Hating Lingard

vi1lain said:
But last season weren't we all clamouring for Lingard to not play consistently and be a squad player?

Now he's doing that, and people are judging him as if he should be a starter.

I'm also interested in finding these squad players who are consistently able to provide even though they play 20/30 mins here and there, and start 15-20% of matches a team plays.
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Typo by me, I meant constantly or pretty often, not consistently. Meaning we would have to give him a lot of game time for him to become the player Pogue thinks he might become. And I just don't see the talent there to warrant such an investment in playing time by us. A club as MUFC should rather find a Martial\Rashford\Sane level talent for the RW and let him have the game time to develop.

Lingard is perfectly fine as a squaddie, he won't ever be anything more.
 
SwansonsTache said:
Typo by me, I meant constantly or pretty often, not consistently. Meaning we would have to give him a lot of game time for him to become the player Pogue thinks he might become. And I just don't see the talent there to warrant such an investment in playing time by us. A club as MUFC should rather find a Martial\Rashford\Sane level talent for the RW and let him have the game time to develop.

Lingard is perfectly fine as a squaddie, he won't ever be anything more.
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The crux of the issue for me is that there's absolutely no expectation when it comes to his performances. If he plays well it's considered a bonus and such a rare occurrence that it warrants its own thread. If he plays badly then we're 'haters' for pointing it out. Just like Welbeck and Cleverley before him I fear there's never going to be a point where people are allowed to expect anything from him.

If you appear as often for United as he does and it's such a notable event when you play well, then that in itself is telling, IMO.
 
I certainly don't hate Lingard; there are very few United players I've ever hated - Michael Owen and Peter Davenport come to mind. Lingard was outstanding last night, it's just my humble opinion he is not Manchester United class. We want/need the very best we can get, as befits a club of our stature. Lingard to me is a Stoke/West Ham/West Brom player. Ask yourself this, would he get a game for City, Chelsea, Real Madrid, Juventus, for example? I don't think he would, so why is he deemed good enough for Manchester United?

He's a good pro who on his day can be very good e.g. last night, but is he the answer in a United team? Not for me; we need an upgrade, in order to be back at the very highest level, though Lingard isn't the only one that applies to. All about opinions and all that, and there's mine.
 
Salus Populi Suprema Lex said:
I certainly don't hate Lingard; there are very few United players I've ever hated - Michael Owen and Peter Davenport come to mind. Lingard was outstanding last night, it's just my humble opinion he is not Manchester United class. We want/need the very best we can get, as befits a club of our stature. Lingard to me is a Stoke/West Ham/West Brom player. Ask yourself this, would he get a game for City, Chelsea, Real Madrid, Juventus, for example? I don't think he would, so why is he deemed good enough for Manchester United?

He's a good pro who on his day can be very good e.g. last night, but is he the answer in a United team? Not for me; we need an upgrade, in order to be back at the very highest level, though Lingard isn't the only one that applies to. All about opinions and all that, and there's mine.
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Lucas Vasquez gets games for Madrid. Difference is that they have Ronaldo, Bale, Isco and Asensio producing ahead of him in attacking positions. Our issue is Mata and Mkhi not producing, not Lingard's role as a squad player.
 
Lawman said:
Stonking game? He was stone average and scored a great solo goal. Let’s just be honest just like Mykytarin goals or assists doesn’t mask over shite performances.
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Stone average ?

Only one player, Juan Mata with eight(v Burnley 2016) has created more chances in a match than Jesse's six against Watford yesterday in the last three season for United, if thats Jesse being stone average long may that continue.....
 
AR87 said:
Lucas Vasquez gets games for Madrid. Difference is that they have Ronaldo, Bale, Isco and Asensio producing ahead of him in attacking positions. Our issue is Mata and Mkhi not producing, not Lingard's role as a squad player.
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But he also just got a new contract over £100K per week. Don't you think that money could be put to better use? Squad player - I could live with that I suppose, but for me it would mean bit part player. If we could move him on and upgrade, I'd be happier.
 
Oscie said:
These whole "Ahhhh, see!!!" conversations whenever a player has played well as if the performance somehow negates every opinion and performance prior to that date are easily the worst type of football discussion. People's opinion that Lingard isn't a particularly good player is formed around his scores of performances. The idea that somehow everyone who comes to that view is a 'hater' seems to only come to fruition after games where he's played well.

The "but he just scored so you're talking crap" methodolgy.
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This thread of support was made BEFORE the Watford game.
It was in response to posts in threads which were OTT criticism and pure bs from some posters, giving the impression that they had formed a hatred for him.

This is not a thread aimed at those who can give a constructive criticism because generally those same people can acknowledge when he has a good game.
 
redflair said:
When Glenn Hoddle claimed Andy Cole needed five chances to score a goal, it was obviously an idiotic thing to say about a player who was, in the main, a magnificent for us and a key part of our success.

But to switch this terminology around a bit, I feel Lingard is Mr Five Balls right now in that he simply can't get any consistency with his first, second, third or perhaps even fourth phases of play. He might on the fifth - or he might on the first - but this is where his game needs to step up. An attacking player must have precision, patience and continuity to ensure his side keeps the pressure on as it builds up moves, waits, and tries to find that final pass or shot that will make the difference.

Jesse doesn't have that yet - and the ratio of wastefulness to meaningful contribution is too skewed to the latter.

That said he does have goalscoring ability, movement and pace.

Sadly we can't do too much about that extremely important part between the ears.
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When you’re talking about the final ball even the legend that is Ryan Giggs had that criticism leveled at him
 
Class of 63 said:
Stone average ?

Only one player, Juan Mata with eight(v Burnley 2016) has created more chances in a match than Jesse's six against Watford yesterday in the last three season for United, if thats Jesse being stone average long may that continue.....
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Interesting stat, didn’t know that. Thanks.
Would like to see him continue in the #10 role for a few matches. Neither mata or Miki bring pace or the same level of movement on current form.
 
Oscie said:
The crux of the issue for me is that there's absolutely no expectation when it comes to his performances. If he plays well it's considered a bonus and such a rare occurrence that it warrants its own thread. If he plays badly then we're 'haters' for pointing it out. Just like Welbeck and Cleverley before him I fear there's never going to be a point where people are allowed to expect anything from him.

If you appear as often for United as he does and it's such a notable event when you play well, then that in itself is telling, IMO.
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Aggghh ffs will you people read! This thread was created BEFORE the match against Watford. I’ve said it a few times in this thread.
 
golden_blunder said:
When you’re talking about the final ball even the legend that is Ryan Giggs had that criticism leveled at him
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No, it's not the final ball I'm really on about - it's any ball, an easy one, difficult one, one where he should lay it off, one where he should try and dribble and so on.

His ratio of keeping attacks going is not good enough right now - but that doesn't mean he still can't be a valuable player for us.
 
Salus Populi Suprema Lex said:
But he also just got a new contract over £100K per week. Don't you think that money could be put to better use? Squad player - I could live with that I suppose, but for me it would mean bit part player. If we could move him on and upgrade, I'd be happier.
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Lingard's money is insignificant to United and isn't preventing us from signing anybody.

We need to upgrade on Mata and Mkhi who are supposed to be starting XI caliber players. Lingard is living up to expectations as a squad player currently and is happy to be one.
 
AR87 said:
Lingard's money is insignificant to United and isn't preventing us from signing anybody.

We need to upgrade on Mata and Mkhi who are supposed to be starting XI caliber players. Lingard is living up to expectations as a squad player currently and is happy to be one.
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But Mata and Miki, whilst experiencing a dip in form, are undoubtedly better footballers than Lingard. When playing well, they are good enough to wear the United shirt regularly, which I don't think Lingard is. He was great last night at Watford, but would you want him starting against title rivals? I don't think he'd get a sniff at other clubs of our stature. He's a solid pro, IMHO, but no more than that. A squad player, okay, but that had better not mean starting twenty league games a season. We need more at United.
 
Dante said:
Wow, I didn't realise his output was so good for bit-part player. 7 goals/assists in 666 minutes, or a contribution every 95 minutes. For a guy who can't get a proper run in the team, that's excellent. Only Martial (at a contribution every 83 minutes) is doing better. Lingard is ahead of the likes of Lukaku, Rashford and Pogba at the moment. Thanks for the pic!

That's 666 minutes our star players don't need to play, allowing them to be fresher for the big games. And Lingard never complains despite being so good at the role. The perfect squad player!
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This is exactly what squad players are supposed to do...and he does it well.

I like Jesse and if he could get more consistency then he could really be a regular.

Some of the comments on here make me sick...they are either from people who are ten years old...stuck in a FM time warp or support another team and winding us up.
 
He just scored the goal of the century last night so I think it will be hard to find anyone willing to bash on Lingard atm.
 
Salus Populi Suprema Lex said:
But Mata and Miki, whilst experiencing a dip in form, are undoubtedly better footballers than Lingard. When playing well, they are good enough to wear the United shirt regularly, which I don't think Lingard is. He was great last night at Watford, but would you want him starting against title rivals? I don't think he'd get a sniff at other clubs of our stature. He's a solid pro, IMHO, but no more than that. A squad player, okay, but that had better not mean starting twenty league games a season. We need more at United.
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He wouldn't start 20 league games if the guys paid like stars performed as such. This is why the real problem is that those 2 aren't playing up to par and haven't for large portions of the last 2 seasons. At some point it ceases to just be a dip in form.
 
Salus Populi dSuprema Lex said:
But Mata and Miki, whilst experiencing a dip in form, are undoubtedly better footballers than Lingard. When playing well, they are good enough to wear the United shirt regularly, which I don't think Lingard is. He was great last night at Watford, but would you want him starting against title rivals? I don't think he'd get a sniff at other clubs of our stature. He's a solid pro, IMHO, but no more than that. A squad player, okay, but that had better not mean starting twenty league games a season. We need more at United.
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By your logic: When playing well, Lingard is good enough to wear the united shirt too - just like he showed against Watford.
 
Mcking said:
By your logic: When playing well, Lingard is good enough to wear the united shirt too - just like he showed against Watford.
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No, I don't think he is good enough, though he had a very good game last night. It's all very well looking good at Watford, but for me he isn't good enough to be a regular starter at a club like United. I would move him on if the right offer came in. As I said, I personally think he's a decent mid table player but not more than that. He's another Tom Cleverley/Jonny Evans, IMHO.
 
Problem is not in Lingard, it's the players he's coming in for. He's a good squad player to have but we need an upgrade on Mikhi and Mata.
 
golden_blunder said:
Aggghh ffs will you people read! This thread was created BEFORE the match against Watford. I’ve said it a few times in this thread.
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No, it wasn't. It was created DURING the match against Watford. Not BEFORE.

Also, Lingard is an awesome squad player (for Crystal Palace to have).
 
MZX7 said:
No, it wasn't. It was created DURING the match against Watford. Not BEFORE.

Also, Lingard is an awesome squad player (for Crystal Palace to have).
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I started it before the match, I think I know when I created my own fecking thread pal. The match had no bearing on it, however it was a nice bonus that he went on to score a cracker
 
I criticised him last season because he was getting selected over better players, while the better players were getting benched after a bad performance but Lingard was getting selected in spite of bad performances. Maybe I am wrong to criticise him now but he shouldn't be a first 11 player, Mata and Mkhitaryan are better than him but they aren't in form. I don't want Lingard anywhere near the starting 11 when either Mata or Mkhitaryan are in form. I know it's not my money but 100k a week for a squad player is idiotic because other average players (existing or new) too will want to get paid more than what they deserve. I know the last sentence is not a popular opinion but no player is immune to criticism whether he is homegrown or not. And also it doesn't mean that we should support all our players blindly just because they play for Manchester United. Before someone tells me that we can't have 11 superstars in the starting 11, I don't want 11 superstars in the starting 11, I want players who are one level above Lingard. Yes, Lingard works hard I know and there plenty of average players who work hard. We have many of those players in our team. Like Fellaini, Blind, Herrera (has been average this season), Mata and maybe Mkhi too (because of his mentality).
 
http://www.goal.com/en/news/lingard...wants-man-utd-star/1o4z97xz4feg0102lczx7fnmt7 sorry if it's been posted

The feeling I get and my hunch is....people who've seen Lingard up-close rate him very highly. Sir Alex, LVG , JM and I remember Welbeck commenting how a young Jesse Lingard reminded him a bit of Iniesta...after-all this is a player who hit it off with Mourinho from the get go.

Lingard has more talent than is obvious to the eye because he lacks physical strength to apply it fully (explains why it took his mid 20's to break into the team and Sir Alex comparing him to Jean Tigana..huge compliment)

We just need to be patient with him as Guardiola been with the likes of Sterling (see him now). At one point Sterling looked quite useless except for running around.

Thankfully we've had managers who know better than the fans here who continually spew nonsense as far as Jesse Lingard is concerned.
 
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Should probably change the thread title to include Smalling,Shaw,Valencia, Jones,Zlatan basically every player and the manager as somewhere there will be people with opinions that will be labelled as “hating” on a player.
 
People who keep saying he is not 'United quality' are so tiresome. If he is not United quality, he wouldn't have played for Managers like LVG and Mourinho. Simple. He has a role in the team, and he is fulfilling it. Criticize him when he doesn't play well. But why this personal hatred?

He will leave when the manager thinks he is not up to it. Till then, he is our player.
 
golden_blunder said:
I started it before the match, I think I know when I created my own fecking thread pal. The match had no bearing on it, however it was a nice bonus that he went on to score a cracker
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There is a time-stamp on your OP that disagrees with your claim.
 
MZX7 said:
There is a time-stamp on your OP that disagrees with your claim.
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That may be but I know when I conceived the idea and started typing the bloody thing, albeit the match may have got underway by the time I clicked post. Nevertheless the match had no bearing on my thinking. The only thing I took into account was the posting on here, in particular the 2 threads I mention in the OP.
Now, care to tell me where you’re going with this?
 
golden_blunder said:
That may be but I know when I conceived the idea and started typing the bloody thing, albeit the match may have got underway by the time I clicked post. Nevertheless the match had no bearing on my thinking. The only thing I took into account was the posting on here, in particular the 2 threads I mention in the OP.
Now, care to tell me where you’re going with this?
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Just pointing out facts. Generally seems to piss off Lingard fans. Facts. They can't handle it. :)
 
MZX7 said:
Just pointing out facts. Generally seems to piss off Lingard fans. Facts. They can't handle it. :)
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Fact is I’m not really a Lingard fan. I just get irritated by OTT criticism and silly statements like he’s only a championship player
 
I think this thread should be called Rating Lingard not Hating which is crass and demeaning.

Any hate for our players is bewildering, I just can't understand it.

Stone-cold, rational assessments of their performances, however, are a different matter.

He just seems to get less of these than other players, and everything sits between two extremes.

Maybe his 'narrative' has been set now and it's unlikely to ever change, particularly at OT.

More goals like the carve-up at the Vicarage will help.
 
golden_blunder said:
Fact is I’m not really a Lingard fan. I just get irritated by OTT criticism and silly statements like he’s only a championship player
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He's definitely not a Championship player. He's not a United player either.
Glad that's settled.
 
Only thing I "hate" about Lingard is him speaking. Don't understand single word he is saying, except " hmmm". The other day post match with Smashley, I understood Youmg, but Jesse... Gave me a headache and a fear for my underatanding of English language. Spoken one. Ffs, I understand SAF when he talks (took me awhile). Can't he just talk normal?
 
No Idea For Nickname said:
Only thing I "hate" about Lingard is him speaking. Don't understand single word he is saying, except " hmmm". The other day post match with Smashley, I understood Youmg, but Jesse... Gave me a headache and a fear for my underatanding of English language. Spoken one. Ffs, I understand SAF when he talks (took me awhile). Can't he just talk normal?
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You can't criticise our players, you gotta support them whatever happens. What kind of a fan are you criticising your own players, FFS. You shouldn't even criticise the way he speaks. Stop the hate. HASHTAG SAYNOTOLINGARDISM
 
SachinJ22 said:
You can't criticise our players, you gotta support them whatever happens. What kind of a fan are you criticising your own players, FFS. You shouldn't even criticise the way he speaks. Stop the hate. HASHTAG SAYNOTOLINGARDISM
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Sniff..sniff.. Not critisizing, just saying. Maybe he speaks too quiet..meh... Btw, wth is lingardism?
 
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