Global economy - Future stock market collapse..

Economic freedom of the world report: 2016 (data is 2014).

p. 25, exhibit 1.9: economic freedom and economic growth: Countries with more economic freedom are having higher growth rates.
p. 26, exhibit 1.11+1.12: Eco freedom and income share of the poorest 10%: in the top40 countries: the income share of the bottom 10% is bigger both in relative and absolute terms.

Politicians should take a look at Switzerland, New Zealand or Canada.
There is really no reason to score bad in area 2, 3 and 4 (Legal system, property rights, sound money and freedom of trade), especially the performance of legal systems is often overlooked when it comes to wealth. Additionally it is absolutely possible to combine a strong welfare state and economic freedom. Subsidies so are terrible for the creation of wealth and should be avoided.

Chapter 5 is a case study for Ireland and chapter 6 one for the USA.
 
@Jippy

Did it already get announced, which MREL quotas certain banks need to reach? Is this getting published at all? How do English banks deal with this in the wake of Brexit? Do they try to comply or do they just look at TLAC?
 
@Jippy

Did it already get announced, which MREL quotas certain banks need to reach? Is this getting published at all? How do English banks deal with this in the wake of Brexit? Do they try to comply or do they just look at TLAC?
I'm actually not sure. Says in this calendar that MREL reporting guidelines were due out in July. I mainly let my deputy deal with regulation tbh. Wouldn't be surprised if it's been pushed back, given first Mifid II, then Priips was.
https://www.eba.europa.eu/documents...2016.pdf/951f4c02-c0a5-435f-a484-dd9e1cb6fea1

Post-Brexit, not sure how it works with the EBA? Do they just go solely under the PRA/FCA? I'm writing about investment management, so am a tad removed from the technicalities of banking regulation I'm afraid.
 
I'm actually not sure. Says in this calendar that MREL reporting guidelines were due out in July. I mainly let my deputy deal with regulation tbh. Wouldn't be surprised if it's been pushed back, given first Mifid II, then Priips was.
https://www.eba.europa.eu/documents...2016.pdf/951f4c02-c0a5-435f-a484-dd9e1cb6fea1

Post-Brexit, not sure how it works with the EBA? Do they just go solely under the PRA/FCA? I'm writing about investment management, so am a tad removed from the technicalities of banking regulation I'm afraid.


Cheers. I just found out that this isn´t getting published till the end of October.

I am myself quite confused how this is all going to play out. National regulators are still in charge under EBA. EBA can just interfere under certain circumstances and sets guidelines that need to be adopted by each country. I am not even entirely sure which agency is actually coming up with the MREL quotas and how the process works. I think that the national agencies do it (so the BOE/PRA for England), but I am not entirely sure how much oversight there is from EBA, which would be quite interesting considering that this agency will have a lot of leeway to influence to outcome.

I am just wondering if banks internally say “well feck that…we are out till 2020” or if they are going to fully comply. That might help to understand their calculation about the future developments around Brexit.

Once Britain is out, EBA doesn´t have any authority about British banks. It will just be like with Swiss banks, where they can´t do anything (just about certain subsidiaries of these banks).
 
Cheers. I just found out that this isn´t getting published till the end of October.

I am myself quite confused how this is all going to play out. National regulators are still in charge under EBA. EBA can just interfere under certain circumstances and sets guidelines that need to be adopted by each country. I am not even entirely sure which agency is actually coming up with the MREL quotas and how the process works. I think that the national agencies do it (so the BOE/PRA for England), but I am not entirely sure how much oversight there is from EBA, which would be quite interesting considering that this agency will have a lot of leeway to influence to outcome.

I am just wondering if banks internally say “well feck that…we are out till 2020” or if they are going to fully comply. That might help to understand their calculation about the future developments around Brexit.

Once Britain is out, EBA doesn´t have any authority about British banks. It will just be like with Swiss banks, where they can´t do anything (just about certain subsidiaries of these banks).
Tbh, the FCA tended to gold-plate European rules anyway and we'll still need to meet their standards, so it's not like much will change in reality.
 
More than £22bn wiped off FTSE 100 as banks rattled by Deutsche's latest share price plunge
 
More than £22bn wiped off FTSE 100 as banks rattled by Deutsche's latest share price plunge

I think the DB issue could be a potential black swan event for Europe (and by extension for global markets). Their derivatives exposure could be a massive problem going forward.
 
Sorry it took me so long to respond @PedroMendez. You deserved a thorough response and I hadn't had time up to now.
I think some oversight is necessary and warranted. Oversight that creates transparency makes imo a lot of sense. That said all the oversight in the past failed and they will fail similarly in the future.
This really depends on how you define failing... Oversight won't keep banks from failing by itself, it can limit the consequences though (If it limits exposure to certain markets etc.). Obviously neither oversight nor regulation will ever be perfect, however I still think they need to play a role if we are to limit the damage of a future crisis. I guess we have to agree to disagree on that point.
I am very well aware how most financial businesses work and I am well aware of how regulation works. Almost every line of law has unintended consequences, which makes the issue extremely complex. It is unavoidable regardless of how smart you are. Thats why all these rules are hundreds of pages long and create an absurd amount of commentary.
Yes every line of law has unintended consequences, but that's true of all laws, not just those concerning the financial sector. I don't see how that can be an argument for abolishing laws though...

No they can´t. That is clearly not true. It is extremely expansive and even the FED itself acknowledges this. It would make a lot of sense of smaller banks to go down the route of smaller leverage rates with simpler risk models (simpler doesnt mean worse), but this is de-facto impossible at the moment.
I think there's an argument to be had whether simpler means worse in the context of risk models (risk is an incredible hard thing to quantify, and in my opinion the more nuanced a model is, the better). Complexity isn't a virtue in itself, but if done right I think a complex model will generally be superior to a simpler one.


more regulation = more centralised banking system with few mega banks.
This really depends on the type of regulation. In principle you are right of course, in the sense that excessive regulation will prohibit a small bank from operating successfully. I don't think that is the case at current point in time though and would point to the decrease of commercial banks in the USA after the Garn-St. Germain Depository Institutions Act of 1982 to support my argument. (http://ilsr.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/number-banks-1966-2014.jpg, I'll look for a better source later, this one looks kinda sketchy).

No it is not. In a free market many European countries would be broke. They are getting kept alive arbitrarily by central banks, fiscal policy and regulation. The idea that Greece could access a free capital market is laughable. Countries like Spain or Italy would have to pay significantly higher rates. Again, the idea that a bank needs NO own capital when buying a Greek bond (=apparently there is no risk when you buy a Greek government bond) violates every economic logic. It is impossible to justify the current approach of risk weights and it is clearly driven by political (not economical) logic. Governments bonds 0%? residential mortgage loans 50%?. Not a surprise that we see/saw massive bubbles in both asset classes. But even in principle it is a faulty logic to try it. You can evaluate investment in these general categories. It makes no sense.
It's only Greece that is remotely broke. Even Greece could still borrow in the free market, just at very high rates (and with some difficulty). They would then have to decide whether to stop servicing their debt, in which case they would be broke, or find some way of paying it (Again I agree almost impossible if they have to borrow new debt at significantly higher rates to service the old debt). Spain and Italy could borrow anyways, albeit at higher than current rates. I agree that the current system is far from perfect, and agree that these general risk-categories have more to do with politics than economics, and that this has to be addressed.

There are different kind of economic crisis that have very different causes. The government and its attempts to manage the economy is one of the major reasons for many crisis. A good start to minimize their negative consequences, would be to stop creating bubbles. The government played major roles in almost every economic crisis in the last 20 years. Yet for some reason bankers get blamed for everything (not that they don´t deserve a far share of blame; our current finance system itself is out of control; the transaction costs are way too high for its economic contribution, which is primarily possible, because the average joe is an idiot, but that is a completely different discussion).
Generally speaking I am not against splitting investment and consumer banking. It wouldn´t have stopped 08 so, despite that being often claimed.
08 happened because bad collateralised debt obligations were allowed to labeled as good ones on the grounds of their sheer size. Whether to blame the bankers or the politicians for that is a matter of opinion. (In my mind it should have been foreseeable and preventable, and I blame the direct access of the banking industry into the government, hence both). Everything since originated in that original sin, with countries bailing out banks, and those countries now having too high debts (Well it's more complex than that, plenty of countries have structural problems and had them before 2008, but in a world wide sense I believe this to be true, and those structural problems wouldn't have been of interest for another decade or two). Splitting investment from consumer banking would have been a great step in limiting 2008 though. Consumer banks wouldn't have been allowed to invest into these CDO's and investment banks wouldn't have needed to be rescued without their connection to consumer banks. Therefor I think such a split would have prevented 2008 as we came to know it. Better oversight would have definitely prevented the mislabeling of bad CDO'S though.

It is not lax regulation. We are at the point where risk models have to get approved by the regulators. The absurdity in these actions is mind-boggling.
We are also not fecked if we don´t bail them out. That is nonsense. It is only "necessary", because we live in an over-leveraged world economy and politicians are desperate to keep this scheme alive. In a fractional reserve system, the central banks need to act as liquidity provider in crisis for solvent institutes. Everything that goes beyond that just harms us in the long run.
The cost of not bailing them out would be economic catastrophe as long as the banking systems stays in its current state. The banks are dependent on one another and were so exposed to one another before 2008 that it would have brought down our entire financial and economical system had the majority not been bailed out. In fact it was the not bailing out of Lehman Brothers that broke the dam in 2008, and it would have become a lot worse than it did had more banks been allowed to fail.

Again, in principle I agree that it would be better if the financial system were fragmented enough for it not to be necessary, and agree that bail-outs are harmful in the long run, however there's only so much economic pain i'm willing to take (figuratively speaking) before I bend my principles.
 
http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-ecb-policy-coeure-idUKKCN11W1I6

Euro zone faces trap of low growth and low rates: ECB's Coeure

The euro zone risks falling into a trap of low growth and low interest rates unless governments stop relying on the European Central Bank to lift the economy and start playing their part, ECB Executive Board member Benoit Coeure said on Monday.

Coeure said the ECB's ultra loose monetary policy was built on the explicit assumption that others would also provide support and their lack of action raises the prospect that interest rates would stay low for even longer.

"If fiscal and economic policies do not in fact play this role, we risk being trapped in a low growth, low interest rate equilibrium," Coeure said in Rome.

"Moving from interest rates being 'low for long' to being 'low forever' would severely limit the room for maneuvre for conventional monetary policy tools, but even more worryingly, it would threaten the contract between generations as well as risk tearing up our social fabric," Coeure said.


Pointing out the obvious is almost too painful but I still do it: By lowering the interest rates + QE, they crushed any incentives for governments to start unpopular economic reforms. Somehow he seems to be surprised by this. I am also happy that he acknowledges that their monetary policies are “at risk of tearing up our social fabric”. Nice confession, but how about you act on this understanding and revert the course?
 
@Abizzz
I agree with some of your arguments. I´d love to reply too all points, but it would just get too long. I´ll just try to focus on things that are relevant for dott-frank:
I don´t understand how anyone can maintain the idea, that banking regulation is anything but a complete and utter failure. We wouldn´t have major finance/banking crises every few years, if these agencies would help. There is just no evidence, that things would be worse without all these rules. Additionally it is myth, that there was this great period of deregulation. Yes, some regulatory standards were repealed, but others were added. The budget for oversight+regulations and the amount of agencies never decreased.

Following section 38c of the FDIA, which regulated capital requirements pre-dott-frank, the regulatory agencies had the power to require any capital requirement that they deemed necessary. It wasn´t for a lack of power, that they didn´t force banks to hold more capital; it was a lack of understanding of the risk.

Lets take a look at some developments, that might help us to understand if Dott-Frank improved the situation:
1) Almost the entire increase of core capital of American institutes is down to the basel III process, which was implemented (in part) month before Dodd-Frank.
2) From the passing of Dott-Frank the ratio of capital to assets increased about 0.1% (11,1% => 11,2%), which is negligible. Most of that improvement is down to an increase in undivided profits.
3) The ratio of common stocks+pps to assets declined (!!!) from 0,4% to 0,3%. (“skin in the game”).
4) The slight increase of bank capital to risk weighted assets is mostly down to “gaming the system”; banks shifted their investment into assets, that have lower risk weight and I already pointed out that risk-weights are set by politicians who have no interest to look at the underlying risk of these assets. The idea that governments bonds don´t have any default risk makes no sense, while the FED still has to push the MBS security market. The idea that holding these assets makes the system more stable is ludicrous.

So before I digress further: There is no evidence at all that Dott-Frank decreased the risk even the tiniest bit, while there are many many many (unintended) band consequences associated with it. Even I know that the current system is not stable, yet somehow all those great regulatory agencies seem to miss that. The only “upside” for America’s banks is, that the EU banking system is in such a horrible state, that even a turd would shine like a diamond next to it.

The EU banking system will crash and burn sooner or later (well…no…they’ll get bailed out, so no reason to panic:lol:). Obviously Europe also has all these new oversight rules and agencies, which are failing to achieve anything. Their failure to address the issue is so fundamental and all-encompassing, that I don´t even have words for that. It is the ultimate prove that nobody should trust politicians and regulators with these issues. They don´t understand it and follow bad incentives.
The only solution is to demand higher capital ratios and get rid of all the bad legislation that distort the market. Sadly politicians don´t want that, because it would run contrary to their new-Keynesian ideas of high deficits. They can count themselves lucky, that the voters will always ask for more government intervention after each crisis. A cynic would say that they create problems, so someone needs them to solve the mess. Rinse and repeat.

I would like to address your remarks about “too big to fail”, the crisis of 08 or the situation in Europe. I don´t agree with your opinion on these issues, but any useful reply would go beyond the scope of this forum. You clearly know a lot about all these things, so answering with a lazy 2 liner wouldn´t make any sense.


PS: If you don´t believe me, listen to Larry Summers, who is more or less the ultimate insider when it comes to economic policy of the Democratic Party (and consequently dott-frank). He served under Clinton and Obama. He comes to the following conclusion:


(…) Harvard PhD candidate Natasha Sarin and Harvard Professor Lawrence H. Summers challenge a widely-held belief that major financial institutions in the United States and around the world are safer today than they were prior to the crisis because of regulatory changes made in the wake of the Great Recession.

In their paper, which has implications for future financial regulation and supervision and challenges the views of many officials and financial sector leaders who believe the system is safer now, Sarin and Summers examine a variety of market measures of risk—including stock price volatility, option-based estimates of future volatility, beta, credit default swaps, earnings-price ratios, and preferred stock yields.

Using extensive data on the largest financial institutions in the United States (Bank of America, Citigroup, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley, and Wells Fargo) and around the world and mid-sized institutions in the United States, Sarin and Summers find no evidence that markets regard banks as safer today than they were before the crisis, despite large decreases in leverage. In fact, measures of volatility and beta appear to be higher post-crisis than they were pre-crisis. (…)
 
If it walks like Lehman and talks like Lehman....

20160927_DB5_0.jpg
 
DB could sell some of their crown jewels that are still profitable for a couple of billions. That would allow them to get cash, but it also would hurt them in the long run. After agreeing to sell their UK insurance stuff, I also expect that they’ll sell some of their profitable assets and shares in China to give them some breathing-room. So the whole thing could continue for quite some time. Still in the end their books are full of trash and their business model isn´t profitable anymore.

The government still claims, that they won’t bail Deutsche out, but the first newspaper reported, that they get internally ready to interfere when shit hits the fan. Usually I’d expect that the government gives guarantees or takes a share of the company to bail them out. It is reasonable easy to sell this to the electorate and it is a fairly clean way (from the perspective of politicians) to handle the situation. That sad I am not sure that this is viable after lecturing Italy about their banks all year long. The negative political consequences of a bail-out could be quite profound for Europe. Yet at the same time the short-term economic consequences of not doing it would be so gigantic, that they are forced to act. The German banking market is in crisis for quite some time now. The second biggest bank (Commerz) is also financially stricken (just slashed 10% of their employees) and when DB falls, they’ll follow within days. If those two fall, the German banking market would collapse, which probably would start a tidal wave of bank-busts all over Europe. Hard to see that major players like HSBC and credit Suisse wouldn´t start to struggle as well and that would be the point where the crisis would spill over to the USA (JPM/GMS/BoA) and the rest of the world.

So yeah, I think it is safe to say, that the German government will step in at some point, but that will come with huge political costs that are hard to evaluate. They´ll have to decide who to piss off: their European partners or the German electorate (or both). I wouldn’t be surprised if the German government agrees to approve another European stimulus deal to gain the consent of the other European governments.
 
DB could sell some of their crown jewels that are still profitable for a couple of billions. That would allow them to get cash, but it also would hurt them in the long run. After agreeing to sell their UK insurance stuff, I also expect that they’ll sell some of their profitable assets and shares in China to give them some breathing-room. So the whole thing could continue for quite some time. Still in the end their books are full of trash and their business model isn´t profitable anymore.

The government still claims, that they won’t bail Deutsche out, but the first newspaper reported, that they get internally ready to interfere when shit hits the fan. Usually I’d expect that the government gives guarantees or takes a share of the company to bail them out. It is reasonable easy to sell this to the electorate and it is a fairly clean way (from the perspective of politicians) to handle the situation. That sad I am not sure that this is viable after lecturing Italy about their banks all year long. The negative political consequences of a bail-out could be quite profound for Europe. Yet at the same time the short-term economic consequences of not doing it would be so gigantic, that they are forced to act. The German banking market is in crisis for quite some time now. The second biggest bank (Commerz) is also financially stricken (just slashed 10% of their employees) and when DB falls, they’ll follow within days. If those two fall, the German banking market would collapse, which probably would start a tidal wave of bank-busts all over Europe. Hard to see that major players like HSBC and credit Suisse wouldn´t start to struggle as well and that would be the point where the crisis would spill over to the USA (JPM/GMS/BoA) and the rest of the world.

So yeah, I think it is safe to say, that the German government will step in at some point, but that will come with huge political costs that are hard to evaluate. They´ll have to decide who to piss off: their European partners or the German electorate (or both). I wouldn’t be surprised if the German government agrees to approve another European stimulus deal to gain the consent of the other European governments.


I read somewhere that:
1. A big chunk of Greek debt payments are to DB and other German banks
2. The EU bailout money comes mostly from Germany and France
So it ends up being a transfer of public money into private hands.
Fair?
 
I read somewhere that:
1. A big chunk of Greek debt payments are to DB and other German banks
2. The EU bailout money comes mostly from Germany and France
So it ends up being a transfer of public money into private hands.
Fair?

I am not entirely sure that I can follow your argument. Foreign banks (e.g. DB) don’t hold a significant share of Greek government bonds anymore. I think all private investors combined own only about 20% of their debts and only a tiny share of this is owned by European banks (probably about 1-3% in total). I don’t see any meaningful connection between the crisis of the DB and Greece. I don´t think that European/German banks care about what happens to Greece nowadays.
 
So Commerz presented their "restructuring" plan. Their situation seems to be worse than expected. They’ll slash 20% of their workforce till 2020 and won’t pay dividend. That said in general their concept is somewhat reasonable. So if they are somehow able to survive long enough, they might have a future. Their service for SME will be downsized significantly, but you can’t blame them.
 
New record of global debt levels at about $216tn (all sectors combined). That is about 327% of the world-GDP. Developed countries are on average close to 400%. In 2016 it is already up by $10tn, which is also a record. Nothing to see here.

#austerityin2016: make debt great(er) again.

Time to “fix” the economy by issuing more debt. That will certainly help; it must be true, when smart guys like Krugman say it.
 
They'll just get German state funds? Or not as simple as that?

Nah can't see that happen (Yet). They have long term earning problems, and have had for a long time... however the current crisis is pretty much down to their criminal behaviour in the past, and the fines they are facing because of that now. Someone earned a lot of money the last couple of weeks (betting against them), the DOJ will lower its demands soon, and they'll be allowed to mess around a couple more years. If the German taxpayer pays Deutsche Bank fines in the US, Merkel won't need to show up at the next election. (I'm not saying they don't deserve their fines, or deserve less fines, i'm just saying the DOJ won't fine them into bankruptcy).
 
Nah can't see that happen (Yet). They have long term earning problems, and have had for a long time... however the current crisis is pretty much down to their criminal behaviour in the past, and the fines they are facing because of that now. Someone earned a lot of money the last couple of weeks (betting against them), the DOJ will lower its demands soon, and they'll be allowed to mess around a couple more years. If the German taxpayer pays Deutsche Bank fines in the US, Merkel won't need to show up at the next election. (I'm not saying they don't deserve their fines, or deserve less fines, i'm just saying the DOJ won't fine them into bankruptcy).
Noted and generally agree apart from the Merkel election point; it seems she will win regardless of what she does. A German friend of mine says she is ridiculed in parts of Germany re her migrant policy, but the polls I see have her party winning in the polls comfortably.
 
I genuinely think the world economy is built on a house of cards at the moment, furiously kept together at whatever cost, but for how long.

Although I am a #NeverHilary typa guy, I almost want her to win it to see her smug smile be wiped off her face when the inevitable chaos occurs.
 
Noted and generally agree apart from the Merkel election point; it seems she will win regardless of what she does. A German friend of mine says she is ridiculed in parts of Germany re her migrant policy, but the polls I see have her party winning in the polls comfortably.

Yes, possible. She needs to form a coalition though and if she looses too much a SPD-Grüne-Linke coalition becomes possible. So she might "win" the election without winning it... (i.e have the most votes and still be opposition). Although that would require those 3 to have more than 50% combined.
 
Yes, possible. She needs to form a coalition though and if she looses too much a SPD-Grüne-Linke coalition becomes possible. So she might "win" the election without winning it... (i.e have the most votes and still be opposition). Although that would require those 3 to have more than 50% combined.
Thats very strange. Why would people vote for left/far-left parties if they are failed on immigration by the centerist parties. Do you know why this might happen?
 
Thats very strange. Why would people vote for left/far-left parties if they are failed on immigration by the centerist parties. Do you know why this might happen?
Well, in all honesty, it's not very likely. No one will form a coalition with the AFD though (and I fear they'll get somewhere between 10~15%), the FDP would be extremely lucky to make a comeback (and if they'd be around 5%) and the CDU really won't work with Linke (So no CDU-SPD-Linke or CDU-Grüne-Linke possible).

If a left combination wins it would need to be down to CDU people not turning out (and in lesser numbers voting AFD) and past CDU voters voting for Grüne (Which happend in my state, Baden-Württemberg). There's somewhere between 10 and 20% who are really against the immigration policy, they'll vote AFD or not turn up. The AFD won't play a part in the next government though, so her policy practically can't lead to a shift to the right (in government, it might in society :( ).
 
Well, in all honesty, it's not very likely. No one will form a coalition with the AFD though (and I fear they'll get somewhere between 10~15%), the FDP would be extremely lucky to make a comeback (and if they'd be around 5%) and the CDU really won't work with Linke (So no CDU-SPD-Linke or CDU-Grüne-Linke possible).

If a left combination wins it would need to be down to CDU people not turning out (and in lesser numbers voting AFD) and past CDU voters voting for Grüne (Which happend in my state, Baden-Württemberg). There's somewhere between 10 and 20% who are really against the immigration policy, they'll vote AFD or not turn up. The AFD won't play a part in the next government though, so her policy practically can't lead to a shift to the right (in government, it might in society :( ).
Thanks a lot. Had no idea that Merkel was in that much trouble. At this point, she might as well bail out Deutsche. At least it will save everyone else a lot of pain.
 
New record of global debt levels at about $216tn (all sectors combined). That is about 327% of the world-GDP. Developed countries are on average close to 400%. In 2016 it is already up by $10tn, which is also a record. Nothing to see here.

#austerityin2016: make debt great(er) again.

Time to “fix” the economy by issuing more debt. That will certainly help; it must be true, when smart guys like Krugman say it.


This blows my simple mind. How can everyone be up to their eyeballs in debt? Surely all that debt is equally matched by national banks who that money is owed to? Just seems crazy that every government everywhere owes a shit-load of money. As though it's dissapearing into a black hole, rather than just moving around. Which is what I always thought happened. What the feck happened to that $216tn?!?