Has political correctness actually gone mad?

villain said:
You implied that everyone is wasting their time complaining about Apu (I don’t think anyone in here was, but still) and that that time could be better spent on defending minorities, right?
So by your logic, you could also defend minorities rather than complaining about the people who are complaining about Apu, too, right?

If you think the problem with Apu does more harm than good, for minorities, while actively not doing anything for minorities then I have to question exactly what you expect minorities to do? Or how your position helps anyone, except your own insistence that minorities should just accept it, because it’s better than being outwardly called a slur, or whatever you’ve decided is the ‘right’ battle that minorities should engage in.

You want us to accept stereotypes, fight ‘genuine persecution’ and not do anything that could dare ‘add fuel to the flame’ for the type of people who insist minorities should pick their battles, while actively not helping those same minorities fight those battles because they insist they are not a defender of minorities.
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I don't think there's anything to complain about full stop. I outright think it's incorrect that Apu should be complained about, I think he's a pretty light hearted stereotype in a show full of them. What you or I do with our time is entirely our business, I don't think posting on a football forum full stop is the best use of anybody's time, but most people don't spend 100% of their life being productive. If people choose to rally against characters like Apu with their time then that is their choice, but I'm also going to say that I don't think those sort of campaigns are a good idea.

Minorities should accept that like everybody in life, they are going to be the targets of comedy. Nobody is immune to this, nobody has a special right to be protected. Everybody can be laughed at, just like all the different people from all the different backgrounds on the Simpsons are mocked. I do think that minority groups need more and better representation so that characters like Apu aren't their sole representation in the media, but I don't think that means that Apu should have been straight up removed.

What exactly do you want me to do to defend minorities? If I believed there was a genuine case of people's civil rights being infringed upon in my country, I would help act against that. Beyond that there is very little that I, with my non-existent influence or power, can actually do.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
I'm watching the documentary .. he makes some points, but at times it just comes across that he's expecting way too much from a Simpsons character. He talks about how the character simply doesn't represent the struggle of Indian immigrants to America, but I honestly don't know what he wants?

99% of characters on the Simpsons aren't accurate representations of real life people, they're just lazy funny characters. He's simply watching the wrong show if he expected his particular minority to be represented in a nuanced and accurate manner. A really intelligent, hard working Indian character just wouldn't be funny to people on the show.

It's weird because he's annoyed that they straight up removed the character rather than working on it. Is he really surprised? Like I've said time and time again, characters on the simpsons are mostly there for cheap laughs, so if they had to rework a character to create the kind of one he wants .. it just wouldn't be funny.

Just like if they had to rework Willie to make him an accurate representation of Scottish Americans, nobody would laugh. Or if Barnie was an accurate showing of the struggle that alcoholics go through.

It's a cartoon..
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You watched the same documentary as me, and that's what you took from it?
 
afrocentricity said:
You watched the same documentary as me, and that's what you took from it?
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I'm halfway through, that was just me addressing one of the points made. I think he makes a very solid point about Apu being the sole representation of his community in the media at the time, and I can understand why that would have been difficult for Indian Americans growing up.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
I'm halfway through, that was just me addressing one of the points made. I think he makes a very solid point about Apu being the sole representation of his community in the media at the time, and I can understand why that would have been difficult for Indian Americans growing up.
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Ok fair enough then. There's more...
 
afrocentricity said:
Ok fair enough then. There's more...
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I'll definitely watch it all of the way through, it's been interesting thus far, even if I don't agree with everything he's saying. I found the contrast between him/his parents attitude quite funny, with them clearly not really considering it much of an issue but it obviously being something which has really bothered him.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
I'll definitely watch it all of the way through, it's been interesting thus far, even if I don't agree with everything he's saying. I found the contrast between him/his parents attitude quite funny, with them clearly not really considering it much of an issue but it obviously being something which has really bothered him.
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They didn't like it if I recall correctly, but were of the 'what can you do?' mindset. Correct me if I'm wrong as you've seen it more recently than me...

Just asked the missus and she says the mum was ambivalent...
 
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711 said:
They take the piss out of religion quite a lot don't they? Lots of scenes of the reverend in church and Flanders bringing up his kids in a ludicrous manner. I see what you mean about wasp characters though, they could probably do with one or two. They do get stuck into capitalism and mega-corporations quite a bit, and possibly Fox news as well, although not being American I may be misunderstanding that.
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That's fair though I might phrase it as it always came off to me much gentler and not really as stereotyping the worst qualities in the same way. I only watched occasionally so I'm no expert myself.

On a related tangent, I watched Colbert's Our Cartoon President and while it makes fun of Trump its tone makes Trump a lovable guy to hate if that makes sense. It certainly doesn't go nearly as critical as I was hoping either.
 
I watched the documentary a while back and it's pretty standard, the only odd moment was when he compared Apu to the racists black stereotypes of the 1950's which was massively taking the piss and completely stupid.
 
afrocentricity said:
They didn't like it if I recall correctly, but were of the 'what can you do?' mindset. Correct me if I'm wrong as you've seen it more recently than me...
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They did say it offended them but to me it didn't seem like it was to a great extent, the mother even said that the actor did a good job. They also said that they felt the son was more bothered by it because he feels like an American and has 'security', and because of that sense of belonging he feels he deserves better representation. Whereas they upon arriving obviously had greater concerns.

The parents attitude overall to me seemed more like 'Meh, yeah we don't relate and he's a bit offensive, but whatever'.
 
Sweet Square said:
I watched the documentary a while back and it's pretty standard, the only odd moment was when he compared Apu to the racists black stereotypes of the 1950's which was massively taking the piss and completely stupid.
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Yea he says Apu's a minstrel. I guess it depends on the point he's trying to make. It's clearly not the same as a guy dancing around in blackface. But going by the story of his creation, it's a white guy pretending to be Asian while taking the piss and trying to be offensive. According to Azaria's account of events anyway.

I didn't want to bring it up yet as I wanted to see @SquishyMcSquish's take on it but oh well... Spoiler!

SquishyMcSquish said:
They did say it offended them but to me it didn't seem like it was to a great extent, the mother even said that the actor did a good job. They also said that they felt the son was more bothered by it because he feels like an American and has 'security', and because of that sense of belonging he feels he deserves better representation. Whereas they upon arriving obviously had greater concerns.

The parents attitude overall to me seemed more like 'Meh, yeah we don't relate and he's a bit offensive, but whatever'.
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I can't remember but it lines up with the missus recollection....
 
afrocentricity said:
Yea he says Apu's a minstrel. I guess it depends on the point he's trying to make. It's clearly not the same as a guy dancing around in blackface. But going by the story of his creation, it's a white guy pretending to be Asian while taking the piss and trying to be offensive. According to Azaria's account of events anyway.

I didn't want to bring it up yet as I wanted to see @SquishyMcSquish's take on it but oh well... Spoiler!


I can't remember but it lines up with the missus recollection....
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I've left it on pause while I eat dinner, they had started to discuss minstrels which .. having never really seen much footage of that stuff, just wow.

Oh, and I just wanted to apologise to you and anybody else I might have thrown the SJW tag at last night. That was incredibly lazy and added nothing to the debate whatsoever, I was in a bit of a poor mood and got lazy and silly. No excuse though, of course.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
I don't think there's anything to complain about full stop. I outright think it's incorrect that Apu should be complained about, I think he's a pretty light hearted stereotype in a show full of them. What you or I do with our time is entirely our business, I don't think posting on a football forum full stop is the best use of anybody's time, but most people don't spend 100% of their life being productive. If people choose to rally against characters like Apu with their time then that is their choice, but I'm also going to say that I don't think those sort of campaigns are a good idea.

Minorities should accept that like everybody in life, they are going to be the targets of comedy. Nobody is immune to this, nobody has a special right to be protected. Everybody can be laughed at, just like all the different people from all the different backgrounds on the Simpsons are mocked. I do think that minority groups need more and better representation so that characters like Apu aren't their sole representation in the media, but I don't think that means that Apu should have been straight up removed.

What exactly do you want me to do to defend minorities? If I believed there was a genuine case of people's civil rights being infringed upon in my country, I would help act against that. Beyond that there is very little that I, with my non-existent influence or power, can actually do.
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I’m just highlighting that you’re doing the same thing that you’re complaining about, just on the flip side.

Also this argument that people are somehow convinced into supporting extremism because minorities dare speak up about their feelings, and in response the minorities are doing themselves more harm than good - is ridiculous.
Those people have always felt that way, but their feelings were centered, a focus on minorities takes that away, so for once they feel forgotten - and that’s what pushes them towards extremism, because for once their perspective isn’t the only one that matters.

As far as I’m concerned, I hope they continue to show their true colours.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
Oh, and I just wanted to apologise to you and anybody else I might have thrown the SJW tag at last night. That was incredibly lazy and added nothing to the debate whatsoever, I was in a bit of a poor mood and got lazy and silly. No excuse though, of course.
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Well it offended me so tbh I'm going to see if I can get you removed from the cafe. Don't worry about it.
 
Vato said:
Give it time, bro.
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I don't doubt it. Point is that the entire cast of The Simpsons is stereotypes. This suits the medium of animation very well. For example, the size of Mickey Mouse's ears, Donald Duck's exaggerated crazy voice, Ike Brofloski's split head, etc
 


there's a lot of "business owner" and "legal migrant" posts on this hashtag with reactionaries trying to gymnastic their way to making apu a model citizen we should respect or something
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
Most Simpsons characters are lazy comedy, there's some great writing in there (aside from the recent series..) but the characters are hardly well rounded. Pretty much everybody is an example of a stereotype and designed to generate cheap laughs.

Not everything in comedy has to be clever, sometimes it can just be light hearted fun. I think somebody mentioned Manuel from Fawlty Towers earlier, a pretty nailed on example of a stereotype .. and it was funny to a lot of people. I don't think people are watching the likes of the Simpsons, Family Guy or South Park for their intellectually stimulating content. It's cheap laughs.

I found Apu pretty funny, so did a lot of people I'd guess. I also completely disagree that he was a 'tedious character' @Halftrack .. I actually thought he was pretty good and represented as being a genuinely good, family guy, and I enjoyed his episodes. I've even seen plenty of people from India coming out and saying they found the character funny and don't understand the backlash.

I just hope this isn't a sign of the future of comedy, I think this is what a lot of people are worried about. At what point do the likes of South Park also start coming under siege from those who see themselves as being the comedy crusaders?
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Are you actually going to miss him being in the Simpsons when you watch it though?
 
Oh apparently they're not even actually getting rid of Apu and once again we might be arguing over nothing.
 
Dwazza said:
I don't doubt it. Point is that the entire cast of The Simpsons is stereotypes. This suits the medium of animation very well. For example, the size of Mickey Mouse's ears, Donald Duck's exaggerated crazy voice, Ike Brofloski's split head, etc
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1980s stereotypes though. Its why the show seems so dated. They really should have just retired the show and come up with something new. Its why pretty much every other comedy show is more relevant. Bart Simpson is a 30-year old skateboarding 10 year old ffs you know?
 
The Simpsons is shit, has been shit for a decade and does not deserve this level of furore.

If it were a mainstream post-watershed show like Family Guy or South Park facing this sort of nonsense it would be far more interesting.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
I found Apu pretty funny, so did a lot of people I'd guess. I also completely disagree that he was a 'tedious character' @Halftrack .. I actually thought he was pretty good and represented as being a genuinely good, family guy, and I enjoyed his episodes. I've even seen plenty of people from India coming out and saying they found the character funny and don't understand the backlash.
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Fair enough. To me, he was a character that worked better in small doses. Like the Janitor on Scrubs. Start focusing on him too much, and he becomes annoying (to me).
hobbers said:
The Simpsons is shit, has been shit for a decade and does not deserve this level of furore.

If it were a mainstream post-watershed show like Family Guy or South Park facing this sort of nonsense it would be far more interesting.
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Family Guy and South Park are aimed at more mature audiences, and are given a bit more leeway when it comes to playing around with stereotypes. I guess they've both attracted some controversy, but it usually dies down because the show is meant for people that are (or at least should be) smart enough to understand that you shouldn't try to emulate Cartman or Peter.

That being said, people who are huge fans of these shows are completely insufferable. They're the kind of people who are mad that they can't call people faggots.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
:lol:

Oh my god you're perfect. I can't tell if this is ironic or not.

I'm genuinely surprised you didn't insert an apology for being white and for your ancestors crimes.
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Why would it be ironic and why would he consider apologising for being white if it wasn't? Odd statement.

As for the apology thing there is a huge difference between a nation apologising for past actions e.g. Japan for actions in WW2 or Australia for the stolen generation and someone personally taking personal responsibility for historic events (which is a silly straw man at best).
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
Haven't seen any of the bold myself. And again the most "snowflake" protected character is the American WASP. Imagine if the Simpsons actually had a character mocking the midwest, ignorant American WASP stereotype and making fun of the protestant religion on a regular basis? The Fox News crowd would have gone berserk years ago. Actually that's probably why the Simpsons never had a character like that - they were a Fox show so its okay to make fun of Scots, Italians, rich guys but never, ever okay to make fun of the ignorant Anglo-Saxon Protestant
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Yes, it would be great if they could, let's make up a random example, give the Simpsons an annoying, over-religious neighbour with stupid catchphrases who would be a staple at the local protestant church, and we could laugh at his ridiculous beliefs and how he has brainwashed his poor kids into believing how everything in the Bible should be taken literally. Then there could be a reverend at the local protestant church who would hold the most boring sermons in the universe and would be intolerant to gays and evolution, that would have been really funny. Then they could make Homer have the best day of his life due to skipping church, and even God would agree that going to church is kinda pointless. Too bad nothing like that could ever happen in the Simpsons, a show where only other nationalities and rich people can be mocked.
 
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