I'm really trying to like this but each episode makes it harder (twss).
Feels like PepsiMax version of GoT.
Feels like PepsiMax version of GoT.
Television House of the Dragon (GoT Prequel) - No book spoilers allowed
- Thread starter ha_rooney
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I think it's good to have a place where people can talk about the show without book spoilers and other stuff. Having said that, the thing revealed is probably not a spoiler and may have even softened the blow a bit, idk.
No. During the previous King's reign a certain lucamore strong was caught fathering children. He was gelded by his own brothers in the kingsguard and then sent to the wall. Ryam redywne was one of those KG (ie bald bearded guy whose built like a tank)
That's why Criston Cole asked Alicent for a merciful death
I think that's a fair comparison, GoT has great depth and complexity because it was based on a meticulous book, with many main characters so there's a lot of variety in location and cast. Hot D doesn't have that, and you can tell, it's a little shallow in comparison. But that's okay.
Another feck up from the producers
No they are not. The KG has to adhere to very strict rules. They can't kill whoever they like out of lulz
Yes of course - but my point is that during the chaos, any KG will be thought to be acting on the orders of the royal family because they don't usually go rogue in that manner.
No, but within that chaos, I would imagine you would find it difficult to question them as you don't know the reasons behind it. Would you try to arrest the kings personal guard in the kings presence? Corlys probably wouldn't shed a tear over his son's paramour anyway, could be a blessing in disguise.
My point exactly but articulated better.
Well his son shed a few fecking tears. The same son who got a slap off that particular king’s guard. It just seems completely implausible that all of this would be ignored by his father.
The chaos was caused by Cole. Also the Knight of kisses had no weapon in hand. I am more inclined to believe that both dragon families were happy to see him dead. Still such farce had placed Rhaenyra at risk which is unforgiving
I prefer GRRM version of events. That makes more sense
The man he murdered was of a noble house as well while Sir Criston is not.
Great show so far and loved last episode but i am also confused how Criston could get away for that. Ruined wedding, kicked future king and killed a guy.
It strikes me the most so far how they created Viserys so weak. Biggest house ever in Westeros and yet, it is total anarchy around his house.
Advisors saying what they want, house lords showing disrespect all the time and at the end you have fight at his wedding and he (and his guard) are doing nothing. Also during Rhaenyra's tour, people are killing each other in front of her. No respect for rulers at all.
Now compare all that with kings and even lords in GoT. Cercei, Robert, Joffrey, Stannis, Stark....nobody did shit around them.
It strikes me the most so far how they created Viserys so weak. Biggest house ever in Westeros and yet, it is total anarchy around his house.
Advisors saying what they want, house lords showing disrespect all the time and at the end you have fight at his wedding and he (and his guard) are doing nothing. Also during Rhaenyra's tour, people are killing each other in front of her. No respect for rulers at all.
Now compare all that with kings and even lords in GoT. Cercei, Robert, Joffrey, Stannis, Stark....nobody did shit around them.
Except for Cercei shagging her brother behind Roberts back and giving him 3 bastard children. Little Finger doing the same to Roberts surrogate father's wife then getting her to kill him. The Spider aiding The Prince Across The Sea. Jaime throwing Ned's son out of a window.
That's all I can think of from episode one of GoT.
Corlys cares a lot more about his son's prospective marriage than his paramour. Presumably this is part of why the marriage was rushed through at the end - Leanor would also be under KG protection from that moment on.
Corlys is also extremely smart - he is unlikely to rush into anything. Just because he doesn't act immediately doesn't mean he's ignoring what happened necessarily.
Agreed that I prefer the way GRRM wrote it. Having the ambiguity over this death and also Rhea Royce's is far more interesting (if not necessarily as easy to portray on film as it is on the page, especially as the show is an objective telling and the book cites unreliable sources).
"Behind" their back is cruical word. Not in front of them.
The only reason it was behind his back was because he paid no mind to being king and spent his entire time in a perpetual drunken stupor.
Selmy Barristan drew his sword at Joffrey and was allowed to walk away whilst throwing his armour down.
This dude killing a 'unknown' lover to most would not be an issue.
especially as it was within chaos where Corlys son was pushed away in one quick action, so who knows if Corlys even saw it at the time (it might be reported back to him later).
Yep. and politically, it wouldnt be wise to move against ser criston at that moment from Corlys either. People sacrifice more than just a few tears of their son in this world to play the game.
Corlys has basically seen to get his bloodline on the throne by getting this marriage done (even with the rush)
This dude killing a 'unknown' lover to most would not be an issue.
especially as it was within chaos where Corlys son was pushed away in one quick action, so who knows if Corlys even saw it at the time (it might be reported back to him later).
Yep. and politically, it wouldnt be wise to move against ser criston at that moment from Corlys either. People sacrifice more than just a few tears of their son in this world to play the game.
Corlys has basically seen to get his bloodline on the throne by getting this marriage done (even with the rush)
He's not an unknown lover. He was Ser Joffrey Lonmouth the son of a noble house from The Stormlands while Ser Criston Cole was a son of a lesser house who had been raised to knighthood for his actions in the Dornish Marches. As he said in an earlier episode he life would have been to marry a common woman as he didn't have enough standing to marry a lady.
Yeah i thought as much when i watched it, turned into a whiny lovestruck teenager. Bro she is the Heir to the realm, she isnt going to marry you..
It was a while when i read the book but if i remember correctly, Joffrey did sent his guards to seize Selmy but he escaped from it (by killing two of them)
The show has gone to great lengths to demonstrate that Viserys is bad at being king, not really in control and that his habit of shying away from making tough decisions and/or changing his mind has alienated a bunch of people and allowed problems to fester and grow. It's also gone to great lengths to make it clear that everyone knows he's frail and that the big players are primarily concerned about being in the right position to take advantage of his death rather than helping him rule. In that context, I don't think the broad events of Episode 5 are too weird. The wedding was too important to both parties to be set aside, and I think any ramifications of the murder will come later. It does seem odd Cole was able to just walk away from it, but I guess the general chaos, his position and the King and Corlys being distracted could account for that.
The things with that scene I'm slightly struggling with are character motivations. I don't really get why Laenor's boyfriend went and wound up Cole, or why Cole felt the need to batter his head in, or what Rhaenyra and Daemon's craic is really. Alicent's motivations seem reasonable, the partial reconciliation she had with Rhaenyra in the last episode was undercut by Rhaenyra not telling her about Cole, which lends credence to her fears that her children will be murdered when the King dies to strengthen Rhaenyra's position.
The things with that scene I'm slightly struggling with are character motivations. I don't really get why Laenor's boyfriend went and wound up Cole, or why Cole felt the need to batter his head in, or what Rhaenyra and Daemon's craic is really. Alicent's motivations seem reasonable, the partial reconciliation she had with Rhaenyra in the last episode was undercut by Rhaenyra not telling her about Cole, which lends credence to her fears that her children will be murdered when the King dies to strengthen Rhaenyra's position.
Piecing together the bits of the story I know because they're referenced in ASOIAF (I've not read any of the other stuff set in this world), I think we're pretty well set-up for the big war of succession. Cole is referenced as the Kingmaker so I assume his rift with Rhaenyra and newfound friendship with Alicent is going to lead him to back Aegon when Viserys dies. Between them, Viserys and Rhaenyra appear to have pissed off and alienated several big players (Daemon by existing, Lannisters by rejecting their proposal, Hightowers by firing Otto and not making Aegon the heir, the Vale by enabling Daemon) so presumably plenty of people willing to back the other side?
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I was not talking about how good rulers were Robert or Viserys (or others). It was just observation how Viserys allows much more than lords and kings in GoT allowed.
I do think that Viserys is more wise ruler than others were in GoT
Wrong.
Beacuse the GoT thread proved that there are massive twunts out there that will happily post spoiliers and ruin plotlines for people that want to just enjoy the episodes as they come. The only approach that works is a zero tolerance policy to spoilers and having a separate spoiler thread.
I thought that the killing of the Knight of Kisses and nothing happening with him being a son of a noble house and Cole being the son of a steward was silly. It's tantamount to a member of the Secret Service killing the son of a senator. I understand that the king wanted the wedding done but there are plenty of guards around to deal with Cole.
Yes he comes across as weak. Allowing his daughters heirs to be named Velaryon was a massive sign of weakness. Allowing the queen to change his mind on The Step Stones was another show of weakness. We have had several examples of how not to rule in the series so far. Most of them led to a period of anarchy.
Feels like people are overstating the importance of House Lonmouth. They're a noble house yes, but definitely a minor one.
Also it's very unlikely that Joffrey was the heir to their castle (which we don't even know the name of from the books) - since it's clear he was spending all his time on Driftmark anyway.
Also it's very unlikely that Joffrey was the heir to their castle (which we don't even know the name of from the books) - since it's clear he was spending all his time on Driftmark anyway.
He's a good man, but had it far easier than the ones in the GoT period. His biggest challenges so far has been the crab people raiding his shores (which he took ages to deal with), and the issue of succession and heir. He's also very easily influenced, so i'm not sure how he would've fared in GoT.
Robert was the heir to house Baratheon and yet he spent all his time in The Vale. Yes house Lonmouth were not Wardens of the Stormlands that's why I said the son of a senator but Ser Criston Cole's dad was a lowly steward of Blackhaven.
That is what i was talking about. Don't forget that he (king, Targaryen) goes on the journey across the whole land to offer HIS daughter (and by that a throne) to his lord.
It should be opposite ffs.
I was going to add the last bit but Robert did similar carting his whole family north to ask Ned to become his hand and marry their families together.
I didn’t interpret Laenor’s boyfriend as being on a wum. I saw it more as a weird sort of attempt at bonding;
“look at us guys, banging the future king and queen and no one has a clue, yay for us!”
I think him being beaten to death was a desperate attempt to keep that secret secret.
He spent his youth there because he was a ward to John Arryn, same as Ned. He didn't treat it as his holiday retreat.
What ever happened to robin? Did he get banned full stop or just from GoT related threads?
I dunno, I think he was overplaying his hand. Literally… it looked like he smacked Cole’s butt on the way out. It was probably just a pat on the shoulder but that’s still something you don’t do to a grown man you’re not family or friends with in a formal setting. It’s a power move, like ‘hey little buddy’.
If somebody did that to me after what I might’ve misinterpreted as a veiled threat because my head was already spinning, my temper would have been redlining. Just trying to put myself in his shoes here, maybe I’m over-analyzing it.
I know. There is no reason to believe that Ser Joffrey Lonmouth wasn't a ward of Driftmark. Or he said he was Laenor's protector so could have been his sworn shield. All that we know was that he was on Driftmark we don't know the reason why.
Surely if he wanted to keep his secret, he shouldn't have revealed it so obviously to the queen?!
Exactly, the truth is out there.
As far as Cole knows, the Queen and the whole court know of him and Rhaenyra after his confession? He's basically just waiting to be gelded/executed at this point, why not smash someones face in on the way, eh.