Fantasy Tournament: World Cup All-Time All-Stars

JaffyJoe said:
It must be hard to not pick players who were great and fro some reason or another couldn't get it together for a wc. The later rounds will includethese kind of picks surely.
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Yeah certainly this have influenced everything. The teams and players that did well in '10 and '06 are hardly picked because of this reason. People know it would be hard to sell say Zambrotta when people already have a strong opinion on him based on his other career.

So it is a fine line to walk, whoever walked it with the best balance will win this. There are so many different ideas on how this line was supposed to be walked which is why we have very different teams. If the majority of voters appreciate really old teams and team cohesion then Antohan is going to win this easily - if they however consider famous names regardless of WC performance then we have Rijkaard/Messi/C.Ronaldo picked whos teams will be the favorites.
 
Balu said:
I still think that's harsh on his worldcup in 82, he was brilliant in the beginning, just got unlucky with his injury during the tournament.
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I feel like I'm going to have to be singing from this hymn sheet an awful lot come match day!
 
Annahnomoss said:
Yeah certainly this have influenced everything. The teams and players that did well in '10 and '06 are hardly picked because of this reason. People know it would be hard to sell say Zambrotta when people already have a strong opinion on him based on his other career.

So it is a fine line to walk, whoever walked it with the best balance will win this. There are so many different ideas on how this line was supposed to be walked which is why we have very different teams. If the majority of voters appreciate really old teams and team cohesion then Antohan is going to win this easily - if they however consider famous names regardless of WC performance then we have Rijkaard/Messi/C.Ronaldo picked whos teams will be the favorites.
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Do we have a thread here to discuss old football (For me pre 1990) ?? There are some really knowledgeable guys on the caf.
 
JaffyJoe said:
It must be hard to not pick players who were great and fro some reason or another couldn't get it together for a wc. The later rounds will includethese kind of picks surely.
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It isn't really, having been in a few drafts I can tell you that creating a great team that really fits the criteria is the most satisfying thing about it all.
 
JaffyJoe said:
Do we have a thread here to discuss old football (For me pre 1990) ?? There are some really knowledgeable guys on the caf.
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Just keep up with the fantasy draft threads. You really learn in depth when you participate in it from all the research but you will get a short review on every player in every match-day thread I am sure and you can ask questions there.
 
Annahnomoss said:
Just keep up with the fantasy draft threads. You really learn in depth when you participate in it from all the research but you will get a short review on every player in every match-day thread I am sure and you can ask questions there.
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I will, cheers.
 
Fergus' son said:
It isn't really, having been in a few drafts I can tell you that creating a great team that really fits the criteria is the most satisfying thing about it all.
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Yeah I can imagine, I recognise a few of your players. Selling them to voters who cba to read in depth reviews and tactics etc. will be the biggest task imo.
 
JaffyJoe said:
Yeah I can imagine, I recognise a few of your players. Selling them to voters who cba to read in depth reviews and tactics etc. will be the biggest task imo.
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Indeed.

I think we all accepted from before the draft began that this could happen with these particular stipulations anyway so it's all good. I like how you can see who has voted for who and it's always nice to pick up the votes from the other managers and keen followers, I shall be keeping an eye out for yours ;)

Like Annah has said, just keep up with the draft threads or search old ones and you'll learn a great deal. Or better yet, pencil yourself in for the next one! Most of the knowledge I use to make my picks has come from various to and fros with her posters over the course of the last few drafts, sometimes learning the hard way!
 
Fergus' son said:
Indeed.

I think we all accepted from before the draft began that this could happen with these particular stipulations anyway so it's all good. I like how you can see who has voted for who and it's always nice to pick up the votes from the other managers and keen followers, I shall be keeping an eye out for yours ;)

Like Annah has said, just keep up with the draft threads or search old ones and you'll learn a great deal. Or better yet, pencil yourself in for the next one! Most of the knowledge I use to make my picks has come from various to and fros with her posters over the course of the last few drafts, sometimes learning the hard way!
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:lol:

Where do Platini/Zidane/Laudrup stand in the pantheon of great players?
 
JaffyJoe said:
:lol:

Where do Platini/Zidane/Laudrup stand in the pantheon of great players?
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Platini is less rated than in an all time environment. Zidane is pretty unchanged and Laudrup is much worse than he would be in a EC/all time draft. He wasn't included in the team of the tournament until 1998 which was around the time of his retirement. He retired after only playing 36 games in 97-98 for Vissel Kobe then Ajax.

Considering Laudrup was 34 years old, he of course didn't have the physical skills necessary to be top draft - of course still a good tournament as he was included in team of the tournament.
 
Balu said:
I still think that's harsh on his worldcup in 82, he was brilliant in the beginning, just got unlucky with his injury during the tournament.
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It's a bit unfair but somehow being part of a stronger team does him no favours. France actually highlighted how important Zidane was when they went to shit without him in 2002. Argentina pretty much collapsed relative to their strong start in 1994 once Maradona was banned. We all know how injured players can be made greater if the team fails to perform in their absence. Germany? Nope, they carried on, so in people's minds that somehow dilutes how good and influential a player he could have been.

But then, you were arguing against Puskas because he was injured and Hungary still did well... It's a similar scenario, with the exception that 1954 didn't have a Rossi and samba football grabbing the headlines away. Puskas did score in the final even when on one leg though, and he also had a second wrongly ruled out for offside.
 
JaffyJoe said:
:lol:

Where do Platini/Zidane/Laudrup stand in the pantheon of great players?
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At the very very top, Platini is probably the best French player of all time IMO whilst Laudrup is one of my favourite number tens. Seriously, if you haven't already, check out some of his videos, stunning they are.

Zidane is probably the best of the lot in the context if the draft though, though arguably it should be his 2006 form which should be considered.
 
Pol 1. Maradona 2. P. Maldini 3. Breitner 4. Zizinho 5. Boniek 6. Ocwirk 7. Zito 8. Ferdinand 9. Cohen
Cal 1. Pelé 2. Sándor Kocsis 3. Gérson 4. Blanc 5. Overath 6. Cristiano Ronaldo 7. Lev Yashin 8. Lúcio 9. Leandro
Aldo 1. Garrincha 2. Romário 3. Scirea 4. Gentile 5. Kempes 6. Ballack 7. Lizarazu 8. Burgnich 9. Hidegkuti
Theon 1. Beckenbauer 2. Zico 3. Baggio 4. Kohler 5. R. Carlos 6. Socrates 7. Andrade 8. Van Hanegem 9. Maier
Rpitroda 1. Zidane 2. Masopust 3. Varela 4. Desailly 5. Batistuta 6. Nasazzi 7. Figo 8. Zoff 9. Eyzaguirre
Paceme 1. Platini 2. Rijkaard 3. Djalma Santos 4. Thuram 5. Tigana 6. Ademir 7. Cabrini 8. C. Maldini 9. Clodoaldo 10. Voronin
Jayvin 1. Ronaldo 2. Cannavaro 3. Rivaldo 4. Brehme 5. Vieira 6. Coluna 7. Schiaffino 8. Kahn 9. Julinho 10. Mauro Ramos
Desert 1.Moore 2. Meazza 3. Passarella 4. Busquets 5. Makélélé 6. Pirlo 7. Messi 8. Caniggia 9.Branco 10. Grosics
Annah 1. Didi 2. Iniesta 3. Ronaldinho 4. Stoichkov 5. Leonidas 6. Lahm 7. Vicente Lucas 8. Bellini 9. Stam 10. Zambrotta
Crappy/Pippa 1. Fontaine 2. Krol 3. Kopa 4. Vogts 5. Dunga 6. Ruggeri 7. Tarantini 8. Leonel Sanchez 9. Mauro Silva 10. Ricardo Zamora
Fergus 1. Matthäus 2. Falcao 3. Rivelino 4. Nilton Santos 5. Karlheinz Förster 6. Chumpitaz 7. Tostao 8. Manuel Amoros 9. Banks 10. Rummenigge
Balu/NM 1. Cruyff 2. Jairzinho 3. Carlos Alberto 4. Davids 5. Silvio Marzolini 6. Frank de Boer 7. Forlan 8. Gilmar 9. Ceulemans 10. Haan
Anto 1. Puskas 2. Neeskens 3. Bozsik 4. Czibor 5. Ghiggia 6. Junior 7. Mazurkiewicz 8. Gamarra 9. Seeler 10. Chilavert
Gio. 1. Eusebio 2. Figueroa 3. Laudrup 4. Xavi 5. Keane 6. Da Guia 7. Briegel 8. Lato 9. Zagallo 10. Jorginho
Cutch 1. Müller 2. Facchetti 3. Cafu 4. Santamaría 5. Cubillas 6. Bergomi 7. Monti 8. Nesta 9. F Albert 10. F Walter
TITO 1. Charlton 2. Baresi 3. Zanetti 4. Schnellinger 5. Tardelli 6. Paolo Rossi 7. Perfumo 8. Vavá 9. Gascoigne 10. Cerezo

@rpitroda
 
antohan said:
It's a bit unfair but somehow being part of a stronger team does him no favours. France actually highlighted how important Zidane was when they went to shit without him in 2002. Argentina pretty much collapsed relative to their strong start in 1994 once Maradona was banned. We all know how injured players can be made greater if the team fails to perform in their absence. Germany? Nope, they carried on, so in people's minds that somehow dilutes how good and influential a player he could have been.

But then, you were arguing against Puskas because he was injured and Hungary still did well... It's a similar scenario, with the exception that 1954 didn't have a Rossi and samba football grabbing the headlines away. Puskas did score in the final even when on one leg though, and he also had a second wrongly ruled out for offside.
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arguably wrongly! and I think we all agree that Zidane is seen as the greater player as Rummenigge, but Rummenigge really deserves to be in here despite his injury during the worldcup, that's what I'm saying. And we wouldn't have reached the final without him scoring on one leg against France, so there's that about winning without him ;).
 
Annahnomoss said:
Platini is less rated than in an all time environment. Zidane is pretty unchanged and Laudrup is much worse than he would be in a EC/all time draft. He wasn't included in the team of the tournament until 1998 which was around the time of his retirement. He retired after only playing 36 games in 97-98 for Vissel Kobe then Ajax.

Considering Laudrup was 34 years old, he of course didn't have the physical skills necessary to be top draft - of course still a good tournament as he was included in team of the tournament.
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Fergus' son said:
At the very very top, Platini is probably the best French player of all time IMO whilst Laudrup is one of my favourite number tens. Seriously, if you haven't already, check out some of his videos, stunning they are.

Zidane is probably the best of the lot in the context if the draft though, though arguably it should be his 2006 form which should be considered.
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I don't think you can separate Zidane 98 and 06 and you don't need to, after all he didn't change a lot as a player. I'd say the worldcup final against Brazil in 98 was clearly his best game, his tournament overall was clearly better in 06.
 
Cutch said:
Paceme has a serious collection of defensive midfielders going on
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It's even more impressive than Desert Eagle's. Imagine Rijkaard will operate in the middle of a defensive three by the looks of it.
 
Balu said:
I don't think you can separate Zidane 98 and 06 and you don't need to, after all he didn't change a lot as a player. I'd say the worldcup final against Brazil in 98 was clearly his best game, his tournament overall was clearly better in 06.
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Yeah very true, was just pointing out that though he didn't win it 06', it was his best World Cup IMO.
 
Gio said:
It's even more impressive than Desert Eagle's. Imagine Rijkaard will operate in the middle of a defensive three by the looks of it.
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Your team seems to be flying under the radar as far I can see, certainly one of the strongest IMO. Keane was a master stroke and that CB pair is phenomenal.
 
Annahnomoss said:
Platini is less rated than in an all time environment. Zidane is pretty unchanged and Laudrup is much worse than he would be in a EC/all time draft. He wasn't included in the team of the tournament until 1998 which was around the time of his retirement. He retired after only playing 36 games in 97-98 for Vissel Kobe then Ajax.

Considering Laudrup was 34 years old, he of course didn't have the physical skills necessary to be top draft - of course still a good tournament as he was included in team of the tournament.
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Agree with this
 
Fergus' son said:
At the very very top, Platini is probably the best French player of all time IMO whilst Laudrup is one of my favourite number tens. Seriously, if you haven't already, check out some of his videos, stunning they are.

Zidane is probably the best of the lot in the context if the draft though, though arguably it should be his 2006 form which should be considered.
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I have, he's as good as Zidane in all honesty. That passing ability in the final third. The amount of chances his team mates wasted. The things people say about him too, he has the Scholes level of respect in the game. Zidane has the big goals and games to his name and stylistically is one of my favourite players to watch. Technically perfect.

Platini is before my time, but his stats and what little I have seen indicates a quality player. In sports it's win or lose and fans generally only remember the ultimate winners. He doesn't have the world cup on his cv and '86 was his chance but Maradona took that. Platini says he was the best player in the world until then.
 
Balu said:
arguably wrongly! and I think we all agree that Zidane is seen as the greater player as Rummenigge, but Rummenigge really deserves to be in here despite his injury during the worldcup, that's what I'm saying. And we wouldn't have reached the final without him scoring on one leg against France, so there's that about winning without him ;).
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You know I thought he should be here. I'm just explaining/exploring why others may not think the same. I've always been baffled by how little he was rated and assumed it was down to World Cups, the number of turns before he even got a look in indicates that's about right.
 
JaffyJoe said:
I have, he's as good as Zidane in all honesty. That passing ability in the final third. The amount of chances his team mates wasted. The things people say about him too, he has the Scholes level of respect in the game. Zidane has the big goals and games to his name and stylistically is one of my favourite players to watch. Technically perfect.

Platini is before my time, but his stats and what little I have seen indicates a quality player. In sports it's win or lose and fans generally only remember the ultimate winners. He doesn't have the world cup on his cv and '86 was his chance but Maradona took that. Platini says he was the best player in the world until then.
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3 ballon dors in a row do little to disprove that.
 
Gio said:
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You can feck right off with that video. I thought about giving Denmark some rep in my underdog side but it all invariably boils down to having to watch that over and over again. feck that.
 
JaffyJoe said:
I have, he's as good as Zidane in all honesty. That passing ability in the final third. The amount of chances his team mates wasted. The things people say about him too, he has the Scholes level of respect in the game. Zidane has the big goals and games to his name and stylistically is one of my favourite players to watch. Technically perfect.

Platini is before my time, but his stats and what little I have seen indicates a quality player. In sports it's win or lose and fans generally only remember the ultimate winners. He doesn't have the world cup on his cv and '86 was his chance but Maradona took that. Platini says he was the best player in the world until then.
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Anto wrote a brilliant post about Platini in the 'tiers of greatness thread' he linked above. That's really worth a read about how deep the perception of a player can fall despite being so incredibly brilliant for such a long time.

edit:
that post:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/tiers-of-greatness.367894/page-8#post-13171432
 
Annahnomoss said:
Platini is less rated than in an all time environment. Zidane is pretty unchanged and Laudrup is much worse than he would be in a EC/all time draft. He wasn't included in the team of the tournament until 1998 which was around the time of his retirement. He retired after only playing 36 games in 97-98 for Vissel Kobe then Ajax.

Considering Laudrup was 34 years old, he of course didn't have the physical skills necessary to be top draft - of course still a good tournament as he was included in team of the tournament.
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What does that mean? Until? He played in 2 different World Cups. In '86 and '98. Denmark didn't qualify for '90 or '94.
What does the age have to do with it? He was the main main of a team that wouldn't be there at all if not for him or his brother. Like you said, he was in the team of the tournament, having played 5 games. 2 of those were against France and Brazil, the two best teams of the tournament.
 
Pol 1. Maradona 2. P. Maldini 3. Breitner 4. Zizinho 5. Boniek 6. Ocwirk 7. Zito 8. Ferdinand 9. Cohen
Cal 1. Pelé 2. Sándor Kocsis 3. Gérson 4. Blanc 5. Overath 6. Cristiano Ronaldo 7. Lev Yashin 8. Lúcio 9. Leandro
Aldo 1. Garrincha 2. Romário 3. Scirea 4. Gentile 5. Kempes 6. Ballack 7. Lizarazu 8. Burgnich 9. Hidegkuti
Theon 1. Beckenbauer 2. Zico 3. Baggio 4. Kohler 5. R. Carlos 6. Socrates 7. Andrade 8. Van Hanegem 9. Maier
Rpitroda 1. Zidane 2. Masopust 3. Varela 4. Desailly 5. Batistuta 6. Nasazzi 7. Figo 8. Zoff 9. Eyzaguirre 10. Hagi
Paceme 1. Platini 2. Rijkaard 3. Djalma Santos 4. Thuram 5. Tigana 6. Ademir 7. Cabrini 8. C. Maldini 9. Clodoaldo 10. Voronin
Jayvin 1. Ronaldo 2. Cannavaro 3. Rivaldo 4. Brehme 5. Vieira 6. Coluna 7. Schiaffino 8. Kahn 9. Julinho 10. Mauro Ramos
Desert 1.Moore 2. Meazza 3. Passarella 4. Busquets 5. Makélélé 6. Pirlo 7. Messi 8. Caniggia 9.Branco 10. Grosics
Annah 1. Didi 2. Iniesta 3. Ronaldinho 4. Stoichkov 5. Leonidas 6. Lahm 7. Vicente Lucas 8. Bellini 9. Stam 10. Zambrotta
Crappy/Pippa 1. Fontaine 2. Krol 3. Kopa 4. Vogts 5. Dunga 6. Ruggeri 7. Tarantini 8. Leonel Sanchez 9. Mauro Silva 10. Ricardo Zamora
Fergus 1. Matthäus 2. Falcao 3. Rivelino 4. Nilton Santos 5. Karlheinz Förster 6. Chumpitaz 7. Tostao 8. Manuel Amoros 9. Banks 10. Rummenigge
Balu/NM 1. Cruyff 2. Jairzinho 3. Carlos Alberto 4. Davids 5. Silvio Marzolini 6. Frank de Boer 7. Forlan 8. Gilmar 9. Ceulemans 10. Haan
Anto 1. Puskas 2. Neeskens 3. Bozsik 4. Czibor 5. Ghiggia 6. Junior 7. Mazurkiewicz 8. Gamarra 9. Seeler 10. Chilavert
Gio. 1. Eusebio 2. Figueroa 3. Laudrup 4. Xavi 5. Keane 6. Da Guia 7. Briegel 8. Lato 9. Zagallo 10. Jorginho
Cutch 1. Müller 2. Facchetti 3. Cafu 4. Santamaría 5. Cubillas 6. Bergomi 7. Monti 8. Nesta 9. F Albert 10. F Walter
TITO 1. Charlton 2. Baresi 3. Zanetti 4. Schnellinger 5. Tardelli 6. Paolo Rossi 7. Perfumo 8. Vavá 9. Gascoigne 10. Cerezo
 
JaffyJoe said:
I have, he's as good as Zidane in all honesty. That passing ability in the final third. The amount of chances his team mates wasted. The things people say about him too, he has the Scholes level of respect in the game. Zidane has the big goals and games to his name and stylistically is one of my favourite players to watch. Technically perfect.

Platini is before my time, but his stats and what little I have seen indicates a quality player. In sports it's win or lose and fans generally only remember the ultimate winners. He doesn't have the world cup on his cv and '86 was his chance but Maradona took that. Platini says he was the best player in the world until then.
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And he is not wrong. He was the best player in the world until Maradona waltzed around England, then Belgium and played Burruchaga through on goal.

Should be easy enough to get a compilation/highlights from Euro 84. Magnificent.
 
Balu said:
I don't think you can separate Zidane 98 and 06 and you don't need to, after all he didn't change a lot as a player. I'd say the worldcup final against Brazil in 98 was clearly his best game, his tournament overall was clearly better in 06.
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Pretty fair. He like the rest of France didn't get going until the knockout stages in '06 but then he produced 3/4 performances that were a cut above anything he did in '98 bar the final.
 
Gio said:
Pretty fair. He like the rest of France didn't get going until the knockout stages in '06 but then he produced 3/4 performances that were a cut above anything he did in '98 bar the final.
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Aye. He schooled likes of Ronaldinhio big time in that QF in 2006.
 
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