General Election 2017 | Cabinet reshuffle: Hunt re-appointed Health Secretary for record third time

[hobbers]

Some classic leftist tropes creeping in here when joe public votes a way they dont like.

Lucky there are still a few demographics it's fine to castigate.

 

[Dan]

 

[Ubik]

Derbyshire gone as well. Looks like Durham might be all that's left in England.

 

[Kaos]

Please would you consider not relenting with the flagrant ageism? These 'old cnuts' are people too, their views aren't the same as yours but they're citizens and many have worked and contributed taxes their entire lives - they're allowed a voice.

Imagine for a second you replaced the word 'old' with 'black' or 'Jewish' - you'd be rightfully flamed on here.

Don't say it's not the same because it is. Discrimination of a demographic, justified by your own sense of self importance. You're guilty of the very bigotry you claim to despise.

I was referring specifically to a section of the elderly who cling on to their ignorant and outdated worldview, not old people in general.

 

[Zlatattack]

If by idiots you mean those with a lower education level then barring them from voting wouldn't do Labour many favours as the voice of the poor and the uneducated. More graduates and successful people voted Conservative in the last general election.

I didn't mean that at all. Some of the most stupid things I have heard come from educated people. I phD holding twat i came across on facebook suggested Famine in Africa was a blessing for the world, as ultimately it meant a smaller population. If I could get my hands on him, i'd reduce the world population by 1 pompous nitwit. I just think the electorate as a whole are under informed about politics. I don't mind someone voting Tory if they've read about policies and agree with them, but I do mind the lazy casual racists who vote UKIP because they think immigrants are the reason they can't afford 2 holidays a year anymore, not the fact they're having to pay back the credit cards they borrowed 10's of thousands of pounds on. There is a selfish and populist attitude to politics today.

There are few things that make Britain great. The NHS, the welfare system, the accomodating nature to others, the blitz attitude, decent chips. Today most resturants are trying to feed us those frozen shit excuses of chips. There is a growing doom mongering attitude - people aren't as willing to get up the day after someone terrible and get on with life, thankfully the majority still do. The accomodating nature has been blown away due to the efforts of multiple governments. Anything they mess up is the fault of immigrants or Muslims. We still do better than other places, but for how long? When programs like Prevent are trying to institutionalise racism all over again, what chance does society have? If we had a vote today to introduce welfare or the NHS, do you think people would vote for it? I don't think they would - society is too selfish now.

If this selfish attitude is what the electorate will deliver, i'd rather we had leaders who were qualified to do their role, rather than just elected to do it.

 

[Smores]

So the BBC has Labour down 2% in the vote share in England. Given its mainly Tory councils contested thats not that bad.

Its the key seats and areas that need looking at. Glasgow is a suprising loss.

 

[Ubik]

So the BBC has Labour down 2% in the vote share in England. Given its mainly Tory councils contested thats not that bad.

Its the key seats and areas that need looking at. Glasgow is a suprising loss.

They got 29% in 2013, 3 points ahead of the Tories, and that was after shedding tons to UKIP. Seriously, this is dumpster fire level.

 

[Unmutual]

So the BBC has Labour down 2% in the vote share in England. Given its mainly Tory councils contested thats not that bad.

Is that vs 2013?

 

[DenisIrwin]

It seems that in times of hardship and war there is a swing to the right in politics. I don't have the facts to back that up to hand at the moment. Maybe someone else does?

 

[Smores]

Is that vs 2013?

Yeah it is. Only saw the infographic mind you

 

[Penna]

To be fair, the younger 18-40 category have quite progressive views. Give it 10-15 years until the baby boomer cnuts finally die off and then we'll see a shift towards more progressive politics. I'm also certain the Tories will have fecked us over immeasurably by then too which should swing the tide the other way.

Many of the "younger 18-40 category" have primarily selfish views, in my opinion. I'm a baby boomer. I vote for what I think is fairest for everyone, not just for me and mine, because I look back and remember the lessons of my 40 years as a voter. Good luck when all of us older, regressive, inward-looking folks have gone.

 

[Ubik]

To demonstrate that this isn't just happening in already Tory areas - Labour had a majority on Derbyshire council, 43 councillors to the Conversatives' 18. Conservatives now have the majority there.

 

[Stanley Road]

Please would you consider not relenting with the flagrant ageism? These 'old cnuts' are people too, their views aren't the same as yours but they're citizens and many have worked and contributed taxes their entire lives - they're allowed a voice.

Imagine for a second you replaced the word 'old' with 'black' or 'Jewish' - you'd be rightfully flamed on here.

Don't say it's not the same because it is. Discrimination of a demographic, justified by your own sense of self importance. You're guilty of the very bigotry you claim to despise.

Good post.

It's like the Self Righteous Brothers in some of these threads.

 

[711]

Let's not forget the radical changes introduced in the wake of WWII. Imagine what the country, and the world for that matter, would be like if the ruling elite had had free reign and not been forced to stand by as the NHS and so many socialist reforms were introduced. The older generation is/was certainly not all bad. Having said that, I would definitely encourage more youngsters to get involved and vote. It's no bad thing, imo, that so many of them reject MSM and look to unfiltered sources for their news (first hand accounts, videos, etc).

A good point. One reason the left struggles for support nowadays is that much of what they have argued for over the years has been won. And not just after the war, you should include pensions and reforms brought in by the Liberals in pre-Labour days. The right will chip away when in power until the cycle begins again.

 

[ThierryHenry]

@Dobba et al

 

[Stanley Road]

There are few things that make Britain great. The NHS, the welfare system

kidding right?

 

[Dobba]

@Dobba et al

I'm cool not voting alongside people who've seen the treatment of the most vulnerable people in the country over the past 7 years and think 'Yeah, more of that please'. It also makes a bit of a mockery of their crying about being labelled Red Tories given the ease they've managed to join them.

 

[Ramshock]

The UK is fecked. Its going to.be an epic crash and burn these next few years.

 

[17 Van der Gouw]

I'm 32, so just about within the milennial generation and I wholeheartedly agree with @Penna 's observation that younger people tend to be more selfish.

I truly despair at the entitled, chip on our shoulder politics of my generation. Hatred of the rich, resentful envy of the successful and blind to responsibility.

 

[DenisIrwin]

 

[Dobba]

I'm 32, so just about within the milennial generation and I wholeheartedly agree with @Penna 's observation that younger people tend to be more selfish.

I truly despair at the entitled, chip on our shoulder politics of my generation. Hatred of the rich, resentful envy of the successful and blind to responsibility.

Can I move to the UK that you seem to live in please?

 

[Kentonio]

The left has been making this assumption for decades now, along with the assumption that eventually people will get sick of the Tories. Neither has ever panned out and there's no reason to think that'll change.

You mean apart from the 18 years during which the Tories couldn't get a sniff of government and existed in a desolate political wasteland as a result of pissing off so many people the last time they were in office?

 

[17 Van der Gouw]

Can I move to the UK that you seem to live in please?

You don't think that young 'progressives' are hugely resentful of the wealthy?

 

[Dobba]

You don't think that young 'progressives' are hugely resentful of the wealthy?

Oh they clearly are. So much so that every time they get a chance to boot them out of positions of power vast numbers of them don't bother voting. Or they back the likes of Hilary Clinton who famously hasn't got a pot to piss in.

 

[Kentonio]

This is why i'm not a fan of democracy. 1 man 1 vote - that means even the idiots get the same representation as the rest of us. That's unfair. I reckon we should be governed by a panel of subject matter experts who get to sit there for 10 years at a time. These experts can be elected every 10 years but only after they've bee pre-screened and proven to be qualified to lead the country in any given field. Anyone who joins the panel can no longer run a business, cannot have any family members in business or hold shares in any company. They should also be forbidden from holding any roles in business for the rest of their lives. In exchange they should be paid £100k a year for life.

I'm currently favouring a computer AI based form of government, with provisions for the public to override major decisions via online referendum, but yeah democracy can mostly feck off recently.

 

[17 Van der Gouw]

So much so that every time they get a chance to boot them out of positions of power vast numbers of them don't bother voting.

That doesn't mean they're not resentful, and if anything speaks volumes about the whining self entitlement without taking responsibility that I spoke about.

 

[Unmutual]

You mean apart from the 18 years during which the Tories couldn't get a sniff of government and existed in a desolate political wasteland as a result of pissing off so many people the last time they were in office?

It was 13 years, and it was the only time since the second world war they've been out of office for more than 6 years in a spell.

 

[Dobba]

That doesn't mean they're not resentful, and if anything speaks volumes about the whining self entitlement without taking responsibility that I spoke about.

And their backing of Clinton? Was that resentful of the rich too?

In other news, that Lib Dem revival is going well.

 

[17 Van der Gouw]

And their backing of Clinton? Was that resentful of the rich too?

Sorry, I wasn't talking about America: but yes, the idiotic hypocrisy of many of the occupy movement who demonised the 1% whilst backing Clinton was unsurprising, but once again, it just reinforces what I've said twice now: it's the politics of not taking responsibility. They'll have their mass protests in D.C and shout and scream about the rich and how oppressed and poor they are (usually whilst taking selfies on their $400 iPhones) then champion another millionaire to get them out of their perceived 'poverty'

 

[Ubik]

Rotheram wins Liverpool in first round and Burnham likely to do same in Greater Manc.

 

[ZupZup]

They got 29% in 2013, 3 points ahead of the Tories, and that was after shedding tons to UKIP. Seriously, this is dumpster fire level.

I think Labour are in quite a difficult position and this will be reflected in the GE too. They can't change policy to appeal to UKIP's voter base. It would do far more harm than good to them and would turn off a lot of their core support. The Tories however are perfectly positioned to become the acceptable face of UKIP... which is probably why they appear to have hoovered up all of the UKIP vote in these elections.

This is by far the biggest factor in these election results rather than Labour losing votes directly to the Tories since 2013.

 

[rcoobc]

Maybe, just maybe, they will vote this time

 

[Zlatattack]

Young people not voting is the stupidest thing they can do. We're shooting ourselves in the foot. I've always voted, but know a lot of people who don't bother.

 

[Kentonio]

It was 13 years, and it was the only time since the second world war they've been out of office for more than 6 years in a spell.

Yeah you're right, I'd forgotten about John Majors win. It doesn't alter the fact though that a deeply unpopular conservative government made themselves unelectable for over a decade. It's hard to piss off the British people so much that you go from government to unelectable, but it does happen. I think its also much more likely to happen in the future due to the mass communication formats we have that didn't exist previously. Pre-conceptions are strengthened by constant exposure to bias confirmation due to how social media works. If the Tories overplay their hand like they seem to be doing, and people are hit with the stark consequences economically or with continued drastic change to services, then the Tories really could screw themselves for another decade and more.

 

[Kentonio]

Young people not voting is the stupidest thing they can do. We're shooting ourselves in the foot. I've always voted, but know a lot of people who don't bother.

I don't know how we ended up in a situation where young people don't think politics is relevant to them, its insane.

 

[rcoobc]

Young people not voting is the stupidest thing they can do. We're shooting ourselves in the foot. I've always voted, but know a lot of people who don't bother.

I've missed one vote, for the police and crime commissioners (the 2nd time)

The £85,000 police and crime commissioner.

Average turnout in this area, 21%. Even the oldies didnt bother with that

 

[altodevil]

Yeah you're right, I'd forgotten about John Majors win. It doesn't alter the fact though that a deeply unpopular conservative government made themselves unelectable for over a decade. It's hard to piss off the British people so much that you go from government to unelectable, but it does happen. I think its also much more likely to happen in the future due to the mass communication formats we have that didn't exist previously. Pre-conceptions are strengthened by constant exposure to bias confirmation due to how social media works. If the Tories overplay their hand like they seem to be doing, and people are hit with the stark consequences economically or with continued drastic change to services, then the Tories really could screw themselves for another decade and more.

Wishful thinking pal. What's more worrying is that no competent leadership candidate will want to touch Labour with a barge pole. Have to think there will be a new movement.

 

[Dobba]

I don't know how we ended up in a situation where young people don't think politics is relevant to them, its insane.

I think Nick Clegg held up a bit of paper once with one explanation for it.

 

[Smores]

I don't know how we ended up in a situation where young people don't think politics is relevant to them, its insane.

My experience is that they don't keep up with politics so feel like they're not informed so don't bother OR they think its all shit so no point.

The vast majority don't really pay much attention beyond hearing things on the news. We need more political satire and comedy i think.

 

[Kentonio]

Wishful thinking pal. What's more worrying is that no competent leadership candidate will want to touch Labour with a barge pole. Have to think there will be a new movement.

I don't think you can call it wishful thinking, when it already happened not that many years ago. As for competent leadership candidates, as long as Labour are the main opposition and the main party of the left they'll attract talent. Politicians are nothing if not ambitious, egotistical feckers, and the chance to do a Blair and re-make a major party in your image is attractive.