep her.
Some people find loyalty to their women quite difficult as well. You know how it goes. You go out, you start drinking, the next thing you know youre waking up the next morning and youre in Birmingham, you have a Villa match stub in your pocket, you cant really remember much about it but you have an all-consuming feeling of guilt.
 
It's different for different people but the "evolution" of the game hasn't affected my love of Man Utd in the slightest.

I appreciate why some people have drifted away from United. Following any football club is a matter of the heart not the head. When you stop to think about it you realise, in many ways, its a bit crazy. You spend your hard earned money, money you need to support yourself and your family, making the owners and staff (including millionaire players) richer. I can see why some people feel its all one way, because in reality it pretty much is, and how that led to the creation of FC United and stuff.

Football is expensive, the fans are exploited for commercial gain, and at the end of the day we're literally nothing more than a source of income to the Glazers and the players. Their PR people may make them say otherwise, and some of the players might genuinely believe it, but in reality we all know the truth.

The thing is I really don't care. I should, thinking about it, but for me United is about feeling not thinking. Its emotions, its memories. When I think of myself as a kid I think of the games, the replica kits, turning my collar up and trying to be Eric. As long as I live I'll have these memories. I'll remember Bruce ending the hurt, I'll remember Eric chipping the keeper at Sheffield United, I'll remember trying to kung fu kick people after the thing at Palace, I'll remember how devastated I was when we sold Kanchelskis (my favourite player at the time), I'll remember Eric coming back against Liverpool and swinging on one of the posts behind the net, and it goes on.

It doesn't really make sense but because of that there's no real reason to stop supporting United. I'm not supporting United for any reason. I'm doing it because it taps into something a bit unreasonable. I reckon football is like that for a lot of people. That won't always lead to loyalty mind you. Sometimes there will be fans who just want to feel like winners and they identify as United one season and jump ship the next. Still, I think once you have spent a certain period of time backing a club, and forming those memories and affections for it, its tough to give it up.

It's not, it's like with women, you find one that you like and you keep her.

I think @Needham was being sarcastic.
 
Some people find loyalty to their women quite difficult as well. You know how it goes. You go out, you start drinking, the next thing you know youre waking up the next morning and youre in Birmingham, you have a Villa match stub in your pocket, you cant really remember much about it but you have an all-consuming feeling of guilt.

You are right, but at some point they have to realize that it's pointless. I believe in Epicureanism, the pleasure is in the balance between bad and good, you gain nothing at running after pleasure 100% of the time.
 
I got quite sidetracked in my OP and started rambling about all sorts of stuff but the real point I wanted to make was the bit about people demanding "entertainment" (as opposed to "success") and how some people feel a sense of entitlement to that, given the money they spend. I just think this is a concept that is interesting and worth exploring.

If people pay their money for entertainment, and they feel that entertainment derives from attacking football, width, shots on goal or whatever, you can make an argument that, if they are not getting that, they should go and watch a team that plays the way they want to see the game be played. Obviously it doesnt work like that. But I wonder if, over time, it will. At the moment it doesnt because things change very slowly, they react very slowly. But football is changing, fans are changing, expectations are changing. So loyalty, in response to that, may change too.

Or maybe saying it is about wanting to be entertained is a bit too much of a simplification and actually misleads. Maybe it is still about "belonging", not entertaining. That concept is far stickier, but there is less entitlement. You arent automatically entitled to entertainment because you pay your money, though you can hope for it. You stick through the club through ups and downs. That is usually associated with success but it can be about entertainment too.
 
You are right, but at some point they have to realize that it's pointless. I believe in Epicureanism, the pleasure is in the balance between bad and good, you gain nothing at running after pleasure 100% of the time.
Oh definitely. You need the lows to enjoy the highs. If you have too much of something and it becomes normal you stop deriving the same pleasure from it.

The only bit I would slightly question is the bit about running after pleasure. Im not sure its the chasing it, but the attainment of it, that you have to regulate. I think chasing happiness all the time is OK as long as the chase is not the happiness itself.
 
@Adebesi That's how I understood your OP, and even though I believe that Football should be entertaining, I don't think that a real fan can trade his loyalty. A fan of football or any other sport have to understand that every clubs, franchises will have rough times in term of entertainment or results and if you give your loyalty to a club you have to accept every sides of it.

A spectator isn't necessarily a fan, if your "loyalty" is tradable than you are not a fan, you are a spectator, a consumer.
 
Fabulous OP. Disillusionment is understandable, going back to basics is understandable. There is a sterility about modern football, the great pitches (generally) the sprinklers, the neat spotless kits - at half time (thank God we still have Jones heading the balls he should be kicking!). I think in a way Barcelona are a good model of how you can become super corporate and still stay in touch with the fans and Manchester United ought to be thinking very hard about these kinds of things. Sure you can sell shirts in Asia. Sure you can do US tours. @Mibabalou makes a good point too about the developments in terms of loyalty in the NFL. Personally I almost cling to the stable elements on the deck of HMS United; Carrick, Rooney (and that's why I defend those two especially in here). Smalling now, I suppose. The young players being brought in is encouraging. I liked Mata straight away, and Basti, too. RVP seemed to come and go too fast. But I do feel a strong bond of loyalty to United. I have a go at SAF plenty (once I recognised his all to human failings adjustment took a while) but deep down I have a lot of regard for him. Part of me thinks I should do more to support a local team, but I am still fascinated, even captivated, by the destiny of Manchester United. There is something especially interesting about this particular moment in history. This is the point when United (and the other elite English clubs) seem to measure themselves more than ever by comparison with European sides. Why is there a gap, when the money is about the same? You almost have to look at it from Jose or Louis' perspective. 'I have done it in La Liga, or the Bundesliga, but can I do it there?' There, where they play Atlantean as opposed to Mediterranean footie; there, where it is wet, and cold, and you have no Christmas break, and hell-for leather defending and not a second on the ball? It seems to still hold an attraction, an almost magical charm. It's a mixture in a way of oil and water; slick Euro philosophy on the wet night in Stoke. So yes, good governance is needed, the fans need to be taken into consideration. The whole edifice of super-deals with sponsors, TV companies, will always be in flux. I think International football will face something of crisis in the years ahead. In terms of fan loyalty and United, the future is by no means guaranteed.
 
Fabulous OP. Disillusionment is understandable, going back to basics is understandable. There is a sterility about modern football, the great pitches (generally) the sprinklers, the neat spotless kits - at half time (thank God we still have Jones heading the balls he should be kicking!). I think in a way Barcelona are a good model of how you can become super corporate and still stay in touch with the fans and Manchester United ought to be thinking very hard about these kinds of things. Sure you can sell shirts in Asia. Sure you can do US tours. @Mibabalou makes a good point too about the developments in terms of loyalty in the NFL. Personally I almost cling to the stable elements on the deck of HMS United; Carrick, Rooney (and that's why I defend those two especially in here). Smalling now, I suppose. The young players being brought in is encouraging. I liked Mata straight away, and Basti, too. RVP seemed to come and go too fast. But I do feel a strong bond of loyalty to United. I have a go at SAF plenty (once I recognised his all to human failings adjustment took a while) but deep down I have a lot of regard for him. Part of me thinks I should do more to support a local team, but I am still fascinated, even captivated, by the destiny of Manchester United. There is something especially interesting about this particular moment in history. This is the point when United (and the other elite English clubs) seem to measure themselves more than ever by comparison with European sides. Why is there a gap, when the money is about the same? You almost have to look at it from Jose or Louis' perspective. 'I have done it in La Liga, or the Bundesliga, but can I do it there?' There, where they play Atlantean as opposed to Mediterranean footie; there, where it is wet, and cold, and you have no Christmas break, and hell-for leather defending and not a second on the ball? It seems to still hold an attraction, an almost magical charm. It's a mixture in a way of oil and water; slick Euro philosophy on the wet night in Stoke. So yes, good governance is needed, the fans need to be taken into consideration. The whole edifice of super-deals with sponsors, TV companies, will always be in flux. I think International football will face something of crisis in the years ahead. In terms of fan loyalty and United, the future is by no means guaranteed.
As a spectacle it has become all too similarly reproduced. Music has died a little since the perfection of electronic forms of sound reproduction and although football players aren't yet electronic or perfect in their representation they are actually technically more accomplished than their same selves in the FIFA electronic games (apart from Fellaini). Modern football is too often a mere simulacrum of what you imagine a tremendously honed and reasonably talented team of athletes might produce. The game could do with some shite pitches, beer bellied midfielders, and goalkeepers attacked merrily by Celtic fans at Old Trafford. All it's got now are Mourinho press conferences.
 
As a spectacle it has become all too similarly reproduced. Music has died a little since the perfection of electronic forms of sound reproduction and although football players aren't yet electronic or perfect in their representation they are actually technically more accomplished than their same selves in the FIFA electronic games (apart from Fellaini). Modern football is too often a mere simulacrum of what you imagine a tremendously honed and reasonably talented team of athletes might produce. The game could do with some shite pitches, beer bellied midfielders, and goalkeepers attacked merrily by Celtic fans at Old Trafford. All it's got now are Mourinho press conferences.
The music business comparison is a great one. Firstly there is the analogue/digital point of departure. There is then mastering and compression which tries to cover the spectrum and fills every inch with sound. The radio is a relentless roar. And there is sampling, auto-tune and formulaic tune structure. It means one bit of music is essentially the same as the next, one auto-tuned boy band singer is as good as the next, etc etc. Back in the day, be it the Beatles or Bolan, or even the jazzers, or punk or whatever, there was humanity, mistakes, dynamics, the equivalent of the beer-bellied midfielders. Another aspect is banking. Banking depends on belief, it hangs on a promise. Yet banks don't seem to realise the importance - belief-wise, theatre wise - of an actual human being to engage with Mrs B, to meet her at the counter, to waste time discussing her cold. Likewise with football, it needs to be made immediate, visceral, human, to maintain our interest and passion. One size most definitely does not fit all.