Definitely.
Has political correctness actually gone mad?
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Labels carry preconceived notions and ideas that are removed from what the label carrier means. The word feminist has a defined meaning in the dictionary yet it means something different to ignorant that's which is why some people don't like using the label.
I myself very much believe in jihad and want everyone to strive towards it, I would call myself a jihadist, yet ky understanding of the term is very very much different to the understanding of the term that Joe bloggs might have, so instead of using the term jihadist I would rather communicate my ideas without using the term because then the reciever might entertain my ideas instead if thinking "hmm jihadi... This muzzie psycho wants to blow himself up".
I know wage gap stuff has been done to death on CE, but if you want a concrete example from the BBC's weekly dose of pay gap irrelevance you linked:
The former might say that there isn't a wage gap, there's a largely innocuous earnings gap.
The latter might say that there's a wage gap something something patriarchy something something victimised and they're clocking off 3 hours early in protest because of all the poor women out there taking home 70p in the pound.
Except Infordin obviously.
People aren't buying the claim that feminism is about equality, because their actions show the contrary.
For instance, in Canada, the largest feminist group voted against equal child custody rights, because the mother must be the priority.
You can prance and claim that feminism is all about equality, but if your actions speak otherwise, people will catch on soon enough.
Yes, this thread is derailed enough but that is hardly a definitive study I linked to. I was just trying to demonstrate that linking to isolated articles is easy and doesn't hugely help make points.
There is plenty of evidence that a gender pay gap exists, and representation of women at senior level in companies is poor especially in certain industries.
Happy to take this up in another thread if you're really bored.
At least you're not even pretending you're about equality.
What? Please elaborate.
That's not a counter argument
Largely due to the presence of people like yourself I'd imagine. People would rather not identify as something that makes them targets of people with prejudice in place of empathy.
To be utterly clear, you disagree with feminism. Therefore you do not agree with equality. This is supported by phrases such as: "People aren't buying the claim that feminism is about equality, because their actions show the contrary.". Feminism is, and I'll say this for the last time, literally defined as equality of the sexes.
Unless, of course, what you mean is something more nuanced. You know, something like some people who describe themselves as feminists can act like bellends rather than associating an entirely uncontroversial position with the actions of very particular groups in very particular situations. It seems to me you are deliberately representing feminism at the most extreme end of the continuum which I would argue is unhelpful at best if you believe equality between the sexes is a valid goal.
sir you need to watch more youtube compilation of ben shapiro destroying feminists
It's about as effective as a counter argument as your point was as an initial argument. It also has the plus side of being funny. That was where you wanted to use the annoying laughing face emoji.
And I'll say this for the last time: I judge groups by their actions, not by their words.
I could make an egalitarian movement tomorrow, but my movement would only support the interest of certain people, and then claim that anyone who doesn't support my movement does not agree with equality.
Same concept.
It isn't the same concept. You're completely missing my point.
If you created an egalitarian movement and it actively chose to act in an un-egalitarian manner it would no longer be egalitarian and also it's existence would not change the meaning of the word egalitarian. I would not, due to the actions of Infordin's Un-Egalitarian Egalitarian Movement suddenly find myself declaring that the concept of being egalitarian was therefore something I disagreed with.
Because the right wing media which dominates radio by a huge amount, local television and the Youtube algorithm people have been consistently pushing the narrative that feminists are evil man haters for two decades.
And radio is quite effective at this. The average Americans spend about 300 hours in the car per year.
I can't go driving in Los Angeles and turn on the radio without hearing people like Rush, Hannity, Praeger, Medved, several evangelical preachers, several pairs of local hosts like John and Ken constantly make fun feminist and disparage them.
The best was when KABC (one of those allegedly "liberal media") decide to hire new hosts some unknown far-right from Breitbart and that Ben Shapiro. And KABC are advertising these purveyors of far right views as friendly mainstream hosts
Combine this with how the Koch own a huge chunk of local television and subtly influence views and there are huge chunks of the population even in blue states that are inundated day after day for hours with messages about how evil feminists are trying to destroy western culture along with those Marxists. Its just a myth that "media is liberal in America".
So of course when a BS poll is designed to confuse people not actually measure what people think.
What if the biggest egalitarian group in your country, who have political influence and power, actively chose to act in an un-egalitarian manner, would you still identify as an egalitarian? Or would you admit that the movement has been ruined?
it's true this is why I was against the abolition of slavery, the real racist are the people only thinking about one group of people
YouTube is definitely not right wing, no chance. I can't comment on local television and radio, because we probably live in different places.
yes that's why I don't understand when people call this place libcafe, would we be allowed to speak if the mods were liberal?
I would disagree with that group, not the concept of egalitarianism. So, no, to be precise I wouldn't agree that the concept of feminism is ruined by the actions of a particular political group in a particular country, because if I did I'd be saying that I believe that the concept of equality between sexes was a thing I didn't agree with and that, somehow, that particular group owned the concept.
I mean all people on the right that constantly game the Youtube algorithm so all I have to do is watch this Andrew Yang video once and I get spammed with suggestions for Ben Shapiro DESTROYING, Molyneux, SoSadd of Argon or whatever for weeks after.
Combine that with how the right wing dominates radio and local television and the most people are constantly being bombarded with people talking about awful feminists are. I mean I get bombarded with these right wing media despite living in solid blue California not seeking it but simply sampling all available radio and local TV.
So im guessing your saying that feminism has changed to being advocating for womens right for the dominance of women over men? As opposed to the dictionary definition of advocating for womens rights on the grounds of equality of the sexes. I dont really understand why you dont just write that?
tldr: feminism has a PR issue because the loudest self-identifying feminists tend to appear either deceitful or utterly detached from reality when presenting their politics. Wage vs earnings gap being the most obvious example but there are a myriad more.
Which is why we have nonsense media coverage about mansplaining and manspreading, or about why the patriarchy are conspiring to snatch away 30p in the pound from working women. Unfortunately this brand of nonsense sells more clicks than the actual issues and solutions: like how do we go about encouraging more young women to choose to study in STEM, or how do we encourage more women to choose to be more assertive and ambitious in their career aspirations.
Which is why we have nonsense media coverage about mansplaining and manspreading, or about why the patriarchy are conspiring to snatch away 30p in the pound from working women. Unfortunately this brand of nonsense sells more clicks than the actual issues and solutions: like how do we go about encouraging more young women to choose to study in STEM, or how do we encourage more women to choose to be more assertive and ambitious in their career aspirations.
This debate has reached a circular end. We both understand each other's point of view, but we just disagree.
Let's just leave it at that.
Sure, which is that you don't believe in equality of the sexes as I previously stated.
I certainly agree to disagree with you on that point.
No mate, I don't believe that. I'm pretty left of centre and watch videos of that political leaning, my kids watch the usual nursery rhyme stuff yet I constantly get recommendations for far right shite like edl and identity stuff.
I was thinking that earlier. Disproved his own claim unintentionally. Whoops.
I think the destruction of religion in the developed world totally passed me by.
You were probably too busy watching cat videos to notice.
Burger King forced to withdraw ad showing "Western man" trying to eat new Vietnamese burger with giant chopsticks.
Am I doing this right?
Am I doing this right?
This is what I don't get. Companies should have the bollocks to tell people to piss off once in a while. It's like 3 people on twitter, they shouldn't cower in the face of that when 99.9% of people could not give less of a shit if they tried.
Is it really just 3 people on twitter? You’ve got the moaning tweets, then all the retweets, then every person who reads any tweet/retweet. I’d say the numbers exposed to the moaning escalate quite quickly. And that’s before assorted clickbait news websites give the outrage even more exposure.
Plus there’s always the possibility that the company deliberately fan the flames themselves. Bad publicity is better than no publicity and all that.
Really? So what's the big deal then?
My point is that they’re not representative of the mainstream at all. It’s a very small minority being treated like they have any sort of power.
Exactly, there isn’t one.
I'm convinced companies do this on purpose, knowing a backlash/reaction will spread their campaign much further than any regular advertising would do. The chances of me knowing that BK are doing a Vietnamese burger today were minimal. Now I'm aware of it because of the reaction. It's good for them, as its harmless enough 'bad' publicity, not something that is going to lose them any customers, as people who are inclined to get offended by it probably don't eat at places like BK or McDs anyway.
Fecks this guy on about?
Watched too much Peterson and thinks 4chaners don't live in a bubble compared to the rest of us.
Speaking of chopsticks, why cant chopsticks users just admit that cutlery is a superior tool and switch over. I mean, it's a bit like a pre-wheel car manufacturer insisting on keeping the design with square blocks instead of wheels. Swing and a miss, just give up.