General Election 2017 | Cabinet reshuffle: Hunt re-appointed Health Secretary for record third time

How do you intend to vote in the 2017 General Election if eligible?

  • Conservatives

    Votes: 80 14.5%
  • Labour

    Votes: 322 58.4%
  • Lib Dems

    Votes: 57 10.3%
  • Green

    Votes: 20 3.6%
  • SNP

    Votes: 13 2.4%
  • UKIP

    Votes: 29 5.3%
  • Independent

    Votes: 3 0.5%
  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 2 0.4%
  • Sinn Fein

    Votes: 11 2.0%
  • Other (UUP, DUP, BNP, and anyone else I have forgotten)

    Votes: 14 2.5%

  • Total voters
    551
  • Poll closed .
It's definitely brave, I don't think they've emphasised the uncertainty enough (the Times didn't, certainly) but they should be seeing some of these results and querying it. Canterbury is down as a tossup, I'm guessing based on the student population, but having lived there myself I'm pretty sure it's not going to be anywhere close to two points.
 
Ah yes, the phantom 'waste' like the thousands of police who we no longer have, and the 8 hours a night doctors and nurses used to waste sleeping when they could have been working.

Not to mention the schools where teachers have to bring in pens and paper because the budgets have been cut, then eviscerated.
 
Ah yes, the phantom 'waste' like the thousands of police who we no longer have, and the 8 hours a night doctors and nurses used to waste sleeping when they could have been working.

The best I can find posting on my cellphone. There is a graph on Bloomberg somewhere that shows a huge jump in 1997/8 too.

public-sector-employment-99-12.jpg
 
Thing is @Sassy Colin you're treating an economy as how you would manage the economy of a household.. it is much more complex than that.

Not according to this ;)

Government debt is 90% GDP

Would you rather have 0 deficit, and 0% growth,
Or 5% deficit and 5% growth.
Or 10% deficit and 10% growth.

If only life was so simple :)
 
The best I can find posting on my cellphone. There is a graph on Bloomberg somewhere that shows a huge jump in 1997/8 too.

public-sector-employment-99-12.jpg

Did you show this graph to prove his point about public sector employees?

over the top rules for reasons unknown

Interesting, I guess when it's as broad as that it can be applied to anything.

Sounds like political jargon just for the sake of it to me.
 
This would be a good maths question:
Government debt starts at 90% of GDP.

Each year, the government takes in 35% of GDP as tax receipts.

You are given the choice each year of spending 37% GDP, 35% GDP or 33% GDP as government spending. Any deficit will be added to the total debt, and any surplus will reduce it.

When spending 37% GDP, the total GDP of the state will grow by 4%. When spending 35% of GDP, the total GDP will grow by 2%. When spending 33% GDP, the total GDP of the state will shrink by 1%.

There is no interest on the debt.

You are tasked with bringing the debt down to 75% of GDP within 15 years. What is the optimum strategy for doing so?
 
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If only economic models worked out exactly as planned.

If only life was so simple :)

Lot's of if only's and very little in the way of solid answers, the vagaries you posit lead to this:

if there was two ways of doing something, both of which can result in the same economic situation, one of which is defined by spending on public services, etc. and the other wasn't, leading to poverty and misery, which would you pick?
 
Interesting, I guess when it's as broad as that it can be applied to anything.

Sounds like political jargon just for the sake of it to me.

That's part of the problem, it is pops up everywhere in unexpected places, the work-place, schools, government, virtually all walks of life. Jargon, is a good way of thinking about it, as is the word bollocks.
 
The best I can find posting on my cellphone. There is a graph on Bloomberg somewhere that shows a huge jump in 1997/8 too.

public-sector-employment-99-12.jpg

We're a country with a constantly rising population and needs to be met. That rise in public sector employment before 2008 also went hand in hand with a comparable rise in GDP. How exactly does this equal 'waste' to you?
 
Lot's of if only's and very little in the way of solid answers, the vagaries you posit lead to this:

if there was two ways of doing something, both of which can result in the same economic situation, one of which is defined by spending on public services, etc. and the other wasn't, leading to poverty and misery, which would you pick?

But the last Labour government spent money like it was going out of fashion and look where we ended up. They presided over one of the most sustained periods of economic growth ever seen, but failed to put anything aside for a rainy day (no more boom and bust remember, or rather the biggest bust seen since the 30s), the Tories put the ground work in but Labour reaped the benefits. We could not have carried on spending at that rate. I am not sure what point you are trying to make here.
 

Corbyn supports Arsenal and doesn't think we'll make top 4 next season. Lost my vote.
 
The deficit was bound to go down after the recession hit, ostensibly we're recovering, even if we're not really.
 
But the last Labour government spent money like it was going out of fashion and look where we ended up. They presided over one of the most sustained periods of economic growth ever seen, but failed to put anything aside for a rainy day (no more boom and bust remember, or rather the biggest bust seen since the 30s), the Tories put the ground work in but Labour reaped the benefits. We could not have carried on spending at that rate. I am not sure what point you are trying to make here.

If you look at the link posted on the other page, you'll see the GDP% growth chart that sadly is embedded on the telegraph page at the bottom, where you'll see that the pattern was fairly uniform apart from some boons under New Labour, before the crash, which labour didn't cause. So the Tories didn't really lay the ground-work for anything, if Black Wednesday had happened under John Smith I suspect we'd still be hearing about it today. The point is, Austerity was brought in and has brought public services to their knees, wage growth is over - workers rights are all but done, and you're arguing that Labour is bad with money, when the reality is so are the Tories, the tories just play the cnut and punish the poor. There is no justification for it, that's my point.
 
True but May hasn't show up at all and even her "public appearances" are closed off to anyone other than those who will cheer her. For someone whose entire public image is based around how strong she is, she isn't half frightened of being taken to account. Then again, she always found a way to shirk responsibility when she was, by all accounts, a useless home secretary.
Yeah. I remember when she went to that industrial estate and the journalists were shut in a room, away from the PM, only being let out to ask a small number of questions which they couldn't record.

Or the time she spoke to a room of people in a building in Leeds. Though the people in the building weren't local or people who worked in the office, they were people invited by the party and after the workers had left for the day.

Or the time she listed a rally in Scotland as a children's birthday party in a village hall so locals wouldn't be aware of it.

Or the time she visited a factory in Derbyshire, only, for some reason there weren't any factory workers there and she only answered a few questions from journalists.

When asked today why she wasn't debating, she came up with four different excuses, not being able to stick to one. These are:
First of all, I’ve been taking Jeremy Corbyn on directly, week in, week out, in prime minister’s questions.
Where these basically consist of her making a joke out of the questions he asks to guffaws and backslapping from her back benches.
Yes, public scrutiny is for an election campaign. That’s why taking questions from members of the public who are going to be voting on 8 June is so important. That’s what I enjoy doing during the campaigns. And I think that’s really important. That is why I’ve been doing that up and down the country.
Yeah, so important that she's hiding most of the time.
I think debates where the politicians are squabbling among themselves doesn’t do anything for the process of electioneering. I think it’s about getting out and about, meeting voters and hearing directly from voters.
See above.
I’m interested in the fact that Jeremy Corbyn seems to be paying far more attention to how many appearances on telly he’s doing. I think he ought to be paying a little more attention to thinking about Brexit negotiations. That’s what I’m doing, to make sure we get the best possible deal for Britain.
There it is. Putting focus back on Brexit again.

Her slogan for a large part of the campaign was strong and stable. So strong, she's hiding behind the media letting them argue for her. So strong, she shirks interactions with the public. So strong, she resorts to nasty jibes about the opposition and members of their family rather than speak about her manifesto and the positives in it and reasons to vote for her.

As for stability, a PS4 firmware update is more stable.
 
Will be very, very interesting to see the shift if Corbyn performs well tonight. If Rudd for whatever reason struggles, and comes off worse, May's avoiding the debate will make her seem very, very weak and incapable by comparison.
I can't help but think tonight won't go well for Corbyn. Him being there and May sending a lackey can only lead to labour losing a couple of points to the minor parties.
I do think this was the right move. However, no matter how he does at the debate he'll be panned by the papers with no mention of May avoiding it.
 
@Damien "That’s why taking questions from members of the public who are going to be voting on 8 June is so important. That’s what I enjoy doing during the campaigns."

This bit in particular is just a downright lie, she does not in any way shape or form enjoy talking to the public. Possibly to anybody, but particularly to the unscripted and great unwashed who daren't burst her bubble.
 
But the last Labour government spent money like it was going out of fashion and look where we ended up. They presided over one of the most sustained periods of economic growth ever seen, but failed to put anything aside for a rainy day (no more boom and bust remember, or rather the biggest bust seen since the 30s), the Tories put the ground work in but Labour reaped the benefits. We could not have carried on spending at that rate. I am not sure what point you are trying to make here.
The deficit did go down in 2006 and maybe would have again in 2007 if not for the crash.

And the deficit was very similar to that under the last Tory government.

In fact, just see here

f0fgWu8.png


Those numbers are in Billions, not as a percentage of GDP.
 
Ah yes, the phantom 'waste' like the thousands of police who we no longer have, and the 8 hours a night doctors and nurses used to waste sleeping when they could have been working.

We'll jut forget that PFI ever happened then, as well as the 100s of millions wasted on a botched computerisation programme. Or that less mentioned outcome, Labour closing down services/hospitals in favour of monolithic hubs.

Boris gets the blame for the local police station mind, as that decision originated at City Hall.
 
FT endorsement that was just published is pretty excoriating of May and her plans.
 
We'll jut forget that PFI ever happened then, as well as the 100s of millions wasted on a botched computerisation programme. Or that less mentioned outcome, Labour closing down services/hospitals in favour of monolithic hubs.

Boris gets the blame for the local police station mind, as that decision originated at City Hall.

There are making mistakes with the NHS and then just out-right annihilating it. The only question is will it collapse before or after it is sold off due to May's plans? It rather ironically needs emergency financial surgery, surgery the tories are going to do by selling the NHS property and assets, or removing public funding from the trusts that refuse to do so. If you can afford private health-care, then fair enough, everyone else will be fecked.
 
We'll jut forget that PFI ever happened then, as well as the 100s of millions wasted on a botched computerisation programme. Or that less mentioned outcome, Labour closing down services/hospitals in favour of monolithic hubs.

Boris gets the blame for the local police station mind, as that decision originated at City Hall.

Not really sure what relevance this has to Corbyn and this election if I'm honest with you.
 
There are making mistakes with the NHS and then just out-right annihilating it. The only question is will it collapse before or after it is sold off due to May's plans? It rather ironically needs emergency financial surgery, surgery the tories are going to do by selling the NHS property and assets, or removing public funding from the trusts that refuse to do so. If you can afford private health-care, then fair enough, everyone else will be fecked.
Yeah im not sure how anyone can argue that labour NHS mistakes are even comparable at this point
 


The thought of stomaching her being PM for 5 more years


I'd love the reporter to reply 'Oh really, then why did you call an election instead of focusing on Brexit, which we've only got 2 years to complete and has bucketloads of details to agree upon'?
 
The deficit did go down in 2006 and maybe would have again in 2007 if not for the crash.

And the deficit was very similar to that under the last Tory government.

In fact, just see here

f0fgWu8.png


Those numbers are in Billions, not as a percentage of GDP.

You're right, it should be percentage of GDP, it would look quite different then, and not in a favourable way to the Tories.

What should be considered in the earlier years above is that those deficits are despite one-off massive asset sales and the new north sea oil tax revenues, which were a much larger part of government income than they are now.
 
You're right, it should be percentage of GDP, it would look quite different then, and not in a favourable way to the Tories.

What should be considered in the earlier years above is that those deficits are despite one-off massive asset sales and the new north sea oil tax revenues, which were a much larger part of government income than they are now.
I'm not sure if those would be included or not, I dont think so, but am not sure.

Whats funny is that this was from the guardian. The left are so bad at propaganda!
 
Thanks. Disregarding the world financial crisis of 2008 (controversial maybe) then there doesn't appear to be that much difference. Or maybe you can use it to argue which ever way you wanted to, I'm not sure. :)

The budget debates have and always be nothing more than a proxy for arguments on tax and size of state.

Like immigration its just a convenient tool.
 
Thanks. Disregarding the world financial crisis of 2008 (controversial maybe) then there doesn't appear to be that much difference. Or maybe you can use it to argue which ever way you wanted to, I'm not sure. :)
Really puts thing in perspective... maybe someone can even colour the years red and blue....

Poor Labour
 
I really hope she gets the kicking she deserves for not turning up tonight. She's shown such contempt for the public throughout this campaign, probably her entire political career as well to be fair
 
I really hope she gets the kicking she deserves for not turning up tonight. She's shown such contempt for the public throughout this campaign, probably her entire political career as well to be fair
Corby will get a kicking from the others, and the media will state that May was 'wise to avoid the debate'.