General Election 2017 | Cabinet reshuffle: Hunt re-appointed Health Secretary for record third time

[Smores]

Did you expect anything else?

TV debates, interviews, and this sort of adversarial debating rarely produce anything of note and are mostly an exercise in damage limitation. The only people who ever make significant gains on these things are the ones who are both good orators and unknown to the public like Clegg in 2010.

For the rest its a largely pointless exercise that does nothing but give politics nerds the chance to enjoy watching the other party squirm. I'm not even convinced many people watch them.

Its the only time my non-political friends spend any time listening to either leader so I'm not sure about that.

I find it wierd anyone saying that was a draw, Corbyn came off normal and May weak which is the exact opposite of what the papers have been presenting for months.

No ground-breaking moment but these things are always death by a thousand cuts.

 

[rcoobc]

Yeah increased vote share a bit, but getting 23% when you were polling about 27% will always feel extra defeating. There's probably a lesson there about polls and young voters

Honestly, I don't think there is anything to be ashamed of with how the Lib Dems did in 2010. They did what they had to do, which was prevent both the Tories and Labour from getting a majority, and allow themselves to finally, finally, get into a position of power. They could shake off the "no experience" line, they could show the UK that having coalition governments can work, and work well.

And then they fecked it up.

 

[Drainy]

Just caught up with that, absolute car crash from May. Felt Corbyn dealt with it very well, doubt these interviews really change many people's opinions though.

I think that on Redcafe we are generally more sympathetic to Corbyn's politics than the average voter.

My guess is that the unwashed masses will be more likely to vote for May than Corbyn after watching that.

Take away points;

Corbyn= sympathy for terrorists and our enemies
May= feck the EU

The rest will be forgotten about/ is secondary

 

[Jippy]

Yeah, Leeds Castle has one of those i think. Odd.

I bought a meerkat one for my sister a few years ago, and husky sledding before that. I though she showed some guts when the handler said: "if you wouldn't mind entering the cage and putting their harness on".

We did the meerkat one at London zoo- is quite fun as they scamper all over you. We did a red panda morning somewhere- they are the sweetest creatures on earth. The best one was feeding lemurs when we volunteered in a South African zoo for a week- they leap all over you.

 

[SER19]

Front pages of tomorrows broadsheets sum up the absolute state of the United Kingdom. Run and will continue to be run by a disgusting, tiresome, self serving incestuous elite at every level.

 

[Ubik]

Honestly, I don't think there is anything to be ashamed of with how the Lib Dems did in 2010. They did what they had to do, which was prevent both the Tories and Labour from getting a majority, and allow themselves to finally, finally, get into a position of power. They could shake off the "no experience" line, they could show the UK that having coalition governments can work, and work well.

And then they fecked it up.

Yeah I agree on that, was really just making the point that even in a case when a debate had a clear effect on polls, it didn't seem to have a big effect on the final outcome. But then at the same time we don't know the counterfactual, and the Lib Dems could've done even worse without the debate performance...

Think more will watch the BBC QT one. Even I didn't watch this and I'm vaguely obsessed with politics.

 

[Drainy]

 

[Ramshock]

Just caught up with that, absolute car crash from May. Felt Corbyn dealt with it very well, doubt these interviews really change many people's opinions though.

Meh wont make a difference anyway.

 

[rcoobc]

People forget this. They think that the Lib Dems did well in 2010.

They did fine. They went to 57 seats from 62, whilst increasing their share of the vote. Whilst Labour lost nearly 30% of their seats, and lost 6% of the vote. Nothing ground breaking, nothing awful. They stayed relevant. They stayed in a position to act as key makers.

 

[DenisIrwin]

Check out #TheresaMayGifs on twitter now for a laugh.

 

[RedSky]

I think that on Redcafe we are generally more sympathetic to Corbyn's politics than the average voter.

My guess is that the unwashed masses will be more likely to vote for May than Corbyn after watching that.

Take away points;

Corbyn= sympathy for terrorists and our enemies
May= feck the EU

The rest will be forgotten about/ is secondary

Then again, May also came across as someone who isn't trustworthy and doesn't do her job well (Paxman interview). It's difficult to know whether people would get caught up in the words May was using and zoning out rather than actually listening to what she said. Most of the time ignoring the questions she was given and instead coming out with rehearsed lines. When she was forced to think on her feet she bombed badly.

 

[DOTA]

They did fine. They went to 57 seats from 62, whilst increasing their share of the vote. Whilst Labour lost nearly 30% of their seats, and lost 6% of the vote. Nothing ground breaking, nothing awful. They stayed relevant. They stayed in a position to act as key makers.

Staying relative when given a chance of a lifetime, with a clean sheet and three way debates... Honestly I was expecting them to do so much better. I was hoping for them to do so (as this was before we learnt they were happy to prop up Tories).

 

[NinjaFletch]

Its the only time my non-political friends spend any time listening to either leader so I'm not sure about that.

I find it wierd anyone saying that was a draw, Corbyn came off normal and May weak which is the exact opposite of what the papers have been presenting for months.

No ground-breaking moment but these things are always death by a thousand cuts.

It depends what you mean by non-political though. I would say a lot of my friends are not political in that they don't enjoy discussing politics, but they're well informed and make a decision based on what they consume even if thats not as much as you or I. Nevertheless, on the spectrum of political engagement they're still relatively engaged.

Beyond that, there is a subset of voters who will vote based on virtually nothing and who don't engage with anything like this. There was a Yougov survey the other week about slogans that pointed out that 'STRONG AND STABLE' had only been heard by 15% of the electorate. That's a crazy number considering the fact that it's overuse had become a meme to the 15% that had heard it.

 

[Ubik]

Crosby is definitely putting his foot down on message discipline

 

[Cheesy]

Crosby is definitely putting his foot down on message discipline

If I were a major party figure I'd be wary of how much traction this argument holds. It essentially seems to be the Tories attempting to ignore actual policy, instead focusing on why voters have to back them for something they've imposed upon the country, instead of why they should.

And, again, anyone who's even remotely politically astute will ask the Tories one thing: if having them in charge is so pivotal, so vital to the Brexit process...why the feck did they call an election?! They had a guaranteed method of ensuring they were the ones exacting this process. A method which involved just...doing what they were doing. Without an election. They quite literally had a guarantee which could've ensured they were in government until a full year after the Article 50 debacle was done and dusted. And they chose to...err, ignore it!

 

[Drainy]

Then again, May also came across as someone who isn't trustworthy and doesn't do her job well (Paxman interview). It's difficult to know whether people would get caught up in the words May was using and zoning out rather than actually listening to what she said. Most of the time ignoring the questions she was given and instead coming out with rehearsed lines. When she was forced to think on her feet she bombed badly.

Most people will only see the highlights and the only 'zinger' was her getting called a blowhard - most people will sneeringly enjoy that moment but it doesn't affect her electability.

The struggles won't be on the 24 hour news. Her saying that she is willing to walk away without a deal will be- and that may be a horrendous idea but the average voter won't think about the consequences.. they just voted for chaos once, why not again?

 

[NinjaFletch]

If I were a major party figure I'd be wary of how much traction this argument holds. It essentially seems to be the Tories attempting to ignore actual policy, instead focusing on why voters have to back them for something they've imposed upon the country, instead of why they should.

And, again, anyone who's even remotely politically astute will ask the Tories one thing: if having them in charge is so pivotal, so vital to the Brexit process...why the feck did they call an election?! They had a guaranteed method of ensuring they were the ones exacting this process. A method which involved just...doing what they were doing. Without an election. They quite literally had a guarantee which could've ensured they were in government until a full year after the Article 50 debacle was done and dusted. And they chose to...err, ignore it!

And also you'd hope Labour would hammer them on 'no deal' being a fecking terrible idea and make people worse off. I think the Tories are vulnerable to it being portrayed as something for the rich that the poor would have to foot the bill for.

 

[Dobba]

That would be a great speech if it was being made by say, someone who had been in a coma for the last 50 years or even better, some sort of alien life form. Getting lectured on the importance of NHS, welfare and fecking 'liberal values' by a sodding Tory.

 

[Smores]

It depends what you mean by non-political though. I would say a lot of my friends are not political in that they don't enjoy discussing politics, but they're well informed and make a decision based on what they consume even if thats not as much as you or I. Nevertheless, on the spectrum of political engagement they're still relatively engaged.

Beyond that, there is a subset of voters who will vote based on virtually nothing and who don't engage with anything like this. There was a Yougov survey the other week about slogans that pointed out that 'STRONG AND STABLE' had only been heard by 15% of the electorate. That's a crazy number considering the fact that it's overuse had become a meme to the 15% that had heard it.

Well i was using the bottom range as my example those who don't follow current events, i dont know if this is seen as the one event to bother with or not. All anecdotal though (i.e pointless) and yeah i remember that poll and thinking the same at the time.

Think the news reels will carry more weight and Corbyn will fare worse with that annoyingly.

 

[Ultimate Grib]

Oh my fecking god I watched her get mauled by Paxman and I got so excited I was dip snapping all through it. I haven't done that since the 2000's

 

[Smores]

Some very conspicuous twitter silence from certain Labour MPs following that. Bit of a shame

 

[matherto]

It's sad when someone so horribly out of place and out of touch is leading the party that'll inevitably win.

But alas, we can try and vote against her, try...

 

[MoBeats]

They are both shit tbh, either way we're doomed. At least the country won't be bankrupt under the Torys.

The country won't be but most of the people will be.

 

[buckooo1978]

May is laughable but I wonder how many she convinced..... to listen to her you'd think education or health were flourishing

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

Except she never said that. She said 'West Indian mothers will go to the wall for their children'. It was only the media who decided to spin it into anything about other mothers. Let me guess, when you heard Black Lives Matter you immediately lost your shit and starting shouting that All Lives Matter right?



Oh get to feck, Britain is over 92% white ffs. It beggars belief that white Brits would try and claim they're victims of racism.



No, it'd be an obvious assumption based on the demographics and even the most cursory examination of history, society and such things as the highest ranking police officer in Britain admitting as recently as 2015 that the police were still institutionally racist. Here's a clue for you, they aren't racist towards the white people.

West Indian mothers will go to the wall for their children'.


If she hadn't said West Indian it would be a flat out sexist remark. With the West Indian reference, it is racist and sexist.

Your problem here is that you are trying to pretend that making a preferential distinction between the commitment to their children of West Indian mothers versus mothers of other races is not racist. Clearly, it is. I do not understand how that escapes you.

 

[Kentonio]

West Indian mothers will go to the wall for their children'.


If she hadn't said West Indian it would be a flat out sexist remark. With the West Indian reference, it is racist and sexist.

Your problem here is that you are trying to pretend that making a preferential distinction between the commitment to their children of West Indian mothers versus mothers of other races is not racist. Clearly, it is. I do not understand how that escapes you.

Probably because it's bollocks.

"People from Newcastle pull together in a crisis". Oh my god, you mean anyone not from Newcastle doesn't pull together in a crisis?! You're calling people from Birmingham weak and anti-social?! You monster!

 

[Kentonio]

 

[Dobba]

 

[Silva]

 

[Untied]

It's quite depressing that this 'no deal is better than a bad deal' line has actually broken through. Assuming Davis and May are still in place, I expect the negotiations to have broken down before the end of the year, probably over the summer.

 

[Ubik]

He needs to be at the next debate to push that message, otherwise he comes off just as bad.

 

[Untied]

Crosby is definitely putting his foot down on message discipline

They are in a bit of a contradictory mess aren't they. (quelle surprise)

"No deal is better than a bad deal, but if we don't get a successful deal we are fecked"

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

Probably because it's bollocks.

"People from Newcastle pull together in a crisis". Oh my god, you mean anyone not from Newcastle doesn't pull together in a crisis?! You're calling people from Birmingham weak and anti-social?! You monster!

So people from Newcastle, they can send their kids to private school and attack people from everywhere else for doing so because they love their kids more?

That was Abbott's point.

 

[Kentonio]

So people from Newcastle, they can send their kids to private school and attack people from everywhere else for doing so because they love their kids more?

That was Abbott's point.

Sure, if you completely ignore the context of that story I mentioned about why she supposedly allowed her kid to do what they wanted despite it being highly damaging to her own political image

 

[Ubik]

This is the kind of thing that makes me sceptical



80% of people certain to vote... feels unlikely.

 

[NinjaFletch]

This is the kind of thing that makes me sceptical



80% of people certain to vote... feels unlikely.

Is that weighted or unweighted?

Seems universally high across the board which may suggest they're adjusting for this over-reporting (it would be downright ridiculous if they weren't).

 

[Red Star One]

Did you expect anything else?

TV debates, interviews, and this sort of adversarial debating rarely produce anything of note and are mostly an exercise in damage limitation. The only people who ever make significant gains on these things are the ones who are both good orators and unknown to the public like Clegg in 2010.

For the rest its a largely pointless exercise that does nothing but give politics nerds the chance to enjoy watching the other party squirm. I'm not even convinced many people watch them.

Well, I think quite a few learned today that Corbyn is actually capable of giving a very decent performance in TV. I remember this being question a lot of times, today he smiled more and looked much sharper than a Tory candidate, who would've thought in '15.

 

[Nikhil]

Brilliant reply! Loved it.

 

[Ubik]

Is that weighted or unweighted?

Seems universally high across the board which may suggest they're adjusting for this over-reporting (it would be downright ridiculous if they weren't).

Those are the self-reported likelihoods to vote, which then get weighted at 1.0 for a 10, 0.9 for a 9 etc. But yeah, whilst I can fully believe that Corb's motivated the youngsters and they'll turn out higher than 2015, very sceptical 18-24 would be as close as that to 65-74s... But, politics has been anything but predictable of late.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Front page of The Sun tomorrow has a story on Corbyn and immigration and surprise surprise not a peep of May's disaster.

Absolutely hate the media, cannot find any source that will report the facts fairly and concisely.