How can Ole be this bad?

Revan said:
It’s not better than Jose though. Less points per game, two less trophies, worse football, and more money spent.
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Ehhh, I like Ole's football better than Jose. At least he gave us the occasional 5 goal win. Doesn't mean it's ultimately more effective, but Mourinho's football was just as bad, but without those high scoring wins. All the team of individual football criticism aimed at Ole is just as applicable to Mourinho, just with Mourinho being better defensively.

And this is someone who has wanted Ole out since being a caretaker.


Our board and some fans always wait until our managerial options dwindle. It's pathetic.
 
Skills said:
We all know someone who's shit at his/her job. Normally it's because of laziness, lack of focus or just being a bit dim. But Ole doesn't look like he's lazy and you don't have to be a particularly bright individual to manage a football club - I mean most of them are ex-footballers.

How is he genuinely that bad?
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It's the over top calling him shit and hasn't a clue that i don't get. Fair enough folk are angry but now folk talking like he's been our worse manager since Fergie. Laughable.

He clearly does have some sort of clue or it have been a total shitshow last 2 seasons. We've been solid in the league. Something we haven't been In years.



I think he's under massive pressure at the moment. I'm not even sure how we can fix it with the run of games coming up. The team is so weak and fragile of the ball, and he not doing himself any favours with selections etc. Feel like team got too many options now and hes lost his way this season.

as I say not sure how you turn it around with these run of games. He need to go back to what was working year or so ago for him, packing the middle and playing the counter, and dropping some big names.

Sounds simple but can't see how else we can start playing decent again.
 
How? People underestimate what it takes to be a top manager. If it was that easy, anyone could be a top manager, even me. I mean I can look at Pep's Barcelona and tell the lads to go out and have their passing triangles and what not, but I'd have virtually no idea how to implement it to be effective. Top managers like Pep, Klopp, Nagelsmann, Zidane, etc know precisely where each player should be, how they should play, how the formation should work, how the team should work as a team. That's what separates them from people like Ole that have very little understanding of how football should be played. I mean you see the bullshit that he spouts in each press "i don't know what we should do, maybe we need more legs", something of tha tsort. I mean seriously? This is just a joke.
 
I feel like winning in Paris has seen him through 2019, then Bruno saw him through 2020 and there’s been no saviour for him in 2021.

Do the hypothetical ‘swap managers‘ test on every team in the league and I’m fairly sure we’ll get 19 Nos. A good chunk of the league would have taken LVG when we sacked him, and Jose when we sacked him. Even back in 2014 at his worst, I think half of the Premier League teams would have taken Moyes when we sacked him.

I‘d say he’s massively overachieved in his role and he’s been quite fortunate at times (gets lucky at the right moments and any other club would have seen him leave by now a few times), but he's truly hit the ceiling now. In hindsight we should have let him go in the summer and got a better manager in. The way we finished last season was bad and the EL final was particularly awful. I wouldn’t go as far as saying weve wasted 3 years with him, but we should have pulled the trigger this summer.

Hes added more individual magic yet they can’t dig him out which is poetic, and importantly we still regularly play like 11 guys who’ve never seen each other. What the feck are they doing in training?
 
Ole he's not bad at least he outwits Guardiola tactically, problem he plays the same tactics regardless of opponents
 
He’s allowed to be this bad because he speaks to the hearts & traditions of the club. The notion he has the clubs best interest at heart was heavy when he came in & has covered for his inability.

Truth is if he cared about the club first, he’d see there’s some upward momentum but his limitations as a coach aren’t particularly helping. He did well to come in and settle things but you don’t buy Ronaldo & Varane then ask for patience.
 
I was going to start a thread titled “How can our Fans be so thick”.
But then I decided not to.
Meh.
 
Because he couldn't have gotten the job in championship on his own ability. He is as average as they come.
 
Revan said:
It’s not better than Jose though. Less points per game, two less trophies, worse football, and more money spent.
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How many points per game did Jose get (in a much less competitive league with dire performances in the champions league).
Last season we played better football than under Jose. 100%. And then if Dortmund hadn’t been greedy and we struck a deal with Sancho he would already be vetted in this team. The Ronaldo signing I wanted but only under the impression we would sign a DM. Otherwise we always needed a RW and. DM and Cavani and Greenwood were perfectly fine for CF.

It’s just a waste of money signing Ronaldo and not getting a DM. It’s like ordering a burger without the patty
 
Why are you surprised? We took a chance on someone who doesn’t have the requisite resume because he’s a legend at the club and he has a flying start as an interim, not because he is clearly a fit for such a massive job.

It was always more likely that it would go this way, rather than we would have another Pep on our hands. The much more probable outcome did happen, and in fact, I think he’s exceeded the expectations of many (including me)
 
Skills said:
We all know someone who's shit at his/her job. Normally it's because of laziness, lack of focus or just being a bit dim. But Ole doesn't look like he's lazy and you don't have to be a particularly bright individual to manage a football club - I mean most of them are ex-footballers.

How is he genuinely that bad?
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He is favoritist. Ole fecked up today's game because he let Maguire come back to squad too early and didn't have balls to sub Ronaldo. The he brought on McT, who made things worse, but Ole likes him because Scotty will run for him and never disagrees. Ole surrounded himself with inept coaching stuff because they are friends.

There is a trend here. Ole does things that create comfort for him, not things that are ruthlessly oriented at winning
 
Dookingham United said:
There is a massive difference in managing a top team and any team from expected position 5 and below.

Take Benitez, he is a quality coach. With Everton he is expected to finish from 5th to 10th. That means that he can afford to have some silly dropped points during the season, some bad performances, can have some players that aren't quite up to the standard of Everton, some coaches that, similar to the players, might not be up to Everton's standard yet. All that means that from the manager through the coaching staff to each player, they don't need to have that absolutely top top athlete mentality of a true winner.
Now compare Everton to United.
We are expected to win every game, or at the very least to trouble every team. To win silverware. To drop only a few points in the season and to do so playing quality football. That means that our manager has to be the same caliber as Klopp or Guardiola or Tuchel. Our coaching staff needs to be best in class for every area of training. And our players need to be the very very top.


Ole has no pedigree as one of the best managers in the world. He has never managed at a high standard and has won nothing, even though he has some of the best players in the world.
He does not know how to be ruthless in removing players and coaching staff that are clearly not good enough to be at the best team in the world.
He does not know how to affect change in a game with the use of substitutes.
And he does not have the ability to reach the required standard any of these either.

We have all worked in a company where the work gets done well despite the manager being crap, but when you get a whole business that is run by idiots it goes bust.

Mark my words... if the Glazers, Ole and his coaching staff do not leave our club very soon, the future belongs to Liverpool, Chelsea, City and Newcastle.
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Tbh I'd have taken Benitez in a heart beat over Ole. I believe in professionalism and do not believe in patty logic that a player or manager who has played for United or Liverpool cannot play for or manage the other team.
 
Well it seems we made mistake after mistake after Fergie left. Moyes lost the players very fast but we had no choice there as boss himself picked him to be the next manager. LvG should have been better. I am not sure what happened there, but he was in my opinion the right choice. Proven manager, always preached that he needs the whole team of great people etc... etc... It turned out that we played very uninspired football.

Mourinho was total mistake. Should have never been hired. All Man Utd fans hate that guy. The guy is a total pr1ck and definitely should never been selected as a coach. However we were so freaking desperate. No results and we needed someone proven, and he was even more proven manager than LvG cause of the success in England with Chelsea.

Ole is just a bad luck. When he joined, the team played freaking incredible. We won 9-10 games in a row and played some nice, nice football. Even the game we first lost or tied (I believe it was Burnley), we sort of dominated that game but just couldn't score. I think what happened there is that both manager and the team were under no pressure. Season was over for us so we just played football for joy and it worked. As soon as Ole became full time manager the pressure became to creep in. Performances started to become worse and worse and decisions became susceptible.

Something is wrong deep down with Manchester United and I believe Ferguson era needs to be forgotten. The domiannce we had under Fergie turned into a cloud that floats like a layer of immense pressure on the entire organization. That is what I think I am witnessing in past 6-7 years. Players and managers come to Man Utd and things at the beginning look good but soon everything goes to mediocrity. The mistakes our players make in the games are mostly to inability to cope with immense pressure. We have all proven professionals. These guys were best in their respective positions since age of 12.

Yes, Ole is bad. There is no question about that. I am not making excuses for him. There is no glimpse of organization when I see us play. Unfortunately we can't sack him unless we have clear replacement. What are we going to do? Get another caretaker manager until someone we think is good becomes available?

We need to be patient, very patient. Perhaps we are looking into decade or two of total mediocrity before we turn things around. Sir Alex Chapman Ferguson was a special, special manager.
 
Woodzy said:
Because he was never good enough for the job in the first place.
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I give Ole 1 credit for returning the team to a team, 2 credit for figuring out how to deploy Pogba. But inadequate is always inadequate. Even Rogers was able to sub players proactively, make every change counts. You can see Tuchel is good at this as well. Tactics wise, game plan wise, improvisation and all that, he has none.
 
redrobed said:
Needed to be backed in the transfer market.
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Some of our fans are truly spoilt.

He's spent, IIRC, ~450m in 2.5 years. Newcastle, a whole team with its own stadium, was just acquired for 300m. There are 12 countries with a lower GDP. We've easily outspent every non-oil-state club in the world, and even largely kept pace with PSG, Chelsea, and Man City. Klopp has spent 500m in 5 years for comparison, Pep ~1bn in 6 years. We have one of the highest wage bills in the world (all the spending numbers don't include "free" transfers like Ronaldo and Cavani).

At what point do we actually try to coach and, you know, improve players or get more out of them?
 
devilish said:
Ole is weak tactically and he doesn't do coaching so he relies on others to do that on his behalf. You expect him to surround himself with experience. He chose the likes of Carrick and Mckenna instead
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Well, then. What. Does. He. Actually. Do?

I've never understood the concept of a manager that doesn't do coaching or tactics. What's the manager's role reduced to then, an ambassadorial role - to talk to the media and look presentable on camera during the match? What in the actual fck.
 
Suedesi said:
Well, then. What. Does. He. Actually. Do?

I've never understood the concept of a manager that doesn't do coaching or tactics. What's the manager's role reduced to then, an ambassadorial role - to talk to the media and look presentable on camera during the match? What in the actual fck.
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That's probably why the players are clueless as well. Imagine receiving different instructions from McKenna, Carrick, Phelan and Ole.
 
Suedesi said:
Well, then. What. Does. He. Actually. Do?

I've never understood the concept of a manager that doesn't do coaching or tactics. What's the manager's role reduced to then, an ambassadorial role - to talk to the media and look presentable on camera during the match? What in the actual fck.
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Ole role is a one big smug cheerleader. Funniest thing I ever read. What is the point of paying him millions if he does not do what his job description ask him. Might as well put Fred the Red as our manager then since he is on a smaller wage.
 
The armchair fans have turned again. The match going fans are still showing Ole all the love and support he needs to carry on doing a difficult. job.

Next weekend is going to be a massive test though. This has ordinarily been the perfect kind of fixture for Ole, big game, stronger opponent, dire situation.... BANG a demigod performance against all odds.
 
Suedesi said:
Well, then. What. Does. He. Actually. Do?
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I don't think even he himself knows what he actually does or what he has to do given his post-match comments:


Solskjaer: "Lately we have not been in great form, lost too many points and that is something we have to look at. We might have to change, do we need more legs in there? What do we need?"
 
Suedesi said:
Well, then. What. Does. He. Actually. Do?

I've never understood the concept of a manager that doesn't do coaching or tactics. What's the manager's role reduced to then, an ambassadorial role - to talk to the media and look presentable on camera during the match? What in the actual fck.
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That in itself isn't necessarily a deal breaker. SAF called himself a tactical dinosaur (which I disagree) and delegated his coaching to others since as early as Carlos Q time. The difference here is that SAF ran a tight ship. He surrounded himself with good coaches and everyone knew his place. When Keano dared challenging Carlos Q, SAF sorted him out.

In Ole's case, he seems to leave players do whatever they want on the pitch and he had surrounded himself with mates. Phelan is said that he doesn't even do coaching anymore which means that coaching is being done by Carrick and Mckenna ie two very inexperienced coaches.
 
devilish said:
That in itself isn't necessarily a deal breaker. SAF called himself a tactical dinosaur (which I disagree) and delegated his coaching to others since as early as Carlos Q time. The difference here is that SAF ran a tight ship. He surrounded himself with good coaches and everyone knew his place. When Keano dared challenging Carlos Q, SAF sorted him out.

In Ole's case, he seems to leave players do whatever they want on the pitch and he had surrounded himself with mates. Phelan is said that he doesn't even do coaching anymore which means that coaching is being done by Carrick and Mckenna ie two very inexperienced coaches.
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SAF might not have the tactical nous, but he certainly has the tactical knowledge to know which shit works and which doesnt. That’s why he appointed Carlos Q. And when something does not work out he certainly knew what to do. This is not the case with Ole.
 
Jackal981 said:
SAF might not have the tactical nous, but he certainly has the tactical knowledge to know which shit works and which doesnt. That’s why he appointed Carlos Q. And when something does not work out he certainly knew what to do. This is not the case with Ole.
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As I said, I disagree with his assessment that he was a tactical dinosaur. In my opinion that comment was meant as a sign of appreciation and to motivate the people around him who did most of the day to day heavy lifting. However there's no doubt that at a certain age, SAF, delegated a lot to those around him. Which is why he often surrounded himself with people with talent and experience. Everyone knew his place, no one dared complaining, everyone followed the instructions given and when people went out of line (ex Keane vs Carlos Q) SAF was at the forefront to sort that out.

This United doesn't feel like that. Players seem poorly drilled with mistakes being made time and time again. Also so many players (ex Greenwood in particular) tend to go for the spectacular, individual option and no one sitting on the stands dare saying anything about it. Finally there's rumors of Phelan not even participating in training. That's quite concerning if true as that means that coaching is being done by a bunch of inexperienced people.
 
Ole is one stubborn fella (contrary to what he is being portrait) .Sancho should play on the right side not left, he has his favourite players ( doesn’t matter if the player in form or not). Extending players contract for no reason and don’t play them.
Really mind boogling
 
Skills said:
We all know someone who's shit at his/her job. Normally it's because of laziness, lack of focus or just being a bit dim. But Ole doesn't look like he's lazy and you don't have to be a particularly bright individual to manage a football club - I mean most of them are ex-footballers.

How is he genuinely that bad?
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Ehmm .... Ole is an ex-footballer, too!
 
Bulldog United said:
The armchair fans have turned again. The match going fans are still showing Ole all the love and support he needs to carry on doing a difficult. job.

Next weekend is going to be a massive test though. This has ordinarily been the perfect kind of fixture for Ole, big game, stronger opponent, dire situation.... BANG a demigod performance against all odds.
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One the biggest clubs, highest spending clubs, and the one with one of the biggest wage bills and what we fetishize now is our ability to up our game, out of the blue, after we’ve been crap for a while.

Nevermind going on winning runs, dominating teams, or making Old Trafford a fortress, no no no, we now celebrate how our manager keeps going to the brink and then rescuing himself with an unlikely win against much better and more decorated managers.

We sound like we’re Burnley now. Let’s continue to lower Man United’s standards to a level that is low enough that even Ole can look like a success at. Well done, proper fan.
 
He's done a good job for 3 years. Bear in mind that the average manager on lasts only 2 years 8 weeks and 3 days, so that's not bad going.

With notable exceptions like Ferguson and Guradiola, every manager in history has had a shelf life at each club they've been charge of. Klopp, Tuchel, Mourinho, Jose, Ancelotti, Benitez, etc. have all run into sticky patches they couldn't recover from and moved on.

It's only natural that each club's training methods, tactics and motivation styles should produce diminishing returns after a while. Particularly in a sport as competitive as football where dropping a few percentage points due to over-familiarity can mean the difference between winning and losing. SAF was unique in that he had his squads operating at 105% for most of his career. By comparison, most managers only start off at 105% (new manager bounce) then gradually decline to 95% at which point they get the sack.

Lindelof, Maguire, Pogba and Matic are all playing worse than they did last season despite the manager being the same. So our drop in standards is a bit more fundamental than people seem to be acknowledging. Even if we only got back to the level on 2020-21, we'd still be in the hunt.

Either way, I think Ole's probably coming to the end of the line now. We need a fresh face in the dressing room to give the players something different to think about.
 
He's a good man manager which is why we've had stability but in terms of excellence he's obviously nowhere near the level we need. Why should it be a surprise? Over a decade in management and see his accomplishments at the highest level (there are none).

At the end of the day we had a caretaker manager for 4 years. We've improved in some areas but all in all, we need some urgency in reaching our goals. The signings this summer and heavy spending in general whilst keeping an average coach at the helm do NOT go hand in hand.
 
The notion that just because you're an ex player and you know the club, makes you qualified to manage a football team is ludicrous.

What percentage of the world make it as a professional footballer?
What percentage of the world, make it as a premier league manager?

Now what percentage of the world make it as both, and at the same club?
The odds are astronomical!
 
Varun said:
Well, hardly surprising given he's not done anything in his managerial career to deserve even the Spurs job, let alone the Utd one.

For a club that believes in spending millions to upgrade players, we seem to think a manager is some kind of ambassadorial role that means nothing.
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Kind of mirrors a section of the fanbase. You seen them every summer, demanding this and that. A new rb, a new dm, etc but god forbid anyone asks for an upgrade in manager.
 
Abraxas said:
Possibly you're underestimating the size of the task. Actually, you certainly are.

The best managers are brilliant people and intelligent. There is absolutely no doubt about that. They pick up languages if needed, they understand how to connect with people, they can see through the noise and make decisions that most can only see in hindsight. Let's be honest, most of us on here are complete bullshitters that make obvious observations that are never tested.
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I understand what you are saying about the size of the task, but can we also acknowledge the elephant in the room:

1. It was not rocket science that he should not have started Maguire in his current form and even if he made that gamble, he should have been pulled after first goal Maguire caused, without waiting for 2 more that were his fault.

2. Bringin McT on and leaving DvB on the bench was insanity.

These are such absolutely primitive feck ups that honestly you wouldn't expect even Molde manager to make. You do not start an out of form CB and when you do and you are found out, you sub them immediately. Doesn't take a world class manager this
 
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