I understand there are bi people who find both sexes attractive but I find it hard to believe anyone could have a full on sexual experience with a man if he wasn't gay.
You just wouldn't get aroused surely.
Gay footballers | Czech Republic international Jakub Jankto comes out as gay
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I understand there are bi people who find both sexes attractive but I find it hard to believe anyone could have a full on sexual experience with a man if he wasn't gay.
You just wouldn't get aroused surely.
Just a quick one for @Strachans Cigar and the others who think homosexuality is not "natural".
All apes and primates species have homosexuality. There have also been multiple cases of other mammals and birds displaying homosexuality. So in effect, in all the "intelligent" animals we have cases of homosexuality. I think we could say that indicates it's natural.
Why? Well, you're right that if ALL the animals in a species were homosexual then they'd die out in one generation, but homosexual subsections in primates tend to occur between 4 and 9% of the population.
The other thing that an intelligent species usually requires to survive more than a couple of generations is COMMUNITY. And guess what, making love is better and forging community ties than fighting, just look at the bonobo chimps.
Now most mammals will have multiple offspring, so if you already have males that will propagate the haplogroup and females that will propagate the female line, then it makes sense to have other offspring that will strengthen community bonds.
So in fact, not only is homosexuality natural, it's a natural sign of an intelligent species. Therefore homophobia is unnatural and unintelligent and should be locked in the closet til it withers away
All apes and primates species have homosexuality. There have also been multiple cases of other mammals and birds displaying homosexuality. So in effect, in all the "intelligent" animals we have cases of homosexuality. I think we could say that indicates it's natural.
Why? Well, you're right that if ALL the animals in a species were homosexual then they'd die out in one generation, but homosexual subsections in primates tend to occur between 4 and 9% of the population.
The other thing that an intelligent species usually requires to survive more than a couple of generations is COMMUNITY. And guess what, making love is better and forging community ties than fighting, just look at the bonobo chimps.
Now most mammals will have multiple offspring, so if you already have males that will propagate the haplogroup and females that will propagate the female line, then it makes sense to have other offspring that will strengthen community bonds.
So in fact, not only is homosexuality natural, it's a natural sign of an intelligent species. Therefore homophobia is unnatural and unintelligent and should be locked in the closet til it withers away
I do wonder about a few things. Obviously there has to be a different take on the topic if you ask a lower league player and if you ask a rich and protected superstar. As for the latter, a big part of their life is on display, but they largely control their content and seem to let out mostly what they want, unless it is a scandal or media gets hold of a negative story. I would assume a newspaper company these days would lose all respect if they "exposed" a player for being gay, and portrayed it negatively as some sort of hot topic discovery. I'm sure the media possess info about certain players and could do it if they wanted to, so at least it is good that they don't.
I do wonder though, on the bigger scale if they have adjusted and found some sort of accepted way of dealing with it for these superstars now, where maybe just about everyone gay follows this layout, and if they are content with it? Do their teammates, friends and coaches know it while it is respectfully kept secret from the public? I mean, it might be detrimental to the movement on a larger scale but I guess as long as they can live as themselves, accepted but shielded, then I can see why nobody seems eager to break out of that if thats the case. These players are mostly shielded anyways, so I guess it doesn't have to make such a big difference for them if they come out publicly or not, but for the average gay guy playing football it would be great I think if some of them would.
I do wonder though, on the bigger scale if they have adjusted and found some sort of accepted way of dealing with it for these superstars now, where maybe just about everyone gay follows this layout, and if they are content with it? Do their teammates, friends and coaches know it while it is respectfully kept secret from the public? I mean, it might be detrimental to the movement on a larger scale but I guess as long as they can live as themselves, accepted but shielded, then I can see why nobody seems eager to break out of that if thats the case. These players are mostly shielded anyways, so I guess it doesn't have to make such a big difference for them if they come out publicly or not, but for the average gay guy playing football it would be great I think if some of them would.
How differently I saw that list, I can only imagine the bravery and personal strenght it takes to take that first step, what's worse like you mentioned, is you have to do it over and over, and over. My objection to that list was that why take away focus from their achievments as athletes because of their sexuality, I've never been able to grasp homophobia, it always ends up with the question, why? Thank you for your post.
Depends on the country you live in.
Obviously telling friends and family is not the same thing as making a public announcement if you are somebody in the limelight.
With regard to Tom Daley, the options are not limited to either a) publicly announcing he is gay or b) living his life in secret.
The only people relevant to anybody living their truth are themselves and their loved ones. People that are going to be accepting of it are going to be so with or without a PR release and people who aren't accepting of gay people are not going to be swayed into acceptance because someone "declared" themselves.
I literally couldn't care less if somebody is gay or not. I have been in situations with both men and women where I have felt both awkward and bad for them because they have felt the need to work it into conversations that they are gay. To me they might as well be telling me they like blondes over brunettes or they only eat salt and vinegar crisps. All are just personal preferences to me.
I think it's a horrible stigma that needs to be eradicated that gay people need to declare themselves before being made to or within themselves feeling comfortable to live their truth as you phrase it. Gay people are not lepers in public areas, no bell should need ringing as a forewarning to people.
No worries, I realise that since you were one of the posters involved in that discussion and you're on the ball regarding these things that it wasn't intentional. Just that and this thread coinciding made me think of it.
As has been described a million times. It's great for you if you don't care but all people who are gay have experienced situations where people do care that they are gay. So for them unless every person is like you they either have to make it obvious or hide it in fear of what could happen. Remember its not about you they are not doing it for you. its about the individual going through that experience and the fear and anxiety of society that they go through.
I’m no homophobe, hell I’ve even had a couple of dabbles myself & yes I’ve kept it quiet & was totally happy in doing so
‘Consenting Adults’ is my bottom line. If my son/daughter came to me staying they were gay, I wouldn’t have a problem with it.
However, being Gay is a sexual orientation, and *most* sex lives are kept relatively private are they not?
But just don’t say to me Gay is ‘normal’. Body parts say no. Simple as that. If it was ‘normal’, the species would be wiped out within 100 years without artificial intervention. And some people object to what isn’t ‘normal’, especially when it isn’t ‘normal’ through choice sorry to say.
Maybe in this case it’s a primal projection of the need to preserve the species first & foremost haha.
I do think the proactive LGBT agenda is getting a bit silly in general. Where I live, the PCC has sacked the chairman of Cheshire Police & Crime Panel because he had the temerity to question an officers impartiality because she was wearing a LGBT lanyard. Utter bollocks imo. Why stop there? Let’s have lanyards for every single oppressed minority out there eh?
https://www.cheshire-live.co.uk/new...cheshire-police-chairman-sacked-over-16538058
It’s funny how you opened your post by regaling us with your gay sexual experiences, yet went on to imply that gay people shouldn’t come out because sex lives should be kept private.
It's incredibly dumb and there's remarkably a lot of it. Every time there's thread about the lack of gay footballers there's always speculation if either of Mata and Smalling are gay. Mata because of his personality and Smalling because of his fecking voice. People fail to realise that gay people are just normal people.
I remember people used to think Freddie Ljungberg was gay because he dressed well, he did an interview in the Mail title "I like clothes but I'm not gay" or something. That was the level of discourse regarding homosexuality in British football back then, and I don't think we've moved on that far to be honest.
It's not just homophobia that has to be overcome but also ingrained attitudes about manliness; a harder battle, perhaps.
From what some of the guys have mentioned here about not being able to show their true selves must not only be hard, it must also affect their careers.
When you look at the "marketable" players, it seems that the actual football they produce is becoming less important in comparison to their online presence.
For example, I know Pogba is an extremely talented footballer, but he hasn't exactly pulled up trees over the last couple of seasons, but he's still valued as one of the most expensive men in football. Because he's marketable. And from what I can see, he's marketable because of his social media presence.
The reason I mention it is that if a gay footballer can't show his whole life on social media, he's less marketable, so wanted less, so is paid less and is transferred for less. If that is the case, it's a pretty shit situation. ,
When you look at the "marketable" players, it seems that the actual football they produce is becoming less important in comparison to their online presence.
For example, I know Pogba is an extremely talented footballer, but he hasn't exactly pulled up trees over the last couple of seasons, but he's still valued as one of the most expensive men in football. Because he's marketable. And from what I can see, he's marketable because of his social media presence.
The reason I mention it is that if a gay footballer can't show his whole life on social media, he's less marketable, so wanted less, so is paid less and is transferred for less. If that is the case, it's a pretty shit situation. ,
Jesus yeah the whole Mata and Herrera both being well spoken and mates must mean they're in a relationship thing was odd.
Yeah, wasn't as compelling evidence as O'Shea's name rhyming with gay, making offensive chants that bit easier to come up with.
Surely this counts as him coming out?
Some observations to some replies, don’t worry, I’m fecking off.
- Yeah, homosexuality has been observed in the animal kingdom, for reasons unknown. Matters not, ultimate aim and indeed raison d’etre is to procreate. In all species. That is not possible with Homosexuality, therefore Homosexuality is a departure from the norm and indeed the absolute necessity. Sorry I can’t say ‘it’s not normal’ apparently.
- If Bisexuality isn’t a viable option, how the feck has homosexuality lasted for so long then? The ‘gay gene’ if you want to argue along those lines (I’m not ‘totally’ convinced personally though) would surely have died out would it not as a result of point 1 ? Or was that all down to suppressed homosexuality in times past? Ok in that case, the issue of homophobia should all be over in the next 100 years then shouldn’t it? Because there will be no gays left.
- Yes, in answer to points directed at me personally, I opt to keep my own sex life private. Not saying others have to. It’s the general LGBT blitz and associated PC nonsense that pisses me off. Overkill imo and furthermore, I’ve given an example of it.
- Seems to me if you are anything other than an uber uber Liberal, this forum ain’t the place to be. Safety in numbers is frequently on show. Doesn’t mean the Liberal herd mentality is always 100% correct however. Indeed, all my points didn’t get full answers did they? Got a few petty ones (and some abuse) though. Oh, the irony.
- Hurry up and ban me from this godawful, self-righteous & congratulatory place. Thanks.
@Strachans Cigar Bye! again.
1. I’m not getting your point here? If someone is unable to have children due to some medical reason, are they in the same boat as a gay person, living an abnormal way of life?
2. I don’t think you understand genetics
3. You didn’t keep it private, you opened your post telling us about your homosexual experiences, unprompted. It’s been reiterated a thousand times in this thread why people out themselves.
4. What points have you made? And my God man whine about the ‘abuse’ you received more. Be thankful you’re straight (though a dabbler) and the abuse you receive is because of your moronic opinions and not your sexual orientation.
5. I feel for you being forced against your will to post in this place.
I think a lot of the curiosity comes at adolescence when hormones are raging and people 'fool around' so to speak. Also some people (both straight and gay) have the mildest attraction which they're curious about but decide it's not for them.
1. Not nearly the same is it. So stop playing Devils advocate. Could go on but won’t.
2. Only mentioned ‘gay gene’ whilst simultaneously expressing my doubts as a mod PM’d me before giving me penalty points with their view that basically people are born this way. Like I say, some people think it’s lifestyle preference, others genetics. I’m in the former camp, so it’s moot. Again, I’ll leave it there as there is no definitive proof either way is there?
3. That’s right I didn’t keep it private. Because I mentioned it on an anonymous Internet forum.
4. No one answered the ridiculousness of the Cheshire Police case being LGBT PC gone mad.
5. There we go again. Mr Uber Liberal with the insult.
You won't be missed, homophobe.
there seems to be a strong correlation between a declaration of not being a homophobe and getting really worked up about it all
One of the main benefits of freedom of speech is that it provides room for people to expose their ignorance/prejudices. This thread has been good for that purpose.
One of the most bigoted and depressing posts I've read on here in a while (that takes some doing).
I guess we all need a reminder from time to time that views like this are alive and well in 2019.
I hate this joke. It shifts the problem away from straight people.
Nothing to be gained? Perhaps being able to go out in public with their partner and be proud without people making a big thing out of it as if it wasn’t normal or something?
You can say you think it is not normal if you like but I wonder how would feel if you found out that your 25 year old son had been living a gay secret life for years and keeping it from you because he was too scared to talk to you in case you thought he wasn’t normal because you are such a prick?
Yeah, the language behind it is really interesting, SteveJ addressed earlier in this thread, it's always something like "Now I don't mind them gay sort but they're just shoving their gayness right up my...".
Oh look. Yet another insult. Are you a parent? If so, you will realise that parental love is unconditional then. Doesn’t matter if my son was gay, bi, tri or a City fan. Love conquers all. Still entitled to my opinions on what is normal or not.
As it happens, since you mention it, my son is Autistic. That means his brain isn’t normal. Or he isn’t ‘neurotypical’ if you like fluffy PC speak.
That a good enough answer for ya?
Autism is a complex brain disorder (and by the way I didn’t mention it you did).
Is this a good enough answer for me?
Well if are you seriously suggesting that being gay is a brain disorder then it is good enough for me to know that you really are an ignorant prick....not an insult a fact.
Parental love isn't unconditional for quite a lot of LGBT kids the world over. Nearly 40% of homeless youth in the US are LGBT youth due to familial rejection
Nope done nothing of the sort. So you’re the ignorant one as you’ve just jumped in now at the arse end of the thread. Maybe go back and read. I’m in the ‘behaviour’ camp. Doesn’t mean I’m right, doesn’t mean I’m wrong. Nobody knows.
And feck off with the insults. I know what Autism is, thanks. Reason it was mentioned was to underline the value of unconditional parental love no matter the circumstances. You brought parenthood into it. Thought that would have been obvious. Evidently not.
It's all about labels. People increasingly see gender as a spectrum, so people who once would've considered themselves bi sometimes now consider themselves pan. For most people there's a point where they wouldn't get aroused, but it's not necessarily as simple as male and female. If you fancy someone who appears outwardly to be a girl but has a penis, are you gay because you fancied them in the first place?
Wait, do you think being gay is a choice people make?
Yeah I do. I was unsure, hence the dabbling. Wasn’t for me. Maybe for others though.
Wait? Are you saying it’s genetic?
Proof please.
Yeah & that is a sad statistic. Then again, quite a few Christian fundamentalists there isn’t there?
I know someone whose brother is gay and in a relationship with a drug addict who's destroyed every friendship and family relationship they've ever had through theft and violence. What does my mate's dad have an issue with? The fact that he's male. The drug addiction and criminal behaviour aren't issues. Bizarre.
I wasn't saying anything, actually, but needless to say I don't see it as some kind of lifestyle choice like you do. I was just trying to see where you are coming from given you think it's a choice and unnatural - religious views perhaps?
Anyway, I was trying so hard not to wade into this debate as I abhor homophobia and some of the views expressed in this thread.