Has fergie forgotten about the babyface assassin?

mozza said:
One game dont mean he'll always be able to, I dont think he has the strength to play the holding role.
Click to expand...

And it also doesnt mean he would be able to either does it?

I can only recall the one game off the top of my head, but he played that role against one of the top European sides (Champs league finalists...)and played superbly, surely that is evidence enough that he could play there if called upon to do so. I remember people saying Ole couldnt play RW consistently last season.....
 
the key seems to be how the forwards contribute when things arent going their way, van and ole are tidy and composed, when diego is getting a chasing he gets hasty and wasteful. maybe we will lose forlan, who knows.
 
I think SAF is building a team which is all about flexibility the players coming in appear to have the ability to fill a number of roles and even the established players are begining to find they play in different positions than the more rigid play of the past ... Giggs all across frount line or off Fuud, Scholes ( who did not like roll before scoring 20+ goals last season) just behind Ruud, PN midfield instead of full back , Fortune fullback instead of left midfield. Ole fits bill completely he has always done well wherever he has been asked to fill in, even Forlan can do a job w/l . w/r or along side Ruud.The future is looking better and better to me.
 
What if Ruud gets injured?

That's the problem,very well he'll comeback but if someone like Ruud gets injured,we'll be only down to two strikers,one of them is incredibly inconsistent
 
and he's 30 years old, can't expect him to be staying in United for another 6 years right? got to find someone to 'replace' him somehow...
 
Bringing in another striker (young one) is suppose to take the pressure off Ruud in the league, FA Cup and smaller Premier league matches. OLe will always be the number two striker...but i see SAF trying to implement ole on the Rw. Supposedly Saha joins united, If ruud is on the bench then saha will be on the field and ole will be 2nd striker instead of ruud. ruud would then be the 3rd choice...get my drift ? while ole plays RW, and saha starts and saha gets injured then ole will move to the striker role rather then ruud coming on when saf didnt want to. e.g against Aston Villa saf had to put ruud and keane on when he rather prefer to keep them on the bench. This is where the new striker comes into it and ole at the same time. If ole wasnt injured he probably would of been the RW so when forlan got subbed off ole would of been put up front and saf would of put another midfielder on and in the mean time Ruud would of been kept off the bench. When ruud isnt playing he is the 2nd choice striker. with a new striker when saf wants to replace ruud and rest him then he means to do that.

Also Forlan hasnt proven often he can replace ruud or cover for him, when they play together forlan makes too many mistakes and further more reduces the amount of chances Ruud gets, and Forlan when playing on his own doesnt scores too many goals, Ruud scores hat-tricks whilst Forlan struggles to score 1 goal and is lucky if he does.
 
mozza said:
One game dont mean he'll always be able to, I dont think he has the strength to play the holding role.
Click to expand...

I think if we look back at the past, Ole's played quite often there .

Most memorable was when he was lone striker back at the end of 2000 as the other 3 strikers i.e. Cole, Yorke & Sheri, were simultenously unavailable either through injuries or suspension for about 9 matches - Ole scored 6 times during that stretch whereby we only lost once & in fact was recognised as the main reason why United won the EPL in record time as their main rivals, thinking that United would falter because of their 'striker' crisis, became so depressed & demoralised when United in fact pulled further away from the rest, that they gave up the chase & the Title was almost as good as ours by the end of February.

Of course Ole's reward was being dropped by Fergie as soon as the rest recovered/came back from suspension! :(
 
DJH said:
Ole is first option at RW intil Ronaldo can develop further. Kleberson is back up to Scholes.

We only needa new striker if people feel Forlan is not up to the job. We only play with one striker so bringing in a Saha or Viduka would mean Forlan is well fecked for a place and may be forced to leave.
Click to expand...

i'm always confusing you with djs. mind you, you two are completely different people. :lol:

anyways, forlan should chip in with a few goals now and then imo. he's not really that consistent; one minute he gives a scintillating performance, the next he is trashing chances with frightening frivolity. if he is forced to leave it's his fault imo. other people should never take the blame for your leaving the club.

i've spoken too much haven't i?
 
kelvinhole said:
i'm always confusing you with djs. mind you, you two are completely different people. :lol:
Click to expand...

Actually I had the same problem initially! :D

I remember first seeing DJH's comments & wondering to myself : " This DJS is not that bad afterall & can sometimes talk sense... :p
 
kkcbl said:
Actually I had the same problem initially! :D

I remember first seeing DJH's comments & wondering to myself : " This DJS is not that bad afterall & can sometimes talk sense... :p
Click to expand...


:lol:

i almost typed ' not bad for a scouser' or sth like that. nearly goofed up
 
jacqueline said:
and he's 30 years old, can't expect him to be staying in United for another 6 years right? got to find someone to 'replace' him somehow...
Click to expand...

How old was Teddy Sheringham when he left us? 30 is still young, he's got plenty of years in him yet, especially when you look wht type of player he is.

It's not the point. The point is cover for Ruud if he gets a medium-long term layoff with injury. We need a player in a similar mould to Ruud, and Ole, as much as I love him is not from the same mould as Ruud, they are two very different types of player. Don't really think that Saha is the best option either.
 
Alek M said:
consider that the former will take Ole's role as a second striker and possibly the supersub role
Click to expand...

When was the last time Ole really had the "Second Strinker" role?

It's not the point, you need a mix of players that have different qualities. Ole has great qualities, but, for example, scoring 20+ goals season in, season out, have never been of them.
 
WeasteDevil said:
How old was Teddy Sheringham when he left us? 30 is still young, he's got plenty of years in him yet, especially when you look wht type of player he is.

It's not the point. The point is cover for Ruud if he gets a medium-long term layoff with injury. We need a player in a similar mould to Ruud, and Ole, as much as I love him is not from the same mould as Ruud, they are two very different types of player. Don't really think that Saha is the best option either.
Click to expand...


Not many CFs are in his mould. Ruud's brilliant at holding the ball up... he's excellent at linking up with the midfield....and he leads the line as good as any striker I've ever seen. He's got an awesome football brain.... I have no doubts that he's the most complete striker in the world.


If we're talking similar, then Viduka could do a job for us. Saha I agree, he's a decent player... but nothing like Ruud.


Viduka for 5 million would be good business imo.
 
Alek M said:
While you may have a good memory with Ole's performance at RW at the end of last season, keep in mind that he was not playing well at all at the beggining of this season.
Click to expand...

I disagree.

Firstly, Ole wasn't playing badly - he just wasn't being especially flamboyant, or admittedly, playing in such an eye-catching way as last season. Tho shortly before the injury sidelined him, Bryan Robson said that he was doing everything required of him, and was doing it well.

Secondly, he was carrying the knee injury since pre-season, which may (or may not) have been instrumental.

Whether he can return to the side and pick up where he left off (last season in particular) remains to be seen.

It can also be said that RW is still not his natural position, and he's always going to perform better if played regularly up front. Which ain't going to happen.

And incidentally, I'd also prefer to see Viduka than Saha.
 
WeasteDevil said:
When was the last time Ole really had the "Second Strinker" role?

It's not the point, you need a mix of players that have different qualities. Ole has great qualities, but, for example, scoring 20+ goals season in, season out, have never been of them.
Click to expand...

What's a strinker? A striker who is a good link man I presume........

In the two seasons where Ole got regular games up front, he scored goals. Not 20 in his first season admittedly, but he was still leading scorer, and I don't think he played every game. And his next real chance didn't come until season before last when he got 25. And in the 98/99 season, he was actually the leading Prem. scorer based on time on the pitch.

So had he been used as a striker on a more regular basis, I think he'd have scored around 20 a season.
 
Saha has now scored 13 goals I think, in a defensive side with one player to really supply him with any service (Malbronque), thats good in anyones book.

Its a case of whether Fergie wants to gamble or not, really. Viduka is more similar to Ruud, he WILL score goals, no doubt about that. However the advantage with Saha is that he will add everything Viduka does but also pace, so theres a big chance of getting more goals than Viduka, but theres also a much bigger risk of him flopping than Viduka, Saha has been a model of inconsistancy across the years.

So its a case of whether you want to chose the better player, of which it will be hit or miss, or Viduka, the lesser player but almost guarenteed success. If you see what I mean.
 
OGS is 31 next month. Fergie is looking to create a younger team. Also we no longer play with two strikers. Sheringham was a different style of player to OGS.

OGS has probably got a couple more years at OT, but he's not a player who naturally leads a front line. Nor is he a striker who relies on pace, or muscling his way though.

It remains to be seen how effective he can be long term as a midfielder, but the competition is tough now with Ronaldo and Kleberson, and next year with Miller.
 
Travis Bickle said:
OGS is 31 next month. Fergie is looking to create a younger team. Also we no longer play with two strikers. Sheringham was a different style of player to OGS.

OGS has probably got a couple more years at OT, but he's not a player who naturally leads a front line. Nor is he a striker who relies on pace, or muscling his way though.

It remains to be seen how effective he can be long term as a midfielder, but the competition is tough now with Ronaldo and Kleberson, and next year with Miller.
Click to expand...

Agree pretty much with that. I think Ole's role will naturally diminish from now, but I would hope that on the occasions we do use two strikers, he'll get the nod. As yet tho, no-one has performed as well as he did on the RW, but I think Cristiano will grow into that role.
 
Livvie20 said:
What's a strinker? A striker who is a good link man I presume........

In the two seasons where Ole got regular games up front, he scored goals. Not 20 in his first season admittedly, but he was still leading scorer, and I don't think he played every game. And his next real chance didn't come until season before last when he got 25. And in the 98/99 season, he was actually the leading Prem. scorer based on time on the pitch.

So had he been used as a striker on a more regular basis, I think he'd have scored around 20 a season.
Click to expand...

Livvie, he aint Ruud, forget it!

And has he ever scored 20+ in the league? Forget the time on the pitch crap, means nothing.

And anyway, I'm not saying it's important to be able to score 20+ league goals a season, I was just trying to point out that it's one quality in many, and one he does not have.
 
WeasteDevil said:
Livvie, he aint Ruud, forget it!

And has he ever scored 20+ in the league? Forget the time on the pitch crap, means nothing.

And anyway, I'm not saying it's important to be able to score 20+ league goals a season, I was just trying to point out that it's one quality in many, and one he does not have.
Click to expand...

I never said he was Ruud! I just said had he played more, as a striker, he'd have scored more. Obviously, that's only surmising, and can't be proved one way any more than it can the other. Tho I think his history would be in his favour.

And I wouldn't say time on the pitch is crap - it's damned hard to score if you ain't on it.
 
I think the plan would be Ruud up front on his own, and Ole playing right wing as first choice and Ronaldo second. Saha would then play as the only striker in Ruud's place if he's injured or needs to be rested.

Personally I would also rather have Viduka. He's only going to play if Ruud doesn't, so it would be best to get someone similar. Saha is good, but I think we'd be paying over the top for something we don't really need.
 
So Saha would be coming to united juts so he can worm the bench for Ruud? I think that Ole can fill the shoes for Ruud if he gets injured. If we speak about a young striker than what about bellion? In 2,3 years he should be fully developed as a complete striker.
 
WeasteDevil said:
Livvie, he aint Ruud, forget it!

And has he ever scored 20+ in the league? Forget the time on the pitch crap, means nothing.

And anyway, I'm not saying it's important to be able to score 20+ league goals a season, I was just trying to point out that it's one quality in many, and one he does not have.
Click to expand...

Regardless of what the future holds, how many United players prior to Ruud's arrival, had scored 20 or more League goals per season over the last 30 years? :rolleyes:

Ole scored 19 ( 18 in the EPL ) in his debut '96/97 season for United whereby he emerged top scorer ahead of even Cantona even tho' he didn't start the season in United's line-up & didn't play in all their matches! And didn't Ole bring in 25 goals 2 seasons ago ( Albeit EPL plus European goals, which makes it more impressive as European competition in the Champions League is much tougher, don't you think? )

And I'm amazed you're brushing off 'time on the pitch' as crap in assessing a player's ability to score 20 goals in the EPL!

On the other hand, if you look at goals to minutes ratio on the pitch, noone else, bar Ruud, betters Ole in United's history!

Ole has proven himself, time & again in the past, regardless of whether he's played with Cole, Yorke, Sheri, Eric, Ruud or alone, whether he's been in the starting line-up or come on with less than 5 minutes of the game left - he's produced the goods - we should at least appreciate that!
 
Alot of excellent comments have been posted.

Something which has sticked out from this thread is people sayingif Ruud picks up a medium - long term injury (hopefully not) then united should most doubtedly look for a cover player or even mould OLE back into that position...
IMO why not change the formation. Not everyone can play the lone stricker role. Its hard and Ruud makes it easy. Ole is more of a "scholes" position and also has proven to perform well on the RW. Look back when it was that famous partnership of York & Cole. They both played along side each other and the whole lone striker formation only started to arise when Ruud made his entrance into United.

While reading i thought about this and wouldnt changing the current formation of 4-4-1-1 or 4-2-3-1 to 4-3-3 be just as good if Ruud is unable to player rather then also buying a new striker who wouldnt be guaranteed success and cover for RVN. My point is if we scrap away the idea of buying a new cover striker and basically focus on what we currently have i feel we would still be a strong force and the momentum wouldnt change even if Ruud injured himself.

You can think of the combinations for the 4-3-3 formation vecause dont forget when Ruud plays as the lone striker he performs as well as having two other strikers with him.

Rudd on bench so therefore id have Ole RF, Forlan CF, Bellion LF
 
Livvie20 said:
Agree pretty much with that. I think Ole's role will naturally diminish from now, but I would hope that on the occasions we do use two strikers, he'll get the nod. As yet tho, no-one has performed as well as he did on the RW, but I think Cristiano will grow into that role.
Click to expand...

Ronaldo has not been as consistent as OGS in that position, but when he's been at his best he causes more problems for defenses than Ole does. Not suprising as, IMO, Ole is out of position here.


Not sure, but maybe Ole could play the Scholes role if Scholes is injured. Certainly if we are not scoring with one striker, we can go to 442 or 433 to shake things up.

The overall poins is that, not many strikers carry on at the top past 32. Cole, Yorke and Hughes were moved on once they hit 30. Sheringham is a completely different player, as his game is about guile and never relied on any pace.

The exception to that will be at OT today: Shearer. But again he is more muscular than Ole, and is also takes penalties and free kicks.
 
Arvani said:
Rudd on bench so therefore id have Ole RF, Forlan CF, Bellion LF
Click to expand...

I'd try Forlan on the right and leave Ole in the centre - Forlan can be tricksy (my Gollum persona coming out there), and put in good crosses.
 
Irwin said:
I think the plan would be Ruud up front on his own, and Ole playing right wing as first choice and Ronaldo second. Saha would then play as the only striker in Ruud's place if he's injured or needs to be rested.
Click to expand...

Agree with you. Saha can play in place of RVN or off of him as well, which would provide us with options. I think when Ole comes back, he'll be first choice on the right, but obviously he can also play in place of RVN. We've really been short of options with Ole's absence.
 
‘Alek M’ said:
keep in mind that he was not playing well at all at the beggining of this season. I think that Kelbertson can give Ole run for his money at RW, and I wouldn't assign Ole at RW automatically
Click to expand...

that could be down to his injury, he was carrying it throughout the summer. Kleb’s not convinced as a winger, he’s better in the scholesy role.

‘Alek M’ said:
If we speak about a young striker than what about bellion? In 2,3 years he should be fully developed as a complete striker.
Click to expand...

thought of that too. Have a wild dream from time to time, Bellion doing a Henry as he dribbles at pace at defenders and scores… (oops, I must be getting insufficient sleep :p)
But seriously we seem desperate for a short-term solution now. Reflection of the poor planning last summer?

Imo regardless of whether it’s saha/viduka, they’re not the options we’d seriously go after in the summer. More of a stopgap, insurance policy for Ruud (most fans probably hope we won’t see too much of either of them as that probably means a bad injury for Ruud)
Doubt either of them are anywhere in SAF’s longtime plans to build a younger team. Imo there’s insufficient quality in them currently and doubt they’ll improve much at this stage of their career.
 
no preference on Ole’s position. He’ll make an impact whether it’s RW/upfront but very likely he’ll continue on the right. He’s more of a Bex on RW than a dribbler like Ronaldo but he still does the job well.

Tbh rather see Ole on the RW than on the bench again, waiting to cover for Ruud. Leave that to Saha/Viduka (don’t rate either but they’re the only likely options right now :( ).

But if we don’t get a new striker, imo it’s likely that towards the end of games/after a comfortable lead, SAF’ll take off Ruud and put in Fletch/Ronaldo, switching Ole from RW to forward position.
 
kkcbl said:
Ole has proven himself, time & again in the past, regardless of whether he's played with Cole, Yorke, Sheri, Eric, Ruud or alone, whether he's been in the starting line-up or come on with less than 5 minutes of the game left - he's produced the goods - we should at least appreciate that!
Click to expand...

I never said that I didn't appreciate him, yet the point is that he's mainly produced the good playing with a Cole, Yorke, Sheringham, Cantona, or Ruud. Yes, he's done well on his own, but in all honesty, he's not really built for it is he? Playing on your own up front requires a lot more holding of the ball than shooting at goal. IMO Ole's main assets are his positioning, awareness, control, and especially finishing, not strength to hold up the ball with his back to two centre halfs.

As for changing formation, and this is another point, Forlan is ok, but he's no Cole, Yorke, Sheringham, Cantona, or Ruud. Not yet.
 
Solskjaer

Two questions to ask?

* When will solskjaer play his first game after recovering from his injury?

* What position will he play, if as reported that utd are looking for a new striker then where will this leave ole?
(i think he will play the right hand side of midfield)
 
Ruud .10. said:
Two questions to ask?

* When will solskjaer play his first game after recovering from his injury?

* What position will he play, if as reported that utd are looking for a new striker then where will this leave ole?
(i think he will play the right hand side of midfield)
Click to expand...


I think he will be playing a reserve game in about a fortnight from today.
 
Ruud .10. said:
What position will he play, if as reported that utd are looking for a new striker then where will this leave ole?
Click to expand...

He'll still be first choice right winger. Whoever comes in as striker comes in to cover for Ruud, will not be a significant threat to Oles chances.
 
Ole im sure will soon be tested in the Reserve team. If he does come back then his first position SAF would put him in would be RW.

I think ole is great there.
 
I think there's really no question. Right Wing has really been less effective this season. Ronaldo has shown a bit of flash and Kleb & Fletch have looked like they don't really like the place. All the assists are coming either from the left or through the center

We're really waiting for Soljskaer to come back. That should set us just right for our traditional run. A full first team with some really sexy substitutes to throw on.
 
Red-Indian said:
I think there's really no question. Right Wing has really been less effective this season. Ronaldo has shown a bit of flash and Kleb & Fletch have looked like they don't really like the place. All the assists are coming either from the left or through the center

We're really waiting for Soljskaer to come back. That should set us just right for our traditional run. A full first team with some really sexy substitutes to throw on.
Click to expand...


Agred - need that combination of pace, crossing and finishing ability that Ole supplied last season - but great that we'll be able to shift formations and posiitons amongst Giggs, Fletcher, ronaldo, Kleb and Ole - will make it very hard for other teams to plan how to play against us.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.