I’d say we are nearly two thirds into Ole’s project, do we rip that up and start yet again ? He’s got further down the line than Moyes, LVG or Mourinho did in terms of moulding a side and an identity and might as well let him finish it. OK, we might waste another year if he messes up but we could waste another three years by starting yet again with a new man and a clean slate.
Get Mauricio In
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I’d say we are nearly two thirds into Ole’s project, do we rip that up and start yet again ? He’s got further down the line than Moyes, LVG or Mourinho did in terms of moulding a side and an identity and might as well let him finish it. OK, we might waste another year if he messes up but we could waste another three years by starting yet again with a new man and a clean slate.
I don't understand this kind of thinking why would everything needs to be ripped up if we get another manager unless whatever rebuilding under Ole being done is sub-par and if that's the case why would you want another year of the same.
Is there anything that needs to be ripped up if a new manager is brought in ? I dont think so.
Ole, has to his credit, made it far easier now for a smooth transition for the next United manager. Minor tweaks needed.
Ole, has to his credit, made it far easier now for a smooth transition for the next United manager. Minor tweaks needed.
Sacking the manager and starting over is just as arguably another 2-3 years of the same. Particularly when the guy everyone's obsessing over has done lliterally nothing in his career that wouldn't get him the sack at United. We have no strategy as a club other than the one Ole has introduced so a new manager would mean starting again as it has every other time.
I've said this many times but firstly I don't understand the obsession United fans have with shitting on their own manager purely because he isn't someone else, and I particularly don't get it when the someone else they have in mind is a manager who got sacked from Tottenham Hotspur, who have now replaced him wiith the manager WE sacked, who has turned Tottenham into a better team than they were.
I also fear that if we did get Pochettino for example, because of the almost cult like appreciation he gets on here, we'd end up in a situation like with Van Gaal where loads of idiots would constanntly come up with bullshit analysis about his tactical genius, and if it did go wrong, no matter how obvious it got that he didn't actually know what he was doing, people wouldn't want to climb down from their egos and admit it. We could have the exact same start to the season as now and have obnoxious twats tellling us all it's part of the process or "philosopy".
I just don't think I can stomach that again as it was so amazingly tedious....and the other problem is that if we chose anyone other than Pochettino, the samme idiots woould immediately be against that manager on the grounds that they are not Pochettino, which has already been half of both Ole and Mourinho's battle.
Not really ripped up but a lot of the problems that were there when he took over are still there
Proper proven striker (Cavani is short term only)
Centre backs
Attacking full backs (Telles may have sorted LB, early days though obviously)
DCM to replace Matic
RW
Getting Pogba playing well consistently (or sold)
Lack of a settled recognised system and style of play
Not enough “leaders on the pitch”
No Director of Football type person
Still some deadwood, although he has made progress on this.
The one position we have sorted is no.10 or ACM, whatever you want to call it, with Bruno and VDB
Well this is completely wrong. He played 5-3-2 with Dier at CB and Wanyama and Dembele in CM often in 2016/17 and I'd argue that was their best season. And so what if he uses the same formation, Klopp has used 4-3-3 since Coutinho left, Conte used 3-4-3 and cake walked a league title as did Ranieri with Leicester's 4-4-2.
When you find a formation or system that works for you there's no need to change it. Football can be as simple as you want it to be especially when winning.
I am actually much more impressed by Ralph H
The problem with all of that is that there are other clubs that will change a manager if they recognise he's not up to task or if there is a better option. If they know what they're doing, making the change will take a team up a level. Bayern have done it, Real have done it, Liverpool have done it, Leicester did it. I'm sure there's loads of examples. The only caveat is that those making the decision have to have a bit of footballing nous and identify the right manager that can work well with what they have, which I'd imagine is quite a lot of managers in our case when you look at our squad right now.
There's nothing wrong with changing a manager if it isn't working or even if someone else can probably do better, but that isn't really the same as this kind of poisoness thing we have on here where people refuse to back a manager in the first place unless it's the exact person they want. We have a pretty bizarre fanbase these days. Most fans are never happy when their team isn't doing well but I've never known a fan base to be more obsessed with someone they want to be manager than with how well the current one is doing. Particularly not when as I aid the manager in question's biggest achievement was getting sacked from Tottenham Hotspur.
We also don''t do the changing manager thing very well so again I don't get the desire to rush into it when absolutely nothing about the club has changed since the last 3 times we did it. Clubs like Real or Bayern are set up to be succesful despite being fluid with who manages the team. Liverpool have found the right manager after a period of changing every few years and largely being unsucessful. They wont be sacking or replacing Klopp anytime soon.
The biggest argument you can make now to things being different is that we have a better set of players than a couple of years ago...but then that's in no small part down to our current manager. He's the one who's pushed Greenwood into the team, signed Fernandes, overseen improvements to players like Fred, McTominay, Rashfrd, Martial...players who the last manager wouldn't give a platform to. You don't have any way to know a new manager would have the same ethos or preferences, and you certainly know the club has no system in place to make sure those things are consistent.
Redcafe: Ole In = 58.5% Ole Out = 41.5%
Reddit: In r/reddevils the support for Ole is even bigger.
Match going fan: Always behind Ole.
Yea our fanbase is so terrible, how I wish we are as patient as Real Madrid or Barcelona or Bayern fanbase
I thought Poc's biggest achievement is getting into the CL final, but I guess I am wrong...
For the record, I am always Ole in and didn't rate Poc at all, but I hate the "Man UTD fan bad" argument.
Do other club's fans have the same obsession with him or is it just ours?
Just ours, no one else seems to give a toss about him.
He's not a particularly exciting appointment relative to some others we could go for, if we part ways with Solskjaer.
Of course not. I feel like the media has done a number on many Utd fans in raising Poch to a level of some sort of obvious saviour.
I doubt PSG fans are desperate for him to take over there, but who knows with that lot.
It certainly seems that way. I don't see him as a bad option for our next manager but you would think he was the only option the way he's talked about.
Redcafe: Ole In = 58.5% Ole Out = 41.5%
Reddit: In r/reddevils the support for Ole is even bigger.
Match going fan: Always behind Ole.
Yea our fanbase is so terrible, how I wish we are as patient as Real Madrid or Barcelona or Bayern fanbase
I thought Poc's biggest achievement is getting into the CL final, but I guess I am wrong...
For the record, I am always Ole in and didn't rate Poc at all, but I hate the "Man UTD fan bad" argument.
I'm not sure Real Madrid is a good barometer to judge a fanbase against and I also don't think any of those fanbases expend so much of their effort on talking about Mauricio Pochettino. I'm not even sure Tottenham fans did when he was their manager. I seem to remember people liked mocking Liverpool fans on here in days past but the behaviour from our fans on here now is at times equally silly.
It's not about "Man UTD fan bad" whatever that means. It's about the idiocy of spending so much time and effort talking about a manager who isn't our manager, and in some cases willing our current manager to fail just because he isn't said manager. I mean if you want I think you can make quite a good argument that this is the behaviour of a "bad" fan, but more to the point it's the behaviour of a stupid one.
The CL final argument is as straw clutchy as it gets and it's just an example of the weird cult mentality around Pochettino that so many people bring it up as if it's undeniable proof of his credentials. We've lost CL finals before. Do you give a feck about the ones we lost? Does anyone? Do you think every manager who gets to a CL final is automatically a really good manager? It's of literally no relevance. Particularly as the complete loss of form and horrible performances outside of the CL are what ultimately ended up costing Pochettino his job. If losing a final was such a great achievement they wouldn't have sacked him only a few months later due to how badly he was doing.
IF we got rid of Ole and hired Pochettino. THEN it would be time to start supporting Pochettino and hoping that he can do the business here. At the moment it's like deciding some random Southampton player is better than Rashford, and then there being threads on here, in the United forum, every fecking week, about said player playing for us instead of Rashford because of how bad Rashford is compared to them. It would be dumb and extremely tiring and it wouldn't make any sense at all...but that's exactly what's going on with these bloody Pochettino threads.
I get that, I've stood behind Moyes an Jose (LVG was too hard with the football) but I now go by the standards that others applied when I was arguing their case. Your argument seems to be that Woodward wouldn't do a good job so let's not bother. I think there's some really good and obvious candidates out there right now, in my mind it wouldn't be a disaster to give one of them a chance.
Let's face it, if Ole never played for us he'd have never got the job in a million years, yet some think he's doing a decent job. I'm just too convinced that a coach with a higher standing or somebody doing really good things with a smaller club, of which there are a few, would take us up a level that I'm now convinced Ole can't. It might not be fashionable but I actually thought Poch did a good job at Spurs and I remember one game in particular against us where they played us off the park, that's when I thought he'd be a good option for us. There were a lot of reports that Fergie thought we should bring him in at one stage too.
Funnily enough I'm related to a big Spurs supporter and he told me the other day that there were rumours of Poch coming in (paper gossip) and I was asking what he thought. He said he'd improve us a lot and that he was kind of gutted because he was hoping he'd go back there when Jose goes. Apparently a lot of Spurs fans didn't even want him gone, despite their league position.
I do think that Hasenhuttl deserves a shot at a big club and it wouldn't surprise me if Bayern or another big club eventually gave him a chance. But he'd possibly be my first choice and that's not just based on this season.
Not that I know for sure but I think the club was genuinely after a DoF after sacking Mourinho because we reached a point where we massively needed one. But that didn't happen because Ole came and did well and brought about this idea of gaining back the lost culture which the board bought so they suspended that DoF idea.
If we get Poch he's another person that works without a DoF so we would suspend that idea again (though it's very possible we never wanted a DoF). I'm not against Pochettino but if he was unavailable and Ole reached a point where he deserved to go I wonder if the club will finally get a DoF
If we get Poch he's another person that works without a DoF so we would suspend that idea again (though it's very possible we never wanted a DoF). I'm not against Pochettino but if he was unavailable and Ole reached a point where he deserved to go I wonder if the club will finally get a DoF
The point is, you talk about "bizarre fanbase", about "poison" like there are oh wow our fan is so bad, while in reality, Ole is still getting the majority of the support from our fanbase.
Even in those Pochettino's thread, there is only a vocal minority that championing him like a great manager.
People want Pochettino not just because he's Pochettino, but because they think he will improve our team. Replace Pochettino with Klopp and they will think the same. If they really want Pochettino just because he's Pochettino and wants Ole to fail, there must be a lot of posts/threads while we were flying with Ole, but that's not the case.
Also, Pochettino is the only one available right now, so the OP can't start a "Get Klopp in", right?
Surely, as "irrelevant" as the CL's final is (
), it's still a bigger achievement than "getting sacked by Spur" right?You are not a forum's police. People have a right to talk about the available manager that they think will improve our team. You can ignore those threads if you like.