How's he now? Apologies if he's passed.
Gay footballers | Czech Republic international Jakub Jankto comes out as gay
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
How's he now? Apologies if he's passed.
My father? He's long gone.
Did you see any change in his stance over the years?
It's a traditional check-call in poker.
"Aggressive players can be hard to deal with. With them, you can usually get discriminated bets that are based on complex bluffs. In this scenario, it is better to check and then call."
"When “checking” you have the chance to defer the betting option for a moment after which your opponent can choose to bet. Now, you can call or raise based on the bet placed by your opponent."
Where I’m from, we like to call how you’re posting here, “talking out of your ass”.
Berlusconi, Trump and Boris in politics, JLingz and Jones in football, Charles in aristocratacy, Zuckerberg in IT, Victoria Beckham in singing and fashion.... The list is endless. The world is ruled by people with minimum talent
He got on really well with my missus, who is ultimately of Indian descent, but no real change on his views on gays.
Why are you posting in this thread then? You seem to want to get your views out but not actually take on board anything contrary to your views. You've already said you want to trigger discussion, now that you've been called out you don't want discussion.
You're trying to bait people into calling you out then handwaving it as an attack on "opinion".
Same with me, my dad grew up in rural Wales (as did I) and has had bigoted views. He’s great in a lot of ways but has been shaped by his upbringing. He’s made some great leaps forward though and he’s softened a lot of his stances and has gone from being homophobic to a much more understanding position (though he still has ignorant views on Muslims). The idea that if someone grows up in a household which has backwards views doesn’t mean that we should absolve them like @Jacob implied. People have the capacity to change their views.
Agreed. I’m from a conservative family in the rural south. That doesn’t mean I can’t rhink for myself.
Absolutely agree. But it isn't binary, it's a spectrum from 'bigot' to unscrupulous. Not bad to good.
The problem with this argument is its based on your ego....i.e. not being OK with things because people tell you its right.
Change the above word "homosexuality" for "black people being equal/drinking from the same fountain" and put yourself in the US deep south in the 1950's and you will see this line of argument will always be on the wrong side of history. Prejudice is prejudice even if you don't want to be told your own blind spots.
@Jacob did you forget something?
But why do you feel the need to announce it though?
You are probably correct in this statement
Religion explains why they might think that way, but it doesn't make it any less binary an issue
They are completely wrong to think it isn't 100 percent okay
And I mean the bible is wrong about a bunch of things which Christians just accept/ignore now, isn't it? Such as slavery, or the denigration of handicapped people.
This thread gives me a headache, makes me sick.
I had that exact same thought.
I have a decent imagination. When I imagine how it must feel to have to make micro-calculations on every single new interaction with someone on what can be said or not, it feels nauseatingly overwhelming. I'm sure the reality is even more intense. The lack of empathy and understanding with the some of the posts here. I don't have the patience today, I'm glad others have taken the time to point things out.
Your belief that a police officer wearing an LGBT lanyard automatically equates to them discriminating against others is hilarious. LGBT rights are human rights; it is silly to think that being for human rights equates to discrimination against other groups. Does wearing a lanyard calling for race equality discriminate against the majority?
Claiming that it's PC gone mad when individuals stand for equality is a curious position to take.
Well, actually, it kind of is. Forget the actual amounts, why should one person earn 50% less than their colleague simply because of who they kiss?!
This post is offensive on so many levels I have no idea where to begin.
Disgusting post and I'm frankly surprised it's still viewable.
I highly doubt Pogba for example would be making half his salary if he was gay. I don’t even know if he has a girlfriend, he never really speaks about it.
In fact, I’d imagine the sponsors would love it to have the first gay global superstar.
Also - use De Gea as an example. Do you think in this round of contract negotiations we’d lowball him and potentially lose him by not offering him the wages he deserves because he’s gay?
Ridiculous. There will be plenty of gay footballers, the average fan doesn’t need to know what they get up to in their personal life if they don’t want to share it with us.
Doesn’t that suggest a problem though? No one is saying gay footballers have to come out, but looking at women’s football for comparison and seeing the disparity makes me think that there are male footballers who would reveal their sexuality but are put off by various environmental factors.
I know this is a horrible, trainwreck of a post. But just wanted to highlight the contradictory bold parts.
In one case something isn't natural because you don't see animals doing it, in the other the fact that it occurs in the animal kingdom still doesn't make it natural because hey just because animals doesn't mean we should.
It also doesn't mean just because they grow up in a religious household they aren't a bigot for their bigoted views. It's not a get out of jail card.
I just find it surprising in a debate about human acceptance, bravery and freedom you're worrying about the economics of millionaires based on absolutely nothing.
I'm sure the numerous gay footballers spend about 0.00000001% of their time lamenting their lack of a Lonsdale sponsorship deal because they haven't been pumping last years' Love Island winner.
Look, if you saw my earlier post you'd see that I'm not coming at it flippantly. I find the idea of anyone being discriminated because of sexuality abhorrent, especially when they're told it's not "natural"
What I was commenting on was something that I hadn't previously thought about, and was highlighted by other posters, is that an in-the-closet homosexual has to hide huge parts of their lives and I don't think that's fair.
Then I realised that modern football has become extremely image and marketing focused and compared that with the female struggle for equal pay. They're getting paid less because of traditional society's Victorian outlook on life in the same way as these homosexual footballers.
Now if you think that because someone earns millions they shouldn't moan about earning millions less than their contemporaries simply because they are millionaires, that's up to you.
Up until the point kids start getting battered for wearing the "gay" shirt, and then the sponsers would drop them like hot potatoes
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They 100% wouldn’t.
The outcry when something like that went viral would hugely boost their brand/sponsorship.
Women get paid less than men in football because it doesn’t attract anywhere near the same level of interest, nor do they have anywhere near the same level of ability.
The most positive thing from this thread is the thought that some elite players may be gay and their squad members just accept it-so what, ok-don't ask don't tell.
It's not necessarily useful to think about a footballer like Pogba or Messi coming out as gay. Of course in terms of their careers they'd be fine - the sport's governing bodies and decision makers may only be superficially progressive but that would be more than enough to protect the financial and footballing outcomes for a genuinely exceptional footballer like that.
The problem is what a gay Tom Cleverley or Jordan Ibe (to pluck two PL names out of thin air) can expect. They live the more usual Premier League existence of being talented enough to probably keep working in the PL for most of their careers, but it is a constant battle and they are on a constant knife edge. Watford FC or AFC Bournemouth (again, just continuing the random hypothetical) may officially be all rainbow laces but I guarantee you at the very least a handful of lads in an overwhelmingly working class, culturally-mixed, machismo-driven environment like a football club dressing room are not going to be comfortable with a gay teammate. And that kind of problem with your teammates, no matter how good the intentions and actions of everyone else involved, is probably going to be more than enough to destroy your top level career. And your career, of course, for almost all footballers, is basically the same thing as your entire life.
It needs a top, top name to come out before you're likely to see a more average footballer do it, because the latter is so much more vulnerable to negative outcomes.
Anyone actually interested in this stuff by the way should definitely read 'A Natural' by Ross Raisin. It's a novel about a deeply closeted 19-year-old former PL academy scholar not offered a contract and now struggling along in the squalid underbelly of League Two. It's kind of gruelling but it completely nails a lot of stuff about being gay and closeted but also I think about what it must actually be like to be a footballer, especially down where it gets really precarious and tricky, away from the bright lights of the PL.
The problem is what a gay Tom Cleverley or Jordan Ibe (to pluck two PL names out of thin air) can expect. They live the more usual Premier League existence of being talented enough to probably keep working in the PL for most of their careers, but it is a constant battle and they are on a constant knife edge. Watford FC or AFC Bournemouth (again, just continuing the random hypothetical) may officially be all rainbow laces but I guarantee you at the very least a handful of lads in an overwhelmingly working class, culturally-mixed, machismo-driven environment like a football club dressing room are not going to be comfortable with a gay teammate. And that kind of problem with your teammates, no matter how good the intentions and actions of everyone else involved, is probably going to be more than enough to destroy your top level career. And your career, of course, for almost all footballers, is basically the same thing as your entire life.
It needs a top, top name to come out before you're likely to see a more average footballer do it, because the latter is so much more vulnerable to negative outcomes.
Anyone actually interested in this stuff by the way should definitely read 'A Natural' by Ross Raisin. It's a novel about a deeply closeted 19-year-old former PL academy scholar not offered a contract and now struggling along in the squalid underbelly of League Two. It's kind of gruelling but it completely nails a lot of stuff about being gay and closeted but also I think about what it must actually be like to be a footballer, especially down where it gets really precarious and tricky, away from the bright lights of the PL.
They'd still be seen by gay-bashers as a red rag to a bull (no pun intended) It's alot to ask a footballer to be the center of that kind of attention on top of the increased abuse they'd be getting themselves.
I wasn't talking about women in football, I was talking about the wider world. From the bottom to the top of pretty much any career, women are paid significantly less, and that's taking into account the differences in men and women like pregnancy and child care
What Robbie Fowler did all those years ago was terrible. Even as a Liverpool supporter it was disgraceful. Fowler pulled down the back of his shorts hinting that Graeme Le Saux was gay. It was an idiotic, ignorant and demeaning thing to do. I was amazed the club tolerated such behavior. I would have sold him straight away.
This is quite the thread! I’m from Ireland and we’re quite progressive in terms of equality - which is amazing given the hold the Catholic Church had here.
Our Taoiseach(Prime Minister) is gay. We have male sports stars as TV pundits who are openly gay and nobody cares.
What I find most fascinating is the “culture” of the UK that is the breeding ground for this. Football is just a reflection of a section, or sections, of society. Ireland and UK are only a sea channel apart but seems like centuries in attitudes/outlook.
How did such a toxic, unaccepting culture become so pervasive can anyone tell me?
Our Taoiseach(Prime Minister) is gay. We have male sports stars as TV pundits who are openly gay and nobody cares.
What I find most fascinating is the “culture” of the UK that is the breeding ground for this. Football is just a reflection of a section, or sections, of society. Ireland and UK are only a sea channel apart but seems like centuries in attitudes/outlook.
How did such a toxic, unaccepting culture become so pervasive can anyone tell me?
It’s absolutely horrible and I’m so disappointed that it’s not been removed.
I’m curious - should the post be removed because it offends you or violates the site terms?
Yeah, while I don't agree with it and think it's a stupid post I really don't see why it should be removed and all the people clamouring to declare it be removed are coming across as a bit pathetic to me.
I'm not convinced it's as pervasive as you suggest. The UK also has gay sports pundits. Clare Balding, Gareth Thomas, Martina Navratilova, John Curry, Mark Foster, Tom Daly etc and I don't see anybody getting too upset. London and Brighton have huge Pride events and gay people openly come out right across the country.
I haven't been to any sports events the other side of the water but are you telling me there wouldn't be a minority gang making jokes at an Irish soccer match?
The head ache continues. It's like new people keep coming in without reading any other previous content just to spout their backwards views.