Frank Lampard's Sack Watch / Sacked
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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Says someone who can't even read a post properly.
Agreed. And Abraham is better
The excuses being made for Lampard in this thread are ridiculous.
These are the facts: He took over the reigning Europa League champions and a team which finished 3rd the season before. A squad which while losing two key players in Hazard and Luiz, had more than enough strength in depth. People talk about this being a young team, but it isn't. An average age a shade below 27.5 - Bayern's was actually slightly younger. While Utd's is markedly lower: 24.5. Btw, we finished 6th last season and have only just now started to replace the high-profile midfielders and attackers that we lost in the summer in Herrera, Lukaku and Sanchez.
The Utd fans who are defending Lampard are showing their agendas, IMO. The same energy that many of them have for Ole is seemingly non-existent in this case.
These are the facts: He took over the reigning Europa League champions and a team which finished 3rd the season before. A squad which while losing two key players in Hazard and Luiz, had more than enough strength in depth. People talk about this being a young team, but it isn't. An average age a shade below 27.5 - Bayern's was actually slightly younger. While Utd's is markedly lower: 24.5. Btw, we finished 6th last season and have only just now started to replace the high-profile midfielders and attackers that we lost in the summer in Herrera, Lukaku and Sanchez.
The Utd fans who are defending Lampard are showing their agendas, IMO. The same energy that many of them have for Ole is seemingly non-existent in this case.
Current of course.
Very true. Him and Ole have somewhat similar jobs to do and they have comparable results, with Ole actually spanking him 3 times this season, yet the narrative to describe them is diametrically opposed. One is the former golden English boy that has all the excuses in the World while the other is a nothing Norwegian manager.
Exactly. I don't mind people not thinking much of Ole, cos Lord knows he and the team haven't done enough this season to calm the doubters, but have the same energy with Fwank please. That's all I ask for.
Not difficult being an average striker in a current top 50 english or EPL striker.
I know he's not better than either .Chelsea are shocking at the back and that's with one of the strongest midfields in the PL in front of them .
Lampard is in his second season as a manager. Ole has a 12 years of experience. It's crazy people are comparing the two given the respective stages they are at in their careers. That's why Lampard gets an easier ride.
People should be comparing Lampard to the likes of Arteta or Gerrard.
Ole has been managing 1 year less than Pep. He's not a novice.
Is Chelsea a place for novice managers to learn their trade? Ole has been managing longer yes, that's why he has titles won at the clubs his managed.
And that's why expectations for them are (and should be) different.
As for Chelsea being a place for managers to learn their trade, I guess we will see. If Lampard finishes outside the top 4 and gets the sack we can say no.
Gary Linekar dubbed Chelsea 'Franks Fledglings'..
They aren't really that young are they? It's made out he's doing a SAF with the class of 92.
United's squad is much younger and full of academy products.
They aren't really that young are they? It's made out he's doing a SAF with the class of 92.
United's squad is much younger and full of academy products.
It the first time i read this reasoning so credit to you. Most of the time i hear and read supposedly objective excuses for Lampard: young team, lost his best player, big rebuild needed. Yet the same applies to Ole with an even younger team but are rarely mentioned.
For what it's worth, i think both should stay in the job because they have a huge amount of work to do and like we've seen with LVG or Mourinho, it's not something that experience can fix.
It's about the same age wise. Totals Mins for both tables is a difference of 450 mins with Chelsea ahead.
Chelsea
| Player | Age | Mins |
|---|---|---|
| Mason Mount | 21 | 2152 |
| Tammy Abraham | 22 | 1944 |
| Fikayo Tomori | 22 | 1229 |
| Andreas Christensen | 23 | 1168 |
| Christian Pulisic | 21 | 1076 |
| Reece James | 20 | 947 |
| Callum Hudson-Odoi | 19 | 770 |
United
Player | Age | Mins |
|---|---|---|
Aaron Wan-Bissaka | 22 | 2151 |
Daniel James | 22 | 2085 |
Marcus Rashford | 22 | 1882 |
Scott McTominay | 23 | 1466 |
Brandon Williams | 19 | 682 |
Mason Greenwood | 18 | 576 |
I didnt bother listing anyone with less than 500mins.
I'm sure the average age of squad at Chelsea is around 27/28?
Don't think he is doing that well. A bit lucky rivals have not picked up that many point in the league.
Poor tactically in big games.
His best quality is improving the younger players they got.
Poor tactically in big games.
His best quality is improving the younger players they got.
I think both will stay in their respective jobs.
In the past both clubs have signed big name managers but the big name managerial merry go round has lost most of its riders. There appears to be a shortage of experienced top quality managers out there. None that aren't damaged goods.
Both clubs appear to be try out a new managerial model. I hope they both stick to their guns and give the younger guys a proper run. Ole has already had a bit longer than Frank and for me he is just about holding his own. Even if Utd don't get CL and say they get EL they should stick with him and go for everything they can get next season. Back him in the transfer market and let him build a new team. Sack him in the closed season and it's back to square one again.
Same for Lampard. Yes, CL football next season will help attract new players but its not impossible to get bargains. The scouts have to do their job. Both sides have good young players coming through so why not let each manager carry on the rebuild.
Even if Chelsea finish outside the CL places they should back him and give him at least another season. Despite the bad run of form the team are still in with a shout of CL next season. Frank will have overachieved if he gets it.
It's possible they could both get CL next season.
In the past both clubs have signed big name managers but the big name managerial merry go round has lost most of its riders. There appears to be a shortage of experienced top quality managers out there. None that aren't damaged goods.
Both clubs appear to be try out a new managerial model. I hope they both stick to their guns and give the younger guys a proper run. Ole has already had a bit longer than Frank and for me he is just about holding his own. Even if Utd don't get CL and say they get EL they should stick with him and go for everything they can get next season. Back him in the transfer market and let him build a new team. Sack him in the closed season and it's back to square one again.
Same for Lampard. Yes, CL football next season will help attract new players but its not impossible to get bargains. The scouts have to do their job. Both sides have good young players coming through so why not let each manager carry on the rebuild.
Even if Chelsea finish outside the CL places they should back him and give him at least another season. Despite the bad run of form the team are still in with a shout of CL next season. Frank will have overachieved if he gets it.
It's possible they could both get CL next season.
Average Age of players with 500+ mins is 24.8
Ours is 25.2 but that does include Ashley Young, if you removed him it goes down to 24.6
What's average squad age in general?
It'll be lower for both I would think. The players in the squad who have not played much will be the likes of Billy Gilmour and Jamie Cummings for Chelsea and Gomes and Chonk for Man United.
Against Bayern last night he and his team and supporters were brought down to earth with a bang. They were outclassed in every department. The fact Ross Barkley gets a place says it all. I thought Lampard had something going earlier in the season but no it wasn't to be. Last night was a reality check and I seriously believe he's out of his depth. How he compares with Ole: I would say Ole has shown more managerial quality than he has. As another poster mentioned, he is good with the younger players (Mason Mount being an example), but it won't be enough and I think his days are now numbered.
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Ours would be lower but not by much. No real point adding in random youngsters that only get a few minutes.
Chelseas would go up a little bit as Pedro, Giroud and Caballero have less than 500mins.
They had like 35% possession last night and were clearly looking to hit Bayern on the counter. The same game plan we always have in big games. It's not their style that caused the problem.
If you put Andreas Christensen in, you should put Andreas Pereira in that category too, they were 23 at the start. So that makes difference of 1000 mins with United ahead
Williams, Scott Mctominay, Rashford, Greenwood didn't have a loan, they broke through the first team. CHO is only Chelsea player who never had a loan and went through first team from youth setup.
Difference is, a few of your players have already been in the PL for a season or more, or played with Utd for a period of time. For guys like James, Abraham, Mount, Tomori, Pulisic, it's their first season at this level, coming up from the championship.
Players like AWB, McTominay played around 40 games in their career before this season, whereas most chelsea young players played more than 100-150 games in their careers.
Most peoples issue with Ole isnt the fact that he came from Molde but that he still doesnt have a defined style of play after more than a year. If you also add context to it which your post was severely lacking you will notice that they are sitting 4th after bringing in nobody. That is a great feat in itself and I doubt Abramovich is considering the sack given the lack of transfers.
Chelsea lost their best player who used to carry their attack and didn't replace that while last season we had the same players mourinho left us with. In my personal opinion I dont think Chelsea have a great squad. Our squad is much better than theirs man for man. 1.62 points per game isnt very good but not surprising. I thought they would linger around 10th back in august but they have overachieved.
I do think there is something to be said about fatigue last night. Bayern are one of the favourites for the CL, and we are facing them after a tough run in the PL. They played a bottom of the league side on Friday. We played Tottenham, a London derby, on Saturday at midday. The game against Spurs is always a physically and mentally exhausting game, so I have no doubts that some of the players, especially the younger guys, would have been a bit fatigued from having played that weekend. Not to mention 4 of our key players are missing from the team. I don't think Davies would have had as much success vs Pulisic or Hudson-Odoi tbh. James was pretty much on his own that side as Mount is not known for his pace. In the second leg I hope we have Kante, Loftus-Cheek and both those aforementioned wide attackers back so we can really gage where we are at vs Bayern.
It would be same if you pick and choose
Include the whole squad or at least if you chritensen then why not Martial? Then there are several other players at utd so you omit based on some 500 mins rule for no reason whatsoever.Chelsea’s problem from the outset was if they lost Abraham for any length of time or he had a dip. Not trusting Giroud as well was likely to create an issue.
He’ll now find himself in a similar position to Ole in that injuries have wreaked havoc with his style and options. He hasn’t had enough time to rebuild but he should imo.
Whether Roman sees it that way, I don’t know. It’s always been about instant success at Chelsea. If it’s about a rebuild then theclub. should make a statement as such.
He’ll now find himself in a similar position to Ole in that injuries have wreaked havoc with his style and options. He hasn’t had enough time to rebuild but he should imo.
Whether Roman sees it that way, I don’t know. It’s always been about instant success at Chelsea. If it’s about a rebuild then theclub. should make a statement as such.
Re edited, my bad.
But they still trying to pass from the back, playing fancy short passes, can't keep up with Bayern, get constantly rekt.
That's fine, but my point wasn't about criticizing Lampard or calling for his head at all. It's just that seeing the guy being praised generously by the same people who's bashing Ole on a daily basis makes me laugh. I think it's fair to rate one more than the other as this is all subjective in the end, but the picture being painted on here with Frankie being the clever student and Ole nothing more than a clueless clown doesn't sustain itself anymore.
Last season when Ole made no signings he got third more points in the league (2 per game) with a decent run in tournaments, and that wasn't enough for this place. But now poor form over 15 games is not relevant, 1.62 points per game is fine, poor displays against big teams don't matter, nor how they're playing worse and worse as the season goes by.
This is why I'd like to know the rules or the standards on here to rate managers, cause I'm seeing some contradictions and strange things. Frank is doing it nice because he's 4th, but getting third more points was not enough last season. Recent form and drop in performances was relevant back then, now it's not. Signing the Molde manager after 10 years in the game was a comical choice, but signing Lampard after a season with Derby doesn't represent a problem because he's so clever, and so on.
I think many people had some fun bashing Ole and using Lampard as the example to learn from, but honestly I think it's time to move on from there. The joke is not funny anymore.
Ole, fat Frank, and Jose are all for the chop if they don't qualify for the champions league
Lampard isnt getting sacked. He'll be given a shed load of money to spend in the summer and be backed, and yes he will, and then be properly judged by our board. On that you can quote me
This is the way I see it going as well. Don’t think there’s some manager out there they would really want. Maybe Simeone?
Arteta gets treated like he\s a senior manager. Ole is constantly being view as not worthy of managing a big club because 'look who he's managed'. Well, who exactly has Arteta managed before landing the Arsenal job?
Arteta is the Arsenal manager. Ole is the Manchester United manager. Different things.
Maybe I'm missing something. Is Willian coming off an injury? If not, why was he not starting in either match?
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