Gareth Bale is...The most expensive player ever?!

Jens' Face said:
i'm not making any claims to superior insight or judgment, but I've always that that of all the Utd players, Valencia was the most overrated by folks on this forum

(and, as always, calling him overrated doesn't mean I don't think he's good)
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Pretty much my estimation of Valencia. I think he is a good squad player to have, but I can't see him being a long-term first team fixture for Man Utd.

kouroux said:
I'd love to smoke what salvation does some day cause this is too much :lol:
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When browsing the caf, these days it's largely a spree of abuses that I smoke. Dunno if that's your thing.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Lennon is as brainless as he has always been. The world cup was ample proof. As usual he was usually excelling for Spurs in the league but when faced with clued up defenders at International level he was found wanting.
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To be fair what great defences has Valencia torn apart?

Lennon has consistently made Evra look a bit silly. And Valencia has, i think, once gotten the better of Cole, in this years community shield.

As for my personal opinion, none have really performed against top defenders yet. Both have time.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Edited. To point out the bleeding obvious.
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Sure. Whatever you'd like to think.

Once against Chelsea. Maybe a couple others I'm forgetting. Certainly no different from Lennons record against the bigger sides.

Both can and will improve in this aspect.
 
What Gareth Bale certainly is and will do, is a very good, young player who has shown that he has what it takes to become a very good footballer but some people are pulling the trigger a bit too soon on this. It's always weird how a couple of good matches from a player and there is premature ejaculation all round.

What is certain: he has big ears and he will not win anything with his national side. All else, time will tell.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Wales have an outstanding crop of young players atm, so you never know...
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Fair play, so possibly an U-21 title or a charity tournament are not out of the question. I do think he is very good and he will become even better if he stays healthy and starts on a regular basis. If Spurs do well in Europe and the Premier League, it will do good things for his experience and confidence.

Btw, how did the thread about Bale turn into a Valencia discussion?
 
Salvation said:
Torres aside, I don't think there has been a player who "tore our own defence a new one".

Especially that first choice back four of Brown, Rio, Vidic and Evra.
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To be fair, there have been others. But Valencia has never come close. If he did, most ardent United fans would at least notice. I never really noticed him on the pitch much when he played us. That doesn't mean he never played well (because I tend to notice opposition players performances less when against us) but had he 'torn us a new one' I would definitely have noticed it.

Ronaldo did it for Real. Iniesta did it for Barca. Torres did it, but more to do with our own defense, but counts I guess. Joe Cole I thought was amazing against us when Chelsea won 4-1 once. Many others I'm sure.
 
Iniesta is another.

Ronaldo is an era back, and that wasn't the most gelled United back four. Excellent display nontheless. Same for Joe Cole (although the little I remember from that performance, it was an anthology of moments where he looked threatening than seeming so every time when on the ball).
 
Salvation said:
Iniesta is another.

Ronaldo is an era back, and that wasn't the most gelled United back four. Excellent display nontheless. Same for Joe Cole (although the little I remember from that performance, it was an anthology of moments where he looked threatening than seeming so every time when on the ball).
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There have been plenty. Players play well against United too you know. And players tearing us a new one has nothing to do with how gelled our back four is. How impressive the act of tearing (ewww) does depend on it.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
To be fair, there have been others. But Valencia has never come close. If he did, most ardent United fans would at least notice. I never really noticed him on the pitch much when he played us. That doesn't mean he never played well (because I tend to notice opposition players performances less when against us) but had he 'torn us a new one' I would definitely have noticed it.

Ronaldo did it for Real. Iniesta did it for Barca. Torres did it, but more to do with our own defense, but counts I guess. Joe Cole I thought was amazing against us when Chelsea won 4-1 once. Many others I'm sure.
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That means you're either not an ardent fan, not very observant, or have a shocking memory.

 
There must be an unwritten rule that makes all compilationsmakers use terrible music and annoying effects. Not to mention poor video quality.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That means you're either not an ardent fan, not very observant, or have a shocking memory.

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And that you're a prick!

Nothing new then!

:lol:

I can't believe you just added that clip. He's done pretty much nothing in that clip. Almost every other week (sometimes every week) a player plays that well against us. A few good bursts of acceleration, bits and pieces of skill here and there. 'Tore our defense a new one' indeed.

Anyway, I really don't know why you bother replying to me. I would rather enjoy conversing with you if you weren't so damn unpleasant. Silly petty little accusations and insinuations here and there just because someone disagreed with you. It just takes the fun out of it.
 
Which one is Valencia in the vid? I see a lot of black players(Not intentionally being racist but I have no choice here)
 
Salvation said:
Not really. A Silvestre/Blanc center would be easier to pick out than a Rio/Vidic.
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Exactly. But it doesn't mean those who made the former looks silly did not make a United defence look silly. It just seems the accomplishment was smaller.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That means you're either not an ardent fan, not very observant, or have a shocking memory.

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That was quite impressive but not hole-ripping by any stretch.

To put some perspective into that performance, here was United's starting defence that game:
Man Utd: Van der Sar, Rafael Da Silva, Vidic, Evans, O'Shea, Ronaldo, Scholes (Fletcher 85), Carrick, Nani (Anderson 59), Berbatov, Rooney (Tevez 8).
Subs Not Used: Kuszczak, Neville, Park, Welbeck.
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And here's the Caf's reactions/views on Valencia days after that fixture. You'd notice, no one lauding him to heights that generally ensue a hole-ripping performance:
https://www.redcafe.net/f9/antonio-valencia-232419/index2.html

Hole-ripping.
 
Salvation said:
When browsing the caf, these days it's largely a spree of abuses that I smoke. Dunno if that's your thing.
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I'm not gonna criticize you for your view, it's yours.I just think they're funny, I also don't understand how you don't appreciate a player the same I do (for instance).
I'm just genuinely wondering how you can't rate Valencia higher with what he's done in his first season.It's hard to please caftards these days.
 
Salvation said:
And here's the Caf's reactions/views on Valencia days after that fixture. You'd notice, no one lauding him to heights that generally ensue a hole-ripping performance:
https://www.redcafe.net/f9/antonio-valencia-232419/index2.html

Hole-ripping.
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Yeah, no one at all.

I’m a long time admirer of Valencia, nothing to do with his impressive stint at Wigan thus far. His performances at the world cup (where he got in the best 11 team if I remember rightly) were where I first noticed him.

He’s a better athlete than Nani, more powerful, quicker and more direct. He doesn’t have Nani’s close control or dribbling skills, both have powerful strikes on them.

There’s not much between them at all but I think Valencia’s redeeming quality is his on the field persona and attitude. Personally Id have him over Nani. Then again if and when Nani takes his game to the next level I sure he'll be the better player overall. At the moment its looking a big if though
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You're weird.
 
Salvation said:
Read the whole sentence, not just the convenient parts.
"... no one lauding him to heights that generally ensue a hole-ripping performance..."
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I focussed on the key point in that sentence because, as usual, you were being unnecessarily verbose.

This "tearing defences up" thing is all semantics anyway. Someone tried to imply that Valencia - unlike Lennon or Bale - has never really impressed against top class defences. This is, of course, bollox.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I focussed on the key point in that sentence because, as usual, you were being unnecessarily verbose.

This "tearing defences up" thing is all semantics anyway. Someone tried to imply that Valencia - unlike Lennon or Bale - has never really impressed against top class defences. This is, of course, bollox.
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That's a weak argument for not reading an entire sentence, focusing on bits to prove a point. If it's the case, let me concede again, your knowledge of football is superior, and I'm not looking for any one-upmanship.

That Youtube video you posted was quite impressive, but you of all should know it doesn't prove anything. I could make Jonas Gutierrez's performance at Old Trafford look better in a compilation of similar vein.
 
Valencia, Bale, Nani, Lennon - all about the same level at the moment.

Nani has potential to be be the best of them, I think.
 
Salvation said:
That's a weak argument for not reading an entire sentence, focusing on bits to prove a point. If it's the case, let me concede again, your knowledge of superior, and I'm not looking for any one-upmanship.

That Youtube video you posted was quite impressive, but you of all should know it doesn't prove anything. I could make Jonas Gutierrez's performance at Old Trafford look better in a compilation of similar vein.
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Yes it does.

It's evidence of Valencia causing a top class defence (i.e. ours) all sorts of problems. The same defence that broke records that very season (yes, that's with John O'Shea on the pitch) This is in response to a post implying Valencia has never performed against top class defences (do I really need to frigging point this out again?)

I'm only resorting to youtube because I'm dealing with half-wits and weirdos that seem to have the memory of an amoeba and wouldn't know a quality footballer if he kicked them up the hole.

On that note, I'm out. You're far too much hard work. The combination of you having very little clue at all about football (as you admit yourself) with being obstinant and obtuse makes for a very irritating discussion.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Lennon is as brainless as he has always been. The world cup was ample proof. As usual he was usually excelling for Spurs in the league but when faced with clued up defenders at International level he was found wanting.
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What nonsense. Lennon didn't get to play much in the WC - and when he did it the England set-up didn't play to his strengths: Glen Johnson hasn't learnt how to form a good right-flank partnership with Lennon, and there was no Huddlestone to stroke out majestic passes to the flanks like he does at Spurs.

Besides, if you're citing the WC as "proof" then you may as well cite Rooney's terrible performances as evidence of his being a lousy player.
 
Bale has age on his side, yes, but Nani has more in his locker than all the others - that's why I said that. It's a judgement call though.

I think Valencia has some significant improvement in him as well - I think he can get more goals for sure.

Lennon is already good but not sure how much better he'll get.
 
kouroux said:
You're using the 2 players with the biggest difference in age, if it's like this why not mention the difference in age between Lennon and Nani ?
There are lots of ways to look at this
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Yeah, between Nani, Lennon and Valencia there isn't much. Just citing Bale as an exception.

Lennon's still the youngest among the three.
 
Salvation said:
Yeah, between Nani, Lennon and Valencia there isn't much. Just citing Bale as an exception.

Lennon's still the youngest among the three.
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Why are you so pre-occupied with age?

Valencia, growing up in Ecuador, had a completely different background to Lennon and Bale who were developed at European clubs from a young age.

There's no point in comparing these players and expecting them to develop at the same age...
 
I don't see what's so controversial about what he's saying. It's all debatable stuff, nothing crazy.
 
Only seems really crazy because Bentley hasn't been playing all that much. People's perceptions of players change like the wind. A few years ago, Bentley was regarded as about the same - maybe above Valencia, and neither have actually done so much to change that. I'd say Bentley as a footballer is easily on Park's level. I'd take Valencia - and actually Park - above him, but a lot of that is because of other attributes. Valencia has a lot in his locker and can improve, and Park is a fantastic player to have in the squad especially due to his energy.

Some on here talk about Valencia like he's already made it - already at, say, Kanchelskis's level. He ain't there yet! And he never 'tore us a new one'. He had one impressive game against us - that's it.
 
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