Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended

Raees said:
Agree with this too - some people are just criticising for criticising sake.

The time travelling stuff for instance - like the show needs to cut down on that in order to advance the plot, nothing wrong with that.

Jamie leaving Brienne because he’s damaged and has unfinished business makes sense compared to him being a fully redeemed new person ready to start a new life. He’s a fecked up guy who is likely to keep making fecked up decisions. He’s not going to be perfect. That is consistent.

Likewise Arya ditching Gendry.

Even saw Varys being called an idiot on the net for constantly changing sides etc but I thought last episode was a return to form for instance as he was back to scheming for the ‘realm’ and that aspect to his purpose has been left a mystery for the viewer to fill in themselves.
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I agree with most of this, except that last bit. I'm not calling Varys himself the idiot, but the way he's been portrayed again. Much like Tyrion.


In any case I do agree with you guys about the nitpicking on the small stuff, like Arya not already having ninja'd Cersei (she's already on her way down ffs!), but the rest is fair game. It's equally daft to just claim people are doing it because it's "vogue" or whatever nonsense, because lots of us have very valid points that haven't exactly had good answers.

For me, my complaints have been mostly about how easy it would have been for them to slightly change moments to make sense. The Dothraki charge for example, it looked great and built tension, but would have needed just one line from Jon to have made it make sense. The fact they didn't, and now claim Dany just forgets about major forces against her, does kind of suggest lazy writing purely for tv moments does it not?

It's fair to criticise what they've done and how the show has changed. But I agree it's not really fair to criticise what hasn't happened yet that still could :lol:
 
Really enjoyed episode four as it had a strong dose of narrative intrigue as opposed to what we’ve seen so far this season which is mainly reunions, fan service and fighting.

I thought the final scene was a bit dumb but actually wonder if Cersei is trying to goad Dany into doing something stupid, just destroying her isn’t enough to make the people of Kings Landing trust Cersei, she needs to show Dany is wicked and the one to be feared.
 
sugar_kane said:
Really enjoyed episode four as it had a strong dose of narrative intrigue as opposed to what we’ve seen so far this season which is mainly reunions, fan service and fighting.

I thought the final scene was a bit dumb but actually wonder if Cersei is trying to goad Dany into doing something stupid, just destroying her isn’t enough to make the people of Kings Landing trust Cersei, she needs to show Dany is wicked and the one to be feared.
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Yeah that's pretty much the right explanation imo.

She still wouldn't do that, no one would with the Dragon sitting right there, but at least there's some reason behind it I guess.
 
Raees said:
Ozymandias was the second to last episode? And the last season has several iconic episodes and moments... so I disagree about the end of the show being packed with filler.

Reason why people are hating on Thrones so much is that the standard this show set and the level of expectation was at the same level of BB and the Wire and when you take into account the size of the fan base which is much more global in scope - lot of people are vested in it and not just the book nerds.

For them to take their eye off the ball coming into the final stretch and cut corners is quite frankly criminal. Personally I think the season has had it’s good moments but I can also see why so many are up in arms and are justified in doing so.

I don’t agree with the it’s just ‘tits and dragons’ - GOT is an era defining show, it has been up there with the very finest entertainment ever produced on screen so one would have hoped that with all the so called ‘exciting’ stuff to come and the various possibilities of conclusion it would have lived up to the hype and a lot of love and attention be paid to the storyline aspect to it.

GRRM has to take the large part of the blame, but D and D owed it to themselves to do a much better job as they’re hurting their own legacy at the moment.
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I'm not saying this show is beyond criticism; I've said there's things they can absolutely do better, but I think the level of critique has gone far beyond what is warranted. Seeing your post below to Sully I can see we largely agree. I just think D&D had an impossible task, and irrespective of what they did, they were going to be hammered for it, even if they have made plenty of errors.
 
ivaldo said:
I'm not saying this show is beyond criticism; I've said there's things they can absolutely do better, but I think the level of critique has gone far beyond what is warranted. Seeing your post below to Sully I can see we largely agree. I just think D&D had an impossible task, and irrespective of what they did, they were going to be hammered for it, even if they have made plenty of errors.
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True.

But then they are hardly helping themselves when they come out and sat Dany kinda forgot about the massive fleet of ships and giant anti-dragon weapons just for a cool scene ;)
 
sugar_kane said:
Really enjoyed episode four as it had a strong dose of narrative intrigue as opposed to what we’ve seen so far this season which is mainly reunions, fan service and fighting.

I thought the final scene was a bit dumb but actually wonder if Cersei is trying to goad Dany into doing something stupid, just destroying her isn’t enough to make the people of Kings Landing trust Cersei, she needs to show Dany is wicked and the one to be feared.
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My take is Cersei needs Dany alive for the time being. She wants to be attacked. She might have the throne at present but she's far from stable. Everyone hates her. She's invited the lowborn into the keep, knowing Dany will have to go through them to get to her. Any attack on them weakens Danys position and strengthens her own grasp on the throne. Goading her with Missandei is all part of it.
 
Massive Spanner said:
kill him, hopefully.
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Redlambs said:
Considering he's not actually done anything useful up until this point, nothing at all that has actually shaped the story, then no.

Probably some end scene where his eyes turn blue or something. Roll credits.
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Probably. Imagine dragging that cnut around for Christ knows how many seasons just so he could go joyriding a crow. Poor Hodor. :(
 
CassiusClaymore said:
Does anyone think they'll do anyone useful with Bran before the show ends?
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Only click the spoiler if you want to know the leaks
He becomes the King if the leaks are real (and so far the leaks matched episode 4)
 
Redlambs said:
True.

But then they are hardly helping themselves when they come out and sat Dany kinda forgot about the massive fleet of ships and giant anti-dragon weapons just for a cool scene ;)
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Ha.

I dont think he meant it as literally as that. Dany is grieving the loss of a child and is already losing her mind. She's not thinking about it logically and has already gone against council in rushing south.
 
Redlambs said:
Probably some end scene where his eyes turn blue or something. Roll credits.
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Given the length of time thats passed since Bran was touched, do we really think thats viable? Babies were instantly turned, yet it takes Bran ages to turn with no visible signs? The turning would have worked if they showed him have a gradual mental decline and we all assumed it was because he was becoming the 3 eyed raven when in fact it was because he was turning into a white walker (would have explained him being silent in the wheel chair). But surely the old 3 eyed raven would have known what it meant anyway and warned him? If Bran turns then we also have to question the motives of the original 3 eyed raven, it opens up a huge can of worms.

Likewise if Arya turns then we have to question why Bran didn't turn. There's so many plot holes with that storyline.
 
Redlambs said:
But he could have said that.

He can't even write his own dialogue properly ;)
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:lol:
He could have done, but these things are always full of shit and no one really wants to do them.
 
The outrage over this last episode online is crazy. GoT fans are worse than the Star Wars ultra super fans. Especially the Starbucks cup. Who gives a feck.
 
KirkDuyt said:
The outrage over this last episode online is crazy. GoT fans are worse than the Star Wars ultra super fans. Especially the Starbucks cup. Who gives a feck.
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For me the main thing that annoyed me was not seeing Jon tell his news to his 'sisters'. That stuff is far too big to do off screen.
 
Coxy said:
Only click the spoiler if you want to know the leaks
He becomes the King if the leaks are real (and so far the leaks matched episode 4)
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Hmmmm, interesting/not interesting.
That's got the whiff of LVG being appointed United manager about it. In theory a solid choice but very uninspiring.
 
RedSky said:
Given the length of time thats passed since Bran was touched, do we really think thats viable? Babies were instantly turned, yet it takes Bran ages to turn with no visible signs? The turning would have worked if they showed him have a gradual mental decline and we all assumed it was because he was becoming the 3 eyed raven when in fact it was because he was turning into a white walker (would have explained him being silent in the wheel chair). But surely the old 3 eyed raven would have known what it meant anyway and warned him? If Bran turns then we also have to question the motives of the original 3 eyed raven, it opens up a huge can of worms.

Likewise if Arya turns then we have to question why Bran didn't turn. There's so many plot holes with that storyline.
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I wasn't being serious, but I think viable isn't a word these guys know :lol:

For me some parts are obvious as to what happens next, I've put them in spoilers over the last few pages, but as for Bran it could be literally anything. His whole character has no purpose at all, hasn't ever actually done anything, and really should have died with the NK.

But in the show, the NK and all that should be over for good. Mel seemed to think so, and I'd assume that means the brand on Bran too. But with these guys, who knows.
 
Redlambs said:
I wasn't being serious, but I think viable isn't a word these guys know :lol:

For me some parts are obvious as to what happens next, I've put them in spoilers over the last few pages, but as for Bran it could be literally anything. His whole character has no purpose at all, hasn't ever actually done anything, and really should have died with the NK.

But in the show, the NK and all that should be over for good. Mel seemed to think so, and I'd assume that means the brand on Bran too. But with these guys, who knows.
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Honestly, his eyes turning blue at the end is exactly the type of dumb as feck shit that D&D would pull. Aryas turning blue also another viable option frankly.
 
Coxy said:
For me the main thing that annoyed me was not seeing Jon tell his news to his 'sisters'. That stuff is far too big to do off screen.
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That's a very valid complaint. No idea why they chose to do that. I suppose Bran needed at least some sort of point in existing.

It's the questioning of the military tactics that do my head in.
 
Redlambs said:
Varys is a flip-flopping tool.

One minute he's poisoning Dany, next he's helping her. Now right in the verge of getting what he wants, he's thinking of stabbing her in the back and getting Jon in.
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He promised her that he would tell her if he had a problem with her methods before stabbing her in the back. He kept that promise.
He good to go on backing someone else now.
 
ivaldo said:
Ah, so unless it isn’t cafs choice of the best ever tv show, it needs to be mercilessly shat on from a great height.
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Thing is, GoT was brilliant uptil a point. If it was crap throughout nobody would have bothered.
 
Fully Fledged said:
He promised her that he would tell her if he had a problem with her methods before stabbing her in the back. He kept that promise.
He good to go on backing someone else now.
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I don't get the Varys criticism. He has been clear since the first season his loyalty is to the realm.

There's a lot to criticise but that isn't it.
 
RedSky said:
Given the length of time thats passed since Bran was touched, do we really think thats viable? Babies were instantly turned, yet it takes Bran ages to turn with no visible signs? The turning would have worked if they showed him have a gradual mental decline and we all assumed it was because he was becoming the 3 eyed raven when in fact it was because he was turning into a white walker (would have explained him being silent in the wheel chair). But surely the old 3 eyed raven would have known what it meant anyway and warned him? If Bran turns then we also have to question the motives of the original 3 eyed raven, it opens up a huge can of worms.

Likewise if Arya turns then we have to question why Bran didn't turn. There's so many plot holes with that storyline.
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Bran was touched while he was in the weirwood network. Do we even know if the NK can turn without physically touching them. Thought the holding of Bran's hand while Bran was in weirwood network only allowed the NK to bypass the security protocols of cave put up by the 3ER
 
KirkDuyt said:
That's a very valid complaint. No idea why they chose to do that. I suppose Bran needed at least some sort of point in existing.

It's the questioning of the military tactics that do my head in.
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I think that's valid though, it's the same issue with Walking Dead. People hate it when characters do dumb shit over and over. It's entertaining from a soap operas perspective, but GoT used to be better than that. The whole enjoyment was watching clever people trying to outfox one another rather than dumb people tripping up each episode.

Tyrion has been doing dumb shit for Seasons now. Remember this quote though?

"My mind is my weapon. My brother has his word, King Robert has his warhammer and I have my mind.... and a mind needs books as a sword needs a whetstone if it is to keep it's edge."

Seems a long time ago now.
 
harshad said:
Bran was touched while he was in the weirwood network. Do we even know if the NK can turn without physically touching them. Thought the holding of Bran's hand while Bran was in weirwood network only allowed the NK to bypass the security protocols of cave put up by the 3ER
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Decent point, he still has the mark on his body though no? He showed it in Episode 2, so it physically did scar him at least. I guess he thought he was invisible because he was looking back at a memory (like when he saw young Ned and young Ned turned around). So my guess is the Night King could see him. It was all pretty... vague.
 
harshad said:
Bran was touched while he was in the weirwood network. Do we even know if the NK can turn without physically touching them. Thought the holding of Bran's hand while Bran was in weirwood network only allowed the NK to bypass the security protocols of cave put up by the 3ER
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"Weirwood Network", "Security Protocols" :lol:
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Thing is, GoT was brilliant uptil a point. If it was crap throughout nobody would have bothered.
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It's still a very good show though. If you hadn't watched the show and you read this forum you'd think D&D rewrote the entire cast and decided to do the last 4 episodes with sock puppets.
 
I actually enjoyed most of that episode bar the obvious ridiculousness. Probably my favorite of the season so far. I'm not 100% sure that Jaime is on his way back to KL to embrace Cersei again, think he might just want to be the one to finish her.
 
Kapardin said:
Varys will stab Dany when she turns on Jon. Or something more sophisticated, but clear as day he will be involved in her death. I think Cersei is a goner next episode along with Jaime, the Cleganes, Grey Worm, Euron and others. The final episode is likely to focus on Jon and Dany, possibly on opposite sides.
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I think Tyrion will kill Dany.

Last episode will be Jon v whatever’s left

Season will finish with Jon sitting on Iron Throne looking pissed off
 
golden_blunder said:
I think Tyrion will kill Dany.

Last episode will be Jon v whatever’s left

Season will finish with Jon sitting on Iron Throne looking pissed off
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I doubt Kit Harrington has the acting range to double the amount of facial expressions he's had so far.
 
2cents said:
I actually enjoyed most of that episode bar the obvious ridiculousness. Probably my favorite of the season so far. I'm not 100% sure that Jaime is on his way back to KL to embrace Cersei again, think he might just want to be the one to finish her.
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I don't think he'll kill her. She threatened to kill him but didn't go through with it, why would Jamie come back and kill her? It's more likely he'll come back to protect her from being killed. Lets not forget she has his child, he still loves her despite her being a monster. He's probably going down there to attempt to make her stand down and be put on trial.
 
RedSky said:
I don't think he'll kill her. She threatened to kill him but didn't go through with it, why would Jamie come back and kill her? It's more likely he'll come back to protect her from being killed. Lets not forget she has his child, he still loves her despite her being a monster. He's probably going down there to attempt to make her stand down and be put on trial.
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I've always said he'll kill her and then himself. In the last moment he'll redeem himself again by stopping her but take his own life because of the pain it causes him.
 
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