Fantasy Tournament: World Cup All-Time All-Stars

Mario Coluna

Pol 1. Maradona 2. P. Maldini 3. Breitner 4. Zizinho 5. Boniek
Cal 1. Pelé 2. Sándor Kocsis 3. Gérson 4. Blanc 5. Overath
Aldo 1. Garrincha 2. Romário 3. Scirea 4. Gentile 5. Kempes
Theon 1. Beckenbauer 2. Zico 3. Baggio 4. Kohler 5. R. Carlos
Rpitroda 1. Zidane 2. Masopust 3. Varela 4. Desailly 5. Batistuta
Paceme 1. Platini 2. Rijkaard 3. Djalma Santos 4. Thuram 5. Tigana
Jayvin 1. Ronaldo 2. Cannavaro 3. Rivaldo 4. Brehme 5. Vieira 6. Coluna
Desert 1.Moore 2. Meazza 3. Passarella 4. Busquets 5. Makélélé 6.Pirlo
Annah 1. Didi 2. Iniesta 3. Ronaldinho 4. Stoichkov 5. Leonidas 6. Lahm
Crappy/Pippa 1. Fontaine 2. Krol 3. Kopa 4. Vogts 5. Dunga 6. Ruggeri
Fergus 1. Matthäus 2. Falcao 3. Rivelino 4. Nilson Santos 5. Karlheinz Förster 6. Chumpitaz
Balu/NM 1. Cruyff 2. Jairzinho 3. Carlos Alberto 4. Davids 5. Silvio Marzolini 6. Frank de Boer
Anto 1. Puskas 2. Neeskens 3. Bozsik 4. Czibor 5. Ghiggia 6. Junior
Gio. 1. Eusebio 2. Figueroa 3. Laudrup 4. Xavi 5. Keane 6. Da Guia
Cutch 1. Müller 2. Facchetti 3. Cafu 4. Santamaría 5. Cubillas 6. Bergomi
TITO 1. Charlton 2. Baresi 3. Zanetti 4. Schnellinger 5. Tardelli 6. Paolo Rossi​
 
Pol 1. Maradona 2. P. Maldini 3. Breitner 4. Zizinho 5. Boniek
Cal 1. Pelé 2. Sándor Kocsis 3. Gérson 4. Blanc 5. Overath
Aldo 1. Garrincha 2. Romário 3. Scirea 4. Gentile 5. Kempes
Theon 1. Beckenbauer 2. Zico 3. Baggio 4. Kohler 5. R. Carlos
Rpitroda 1. Zidane 2. Masopust 3. Varela 4. Desailly 5. Batistuta
Paceme 1. Platini 2. Rijkaard 3. Djalma Santos 4. Thuram 5. Tigana 6. Ademir
Jayvin 1. Ronaldo 2. Cannavaro 3. Rivaldo 4. Brehme 5. Vieira 6. Coluna
Desert 1.Moore 2. Meazza 3. Passarella 4. Busquets 5. Makélélé 6.Pirlo
Annah 1. Didi 2. Iniesta 3. Ronaldinho 4. Stoichkov 5. Leonidas 6. Lahm
Crappy/Pippa 1. Fontaine 2. Krol 3. Kopa 4. Vogts 5. Dunga 6. Ruggeri
Fergus 1. Matthäus 2. Falcao 3. Rivelino 4. Nilson Santos 5. Karlheinz Förster 6. Chumpitaz
Balu/NM 1. Cruyff 2. Jairzinho 3. Carlos Alberto 4. Davids 5. Silvio Marzolini 6. Frank de Boer
Anto 1. Puskas 2. Neeskens 3. Bozsik 4. Czibor 5. Ghiggia 6. Junior
Gio. 1. Eusebio 2. Figueroa 3. Laudrup 4. Xavi 5. Keane 6. Da Guia
Cutch 1. Müller 2. Facchetti 3. Cafu 4. Santamaría 5. Cubillas 6. Bergomi
TITO 1. Charlton 2. Baresi 3. Zanetti 4. Schnellinger 5. Tardelli 6. Paolo Rossi​
 
Pol 1. Maradona 2. P. Maldini 3. Breitner 4. Zizinho 5. Boniek
Cal 1. Pelé 2. Sándor Kocsis 3. Gérson 4. Blanc 5. Overath
Aldo 1. Garrincha 2. Romário 3. Scirea 4. Gentile 5. Kempes
Theon 1. Beckenbauer 2. Zico 3. Baggio 4. Kohler 5. R. Carlos
Rpitroda 1. Zidane 2. Masopust 3. Varela 4. Desailly 5. Batistuta 6. Nasazzi
Paceme 1. Platini 2. Rijkaard 3. Djalma Santos 4. Thuram 5. Tigana 6. Ademir
Jayvin 1. Ronaldo 2. Cannavaro 3. Rivaldo 4. Brehme 5. Vieira 6. Coluna
Desert 1.Moore 2. Meazza 3. Passarella 4. Busquets 5. Makélélé 6.Pirlo
Annah 1. Didi 2. Iniesta 3. Ronaldinho 4. Stoichkov 5. Leonidas 6. Lahm
Crappy/Pippa 1. Fontaine 2. Krol 3. Kopa 4. Vogts 5. Dunga 6. Ruggeri
Fergus 1. Matthäus 2. Falcao 3. Rivelino 4. Nilson Santos 5. Karlheinz Förster 6. Chumpitaz
Balu/NM 1. Cruyff 2. Jairzinho 3. Carlos Alberto 4. Davids 5. Silvio Marzolini 6. Frank de Boer
Anto 1. Puskas 2. Neeskens 3. Bozsik 4. Czibor 5. Ghiggia 6. Junior
Gio. 1. Eusebio 2. Figueroa 3. Laudrup 4. Xavi 5. Keane 6. Da Guia
Cutch 1. Müller 2. Facchetti 3. Cafu 4. Santamaría 5. Cubillas 6. Bergomi
TITO 1. Charlton 2. Baresi 3. Zanetti 4. Schnellinger 5. Tardelli 6. Paolo Rossi
 
rpitroda said:
Jose Nasazzi - a golden ball winner.
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Was very close to pick him. Spent about 20 minutes thinking over it. Pippa thinks it is not necessary that defenders who played in a different system all together pre war, can adapt to modern day formation. What do people here think?
 
crappycraperson said:
Was very close to pick him. Spent about 20 minutes thinking over it. Pippa thinks it is not necessary that defenders who played in a different system all together pre war, can adapt to modern day formation. What do people here think?
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I think that's a poor argument because that effectively means you cannot compare generations. In reality, I don't think any player could play in previous generations or future generations. Could Ronaldo handle the harder tackles or even kick the football as he does today with an old football? Would Pele be even better if he had modern techniques and technology to support him? If you start going down that road then fundamentally the draft becomes ridiculous. Every person in the world who plays football knows who Messi is. But back in the day players were often unknown to the opposition you were facing - would Pele have tormented teams around the world if they'd had more opportunity to analyse him? I think the only way you can judge it is by saying how did these players stand out in relation to their generation and era. If we technically go down a road to say could they play together, you'd find that none of these teams would work.
 
rpitroda said:
I think that's a poor argument because that effectively means you cannot compare generations. In reality, I don't think any player could play in previous generations or future generations. Could Ronaldo handle the harder tackles or even kick the football as he does today with an old football? Would Pele be even better if he had modern techniques and technology to support him? If you start going down that road then fundamentally the draft becomes ridiculous. Every person in the world who plays football knows who Messi is. But back in the day players were often unknown to the opposition you were facing - would Pele have tormented teams around the world if they'd had more opportunity to analyse him? I think the only way you can judge it is by saying how did these players stand out in relation to their generation and era. If we technically go down a road to say could they play together, you'd find that none of these teams would work.
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I sort of agree, it is just that is not as straight forward to pin down players from that era in current roles.
 
Quick question - what are the rules on changing picks? I'm thinking of changing Nasazzi as I have a different player I've just thought of. Is it ok to change given no one has picked after me?
 
rpitroda said:
Quick question - what are the rules on changing picks? I'm thinking of changing Nasazzi as I have a different player I've just thought of. Is it ok to change given no one has picked after me?
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Some one who has played drafts before can comment on this.. @AldoPaine18
 
rpitroda said:
I think that's a poor argument because that effectively means you cannot compare generations. In reality, I don't think any player could play in previous generations or future generations. Could Ronaldo handle the harder tackles or even kick the football as he does today with an old football? Would Pele be even better if he had modern techniques and technology to support him? If you start going down that road then fundamentally the draft becomes ridiculous. Every person in the world who plays football knows who Messi is. But back in the day players were often unknown to the opposition you were facing - would Pele have tormented teams around the world if they'd had more opportunity to analyse him? I think the only way you can judge it is by saying how did these players stand out in relation to their generation and era. If we technically go down a road to say could they play together, you'd find that none of these teams would work.
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It's not a very poor argument. You can't compare the WC of 1930 to the current ones. Uruguay and Argentina were the only two teams competing. They both won their semi-final game 6-1. Uruguay played 4 matched to win it. Now a days you have to play 7. There's a huge difference.
 
crappycraperson said:
Was very close to pick him. Spent about 20 minutes thinking over it. Pippa thinks it is not necessary that defenders who played in a different system all together pre war, can adapt to modern day formation. What do people here think?
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For me, the problem with pre-war players is that we really really don't know anything about them besides an award, stories about leadership or one single decisive moment. I don't mind someone picking him and individually I give the name the credit he deserves, but the manager still needs to convince me that he actually knows him and his abilities and uses him the right way. It's not about him playing in a crazy formation back then, it's about what he actually did when he played. I really honour if the manager puts the effort in to learn about the player and then shares what he learned (or already knows), that's great team building, that's what earns my vote instead of a team full of big names without a great idea behind. If I get the impression, he's just picked because of a stupid award, then I probably consider him more like a modern player wrongly used by the manager, still a good player, but I can't imagine him bringing to the team what he earned him his reputation back then. It's like someone partnering Scirea and Beckenbauer as the 2 centerbacks in a back 4, looks like brilliant players on paper, but there's no way you'd see the best of either of them.

So I think it's really different to the 'Pele in the modern game' - discussion. I know Pele was a physical beast in his time, so I give him credit for it. I know about his pace, his ability on the ball in comparison to other players of his time. That doesn't change, if he's used in a modern formation in a comparable position on better pitches with lighter balls. I don't know that about any pre-war player, it's a huge gamble on his reputation most of the time and therefore sounds like a lazy pick because of the restrictions of this draft to me. Convince me that it's really not and that you picked him, because you researched him, and your in a good position to earn my vote. I think there are quite a few players from the 50, 54 and 58 worldcups that deserve to be picked, but it's already incredibly hard to learn about them, because there's so few footage available. It's almost impossible for the pre-war worldcups, for which more often than not the qualification wasn't even about being a good enough team, but finding a way to travel to another continent.
 
rpitroda said:
Quick question - what are the rules on changing picks? I'm thinking of changing Nasazzi as I have a different player I've just thought of. Is it ok to change given no one has picked after me?
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Personally I think it's fine if you do it before the next pick is made. It's up to Pol though.
 
crappycraperson said:
Some one who has played drafts before can comment on this.. @AldoPaine18
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Pol is running this one so it's up to him. Earlier we have not had an issue if someone wanted to change seconds after picking but in the last one there was an issue when Brwned wanted to change it after people didn't react well to his choice.

So it's a bit of a grey area and Pol needs to make the call.
 
Balu said:
For me, the problem with pre-war players is that we really really don't know anything about them besides an award, stories about leadership or one single decisive moment. I don't mind someone picking him and individually I give the name the credit he deserves, but the manager still needs to convince me that he actually knows him and his abilities and uses him the right way. It's not about him playing in a crazy formation back then, it's about what he actually did when he played. I really honour if the manager puts the effort in to learn about the player and then shares what he learned (or already knows), that's great team building, that's what earns my vote instead of a team full of big names without a great idea behind. If I get the impression, he's just picked because of a stupid award, then I probably consider him more like a modern player wrongly used by the manager, still a good player, but I can't imagine him bringing to the team what he earned him his reputation back then. It's like someone partnering Scirea and Beckenbauer as the 2 centerbacks in a back 4, looks like brilliant players on paper, but there's no way you'd see the best of either of them.

So I think it's really different to the 'Pele in the modern game' - discussion. I know Pele was a physical beast in his time, so I give him credit for it. I know about his pace, his ability on the ball in comparison to other players of his time. That doesn't change, if he's used in a modern formation in a comparable position. I don't know that about any pre-war player, it's a huge gamble on his reputation most of the time and therefore sounds like a lazy pick because of the restrictions of this draft to me. Convince me that it's really not and that you picked him, because you researched him, and your in a good position to earn my vote.
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This is sort of what I meant but was too write a long winded explanation. A classic case is those who played inside forwards. I think those players can fit all three positions of winger, AM and striker in modern game as long as they have the requisite attributes (or more correctly showed those attributes in the WC) of the same or if they fit in with manager's plan for the position they are put in.
 
Snow said:
It's not a very poor argument. You can't compare the WC of 1930 to the current ones. Uruguay and Argentina were the only two teams competing. They both won their semi-final game 6-1. Uruguay played 4 matched to win it. Now a days you have to play 7. There's a huge difference.
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No one is denying that there is a difference between the first and the last WC, what he said and I agreed to is that if you do want to religiously take that into account, playing any all time draft is completely pointless.
 
I don wanna be too harsh but I think the pick should stand now since there has already been a discussion on it. Nothing personal rpitroda, just what I feel.
 
I don't care if someone changes his pick if no one has picked after him. Shouldn't happen on a regular basis though, maybe we should allow every manager once to change his pick in these circumstances?
 
crappycraperson said:
I don wanna be too harsh but I think the pick should stand now since there has already been a discussion on it. Nothing personal rpitroda, just what I feel.
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Yeah agreed.

I think we agreed in the last one that to avoid anything of the sort that happened with Brwned we just consider that once a pick is posted here it's set in stone.
 
Balu said:
I don't care if someone changes his pick if no one has picked after him. Shouldn't happen on a regular basis though, maybe we should allow every manager once to change his pick in these circumstances?
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It's not a big problem but as you said it sets a bad precedent.
 
Balu said:
I don't care if someone changes his pick if no one has picked after him. Shouldn't happen on a regular basis though, maybe we should allow every manager once to change his pick in these circumstances?
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That can't be implemented fairly across the board. Suppose some posts a pick and wants to change it but by then the person next to him has already posted his pick. What do you do then? Some people may have as much as 8 hours to post a pick, some may have next to no time.
 
crappycraperson said:
That can't be implemented fairly across the board. Suppose some posts a pick and wants to change it but by then the person next to him has already posted his pick. What do you do then? Some people may have as much as 8 hours to post a pick, some may have next to no time.
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Bad luck? Shit happens, some get the players they want, some don't, some are picking first, some last. I don't mind if we don't allow it, it's certainly the better way. Just don't think it's a big deal, if we allow it once for everyone.
 
crappycraperson said:
Was very close to pick him. Spent about 20 minutes thinking over it. Pippa thinks it is not necessary that defenders who played in a different system all together pre war, can adapt to modern day formation. What do people here think?
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Same would apply to Da Guia. I think it's nonsense, particularly when it would be much easier to play CB in a 4 or 5 backline than fullback (that's what the two guys holding the fort at the back used to be called). Truth is the fullbacks and centrehalves formed a back 5 against the rival front 5, and vice-versa.

What was really different in pre-war football was how much it was about two sets of 5 players, 5 defending and 5 attacking, with little in between. The major innovators bridging that gap would be the box-to-box (more end to end) side halfbacks, the backtracking wingers and the DLPs (Bozsik). I don't see how the old fullback role is fundamentally different (or easier/requiring less skill) than the modern CB job.

As my grandad used to say about the Italians in the 80s: "It's easy to keep clean sheets with a back five". He did eventually come to agree Baresi was some player anyway.
 
antohan said:
He was the one I was referring to. Hadn't even planed to get him originally as I doubted he would be knocking about this late. Great pick.
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Thanks. Credit goes to pippa, he brought him up. He really should be fast tracked to mains, has great knowledge.
 
rpitroda said:
Quick question - what are the rules on changing picks? I'm thinking of changing Nasazzi as I have a different player I've just thought of. Is it ok to change given no one has picked after me?
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Pol's official stance in previous games has been that a pick has not been made until you have updated the overall list of picks. You have, so it's nailed.
 
Snow said:
It's not a very poor argument. You can't compare the WC of 1930 to the current ones. Uruguay and Argentina were the only two teams competing. They both won their semi-final game 6-1. Uruguay played 4 matched to win it. Now a days you have to play 7. There's a huge difference.
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You can't hold that stuff aganst teams or their players, they can only beat what is in front of them. Re: 1930, Uruguay and Argentina were light-years ahead of Europe and had proven that at the Olympics in 1924 (Uruguay shat on everyone) and 1928 (Uruguay and Argentina shat on everyone and played the final there to).

In 1950 two of Uruguay's group stage rivals dropped out before the tourno. France complained about the distances to be travelled... Is it Uruguay's fault they chickened out? As proven in 1954, Uruguay had it in them to make the final stages anyway. If anything, the players were robbed of the opportunity to stack up more goals to their name.
 
antohan said:
Pol's official stance in previous games has been that a pick has not been made until you have updated the overall list of picks. You have, so it's nailed.
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That said, I would stick to "once you posted it, it's yours" to avoid another Brwnedgate.

Pol's rule is more designed to force people to update the list, he used to go mental at people not doing it so it was more a veiled threat that you would lose your pick if you didn't do the admin.
 
Bollocks, I can see one of Pol or Fergus taking the centreforward I want.
 
antohan said:
You can't hold that stuff aganst teams or their players, they can only beat what is in front of them. Re: 1930, Uruguay and Argentina were light-years ahead of Europe and had proven that at the Olympics in 1924 (Uruguay shat on everyone) and 1928 (Uruguay and Argentina shat on everyone and played the final there to).

In 1950 two of Uruguay's group stage rivals dropped out before the tourno. France complained about the distances to be travelled... Is it Uruguay's fault they chickened out? As proven in 1954, Uruguay had it in them to make the final stages anyway. If anything, the players were robbed of the opportunity to stack up more goals to their name.
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I'm certainly going to hold it against a player that played in a two team tournament. I've got absolutely zero way of knowing the player quality. The team played 4 games and scored 15 goals. How on Earth are you going to argue in favor of the players that played there? The only thing you can say is that they were the best at that tournament. Well, I value being the best at the later tournaments higher.

There's no one forcing people to draft players from that tournament. Not like they're selling like hot cakes to begin with.
 
rpitroda said:
Quick question - what are the rules on changing picks? I'm thinking of changing Nasazzi as I have a different player I've just thought of. Is it ok to change given no one has picked after me?
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I do not mind managers changing their picks if they do it before the next manager makes his pick and before others make comments which may or may not have influenced the change of mind.

In your case, it was a little late - as your change of mind was close to an hour after you have picked, crappy had already commented on your pick. I am sorry you have to stick to your pick or the floodgates would open for the rest.
 
Polaroid said:
I do not mind managers changing their picks if they do it before the next manager makes his pick and before others make comments which may or may not have influenced the change of mind.

In your case, it was a little late - as your change of mind was close to an hour after you have picked, crappy had already commented on your pick. I am sorry you have to stick to your pick or the floodgates would open for the rest.
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His pick didn't change my mind - I'm still debating with pippa. Just thought of a player I'd rather have had.
 
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