How good is our squad, really?

Pogue Mahone

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The above question was a big theme last year, with a lot of us coming to the painful realisation that Fergie had been getting a bunch of not particularly great players to punch well above their weight - aided by increasingly infrequent contributions from aging world class talents.

We've flatted to deceived a bit this season. There are signs of improvement (if you look for them!) but we have a similar points total to 2013/14 and a lot of fans who are not happy with where we're at right now, despite huge investment in the summer. The criticism has focussed on the manager playing people out of position and stubbornly using a formation that doesn't seem to get the best out of the players available. However, something we're not hearing much this season is the question of whether or not he's in charge of a squad of players who are good enough to be doing much better than they are.

Weirdly, it was watching Santi Cazorla last night that made me take a step back and think about the tools at Van Gaal's disposal. This was an Arsenal player - specialists in failure - who didn't even make their best XI in the opening months of the season putting on an absolutely sensational performance. Does Van Gaal have any player in his squad who has put in a performance like that this season? Or indeed, ever? Alongside him was Ramsey, who has also been a bit crap this season but was incredible the season before and could easily get back to those heights again. How many United players could score the sort of goal he scored against Galatasaray, for example? Then you have the likes of Ozil, Wilshere, Sanchez, Chamberlain and Walcott. At various times, in various games, they've all shown they're capable of absolutely destroying the best opposition around. Giroud is no great shakes but he's keeping Welbeck out of the team, a player that many of us think would have been good enough to displace either RvP or Falcao based on the respective performances this season. Their defence has been very poor at times this season but Koscielny and Mertesacker have previously gone on a long run of games looking like one of the best CB partnerships in the league. Not something you can say about any of our lot. Gibbs is a very good fullback and - although the others have their flaws - Wenger has the luxury of choosing from two specialist fullbacks on each flank. Something Van Gaal can only dream of.

The Arsenal squad is full of players who have been a bit hit and miss but when they're at their best they can look as good as any players in their position, in any team on the planet. How many United players could we say that about? I would say Rooney, Di Maria and Mata and that's it. With at least some concerns regularly expressed about all three of them. RvP was a world class striker but will he ever be one again? I suspect not. In fact, there's huge doubts whether either of our strike partnership will ever hit the heights again.

I'm not sure that any of our central midfielders would be talked about as one of the best around. Arguably Michael Carrick but he's not getting any younger and was never thought of as belonging to the very top tier. Our two wingers are reinventing themselves as wing-backs but it's a long time since we thought we had the best wingers in the league and not many United fans would have been happy last summer if they thought Valencia and Young would be our primary options out wide. We all got giddy about Januzaj but it's increasingly apparent that this was because everything else was so crap and we were desperate for some positivity. He's been no great shakes this season and his stats from his debut season don't really tally with our expectations. I hope he'll come good but is it guaranteed? I think not. Then we have our defence. Shaw has huge potential but we're still waiting to see the best of him in a United shirt and there's huge question marks over everyone else.

So yeah, our squad really does seem lacking when you compare it with the league's "fourth place specialists", never mind the teams who typically finish ahead of them. Van Gaal's stubborness and inflexibility is infuriating but perhaps it's a response to the same horrible surprise Moyes got when he took over. We're a club with title-winning aspirations that somehow ended up with a squad that is barely capable of qualifying for the Europa League.

Am I being harsh? Or has the squad overhaul that Van Gaal needs to do to compete with the best teams around barely even started?
 
Unbalanced, but easily top 3 material and I would still put it a shade above Arsenal's, especially while they have little cover at the back (though they might solve that I guess).

De Gea (Valdes)
Rafael (Valencia)
Shaw (Blind)
Jones (Smalling)
Rojo (Evans)
Carrick (Fletcher)
Herrera (Fellaini)
Rooney (Wilson)
Mata (Januzaj)
Di Maria (Young)
Falcao (Van Persie)

vs

Szczesny (Ospina)
Debuchy (Bellerin)
Gibbs (Monreal)
Koscielny (Chambers)
Mertesacker (Flamini)
Wilshere (Coquelin)
Arteta (Rosicky)
Sanchez (Walcott)
Cazorla (Chamberlain)
Ozil (Ramsey)
Giroud (Welbeck)

Both squads could do with a defender or two.

I think if we actually played the above team for a few weeks you would see a very different United.
 
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Our squad, barring the defense maybe, is fine. It's just the first XI which is being tinkered with has resulted in this shitstorm.
 
Goalkeeper - best in the league
Defence - in need of serious improvement
Midfield - good, but needs strengthening
Attack - very good if utilised properly but needs bolstering due to aging strikers

Overall - good but definitely not great, needs work.

Still though, we could and should be performing better and for me we're being held back by a stubborn manager trying to reinvent the wheel.
 
Just so we're clear, I think it's possible that we have a squad that is so weak it will make top four a real struggle and a manager who makes life even harder for himself with tactics and team selection.

Don't really want to discuss the latter in this thread, though, as there's enough threads discussing that already. Just wondering if, man for man, we have a right to consider our squad as one of the elite.
 
The squad is very good, but the 1st thing the manager needs to do is to decide what's the best starting 11 and the formation. Until that point, you will never know how good the team can play.
 
Rado_N said:
Goalkeeper - best in the league
Defence - in need of serious improvement
Midfield - good, but needs strengthening
Attack - very good if utilised properly but needs bolstering due to aging strikers

Overall - good but definitely not great, needs work.

Still though, we could and should be performing better and for me we're being held back by a stubborn manager trying to reinvent the wheel.
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Good point. Although a great keeper will only get you so far. Can be the difference between two evenly matched teams but you really don't want to be relying on your keeper to push you up the league table!
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Good point. Although a great keeper will only get you so far. Can be the difference between two evenly matched teams but you really don't want to be relying on your keeper to push you up the league table!
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A top class keeper is a fundamental part of a successful team. Solid teams are built from the back and that starts with the guy between the sticks.

Our most successful periods came with proper first class keepers in Schmeichel and VDS, and I'd argue the most important piece of business for Woodward this summer is getting DDG signed up to a new five year deal.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Just so we're clear, I think it's possible that we have a squad that is so weak it will make top four a real struggle and a manager who makes life even harder for himself with tactics and team selection.

Don't really want to discuss the latter in this thread, though, as there's enough threads discussing that already. Just wondering if, man for man, we have a right to consider our squad as one of the elite.
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Only Chelsea and City have definitely better. I'd put ours as marginally the best of the rest in the PL.
 
In terms of squad depth, we've got the best central midfield. Take away Matic and Fabregas and Chelsea's is average. We saw what City's was like without Toure yesterday. Arsenal's is pretty average.
 
so if Fergie was able to get so much out of them and his successors aren't, isn't that a case of there being too many variables involved. Otherwise, the question to be asked is what was so Sir Alex that he could get so much of them if the players weren't good enough, or are the managers we have appointed not good enough to manage the variables of the squad, club, fan expectation, changing competition, etc.

It is simply not a question of squad or maybe even simply that of a manager. It is more of a management/leadership issue rather a purely football issue. However much i want to simplify things, it doesn't make sense to just view it in terms of either the manager or the players as stand alone entities.
 
sajeev said:
so if Fergie was able to get so much out of them and his successors aren't, isn't that a case of there being too many variables involved. Otherwise, the question to be asked is what was so Sir Alex that he could get so much of them if the players weren't good enough, or are the managers we have appointed not good enough to manage the variables of the squad, club, fan expectation, changing competition, etc.

It is simply not a question of squad or maybe even simply that of a manager. It is more of a management/leadership issue rather a purely football issue. However much i want to simplify things, it doesn't make sense to just view it in terms of either the manager or the players as stand alone entities.
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I think a lot of that has to do with Fergie having Giggs, Scholes, Vidic, Ferdinand and Evra all contributing - to a greater or lesser extent - up until the point where he retired.

All five of them were genuinely elite, world class players and I would struggle to think of five players at the same level who have been added to the squad to help us cope with their absence. Five players. That's almost half a team!
 
sincher said:
Only Chelsea and City have definitely better. I'd put ours as marginally the best of the rest in the PL.
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How is City's squad better than ours?

Goalkeepers - Hart, Caballero vs De Gea, Valdes

Defense - Yeah, they win that one, overall.

Midfield - Toure, Fernandinho, Fernando, Silva, Milner, Nasri, Navas vs Carrick, Blind, Herrera, Mata, ADM, Fellaini, Januzaj, Young, Valencia

Attack - Aguero, Dzeko, Jovetic, Bony vs Rooney, Falcao, RVP, Wilson

It's not clear-cut by any means. I'd argue they're fairly equal.
 
TooBias said:
Take away Matic and Fabregas and Chelsea's is average.
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Yeah, no man, no problem.

Chelsea's defence is crap if you exterminate Terry and Cahill, and City's attack rubbish if you send Aguero and Bony to the gulag.

As soon as we employ Joseph Stalin as our new manager, we'll win the league!
 
sincher said:
Only Chelsea and City have definitely better. I'd put ours as marginally the best of the rest in the PL.
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Chelsea don't have a great "squad". Their first 11 is perhaps the best in the league and the best part is they play very consistently, unlike our players most of whom would fall in a heap under the weight of a feather.
 
I think the talent in United is top 3, but the workrate isn't yet. Mata, Di Maria and even Rooney do far less work without the ball than many attacking midfielders in the league. It puts added pressure on the defence (which is perfectly fine; probably top 4 in the league) and midfield.

Not much between United, Chelsea and Spurs for goalkeepers, but Spurs probably trail third in that.
 
Chelsea are ahead because they have no weaknesses in their first XI.

That seems like a decent starting point for squad building...
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I think a lot of that has to do with Fergie having Giggs, Scholes, Vidic, Ferdinand and Evra all contributing - to a greater or lesser extent - up until the point where he retired.

All five of them were genuinely elite, world class players and I would struggle to think of five players at the same level who have been added to the squad to help us cope with their absence. Five players. That's almost half a team!
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if you consider the time from 2011-12, there wasn't really significant contribution on a regular basis from all the 5, especially Giggs and Scholes.

We coped with Vidic being away for a long time, and he got Ferdinand to produce at a really high level in his last season. Evra wasn't really great for a few seasons and actually was better last season than some of the earlier seasons.

You really think if we had Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Scholes & Giggs at their 2012-13 levels, it would have made a difference to Van Gaal? I am not sure.
 
Think we have a great group of individuals .Just got to get them playing as team.
 
We have a very good team IMO. Players like Di Maria, Rooney and De Gea are top class and could play for any team in the league, the likes of Herrera, Blind, Fellaini (on his current form), van Persie, Mata, Carrick and Shaw wouldn't look out of place at any PL side either. The likes of Valencia, Jones, Rojo and Smalling are solid players as well. We have managed to get rid of a lot of dross over the last few years really.

Our weakness is there is hardly any balance nad there are some players van Gaal will rather not use at all or not use in their prefered position under any circumstances whatsoever. For starters we have little pace and our attack is too predictable, add a pacey top class forward to our current selection and our strength bumps up considerably. Likewise in defence you could add a leader plus a reliable right back that isn't always injured and you'd have a very good line-up there too.

With a few additions we'd reach Chelsea/City level. Their teams at the moment are nothing spectacular IMO.
 
sajeev said:
if you consider the time from 2011-12, there wasn't really significant contribution on a regular basis from all the 5, especially Giggs and Scholes.

We coped with Vidic being away for a long time, and he got Ferdinand to produce at a really high level in his last season. Evra wasn't really great for a few seasons and actually was better last season than some of the earlier seasons.

You really think if we had Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Scholes & Giggs at their 2012-13 levels, it would have made a difference to Van Gaal? I am not sure.
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2012-13 was a weird season. We were dragged over the line by exceptional individual seasons from Van Persie and Carrick. Who were both almost miraculously injury free. You're right in that the five players I mentioned were all fairly crap by then but I do think Evra helped us out in attack a lot, which is something we've badly missed since. He even started scoring a few goals in that season. I just think all five of them were key in us winning so many titles in Fergie's last few years in charge and I don't see the players who play the same position as them being anywhere near the same caliber. Which is a big problem IMO.

Of course, the "Fergie factor" was huge too. Give him the same squad of players as Van Gaal and we'd do a lot better. Especially when you consider how long he'd been working with that squad and the relationship he had with all of them. They would run through walls for him. Any new manager is immediately on the back foot in this regard.
 
Its a decent squad but very unbalanced. Also the columns of which the team had relied on for a number of years (Fletcher, Carrick, RVP) are showing signs of decline. Its basically the opposite of the treble winning squad. The treble squad had less names but it had the right balance and fighting spirit. This squad is filled with stars but lack heart, pace and composure
 
sincher said:
Chelsea are ahead because they have no weaknesses in their first XI.

That seems like a decent starting point for squad building...
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There were weaknesses last year and they addressed them. It takes time to build a squad like that and it will with us.
 
United have a fantastic squad but your manager is looking increasingly clueless.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
There were weaknesses last year and they addressed them. It takes time to build a squad like that and it will with us.
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I don't think they did. Central defence was a huge weakness last season and it's as shonky as ever. Dunno what to make of Rojo yet but I certainly don't think he's addressed our issues in central defence.
 
Good players in the squad, but they lack the cohesion of a Chelsea and a Man City.

We need a new player in every position apart from goalkeeper.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I don't think they did. Central defence was a huge weakness last season and it's as shonky as ever. Dunno what to make of Rojo yet but I certainly don't think he's addressed our issues in central defence.
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They couldn't score enough goals, so they got Costa and Fabregas the provide them. I agree with the defence, but they are good enough to get by.
 
I never bought the argument that because we streaking the title in Fergie's last season that it was a great United side, or that Moyes should have been automatically challenging for the title. Fergie was basically a human cheat mode code and now, having had two mere mortals managing the side, we're seeing how hard it is to manage a side that has only recently had the sort of investment that other top sides have been engaging in habitually. Going through the team:

Goalkeeper: He's great, obviously, but he might be off in the summer to be replaced by a guy who is unproven in this legaue, with this style of football, not to mention his obvious fitness issues.

Defence: Is poor. Almost none of them could complain if they were sold. Rojo, by virtue of being new and a LVG signing, will be safe, but he looks a poor player to me. The rest of our centre halves have either regressed massively since Fergie's time, or are in such sustained periods of poor form as to have us worried that it might be all they'll ever offer us. Players like Rafael might be good enough if only they could stay fit, but haven't we been banging that drum for a while now?

Midfield: Somehow we managed to blunder through another window without solving this. Carrick is in fantastic form and Blind looks a good, solid player. Fellaini has improved and, on form, I'd be playing him every week now. Mata, despite a decent record statistically, flatters to deceive too often though, to be fair, we're asking him to do things that he's not suited to. Herrera I like, but it's pretty apparent that he's not LVG's cup of tea, so that looks like another wedge wasted. Rooney playing in midfield is just another instance of us not confronting the actual issues we have and shoe-horning in too many players that don't quite fit. He's being played there because he can do a better job that we already have, but all that should tell us is that we don't have a very good midfield. Di Maria has been shunted around but, for all of that, has looked poor for us since the initial burst of Veron-esque good form. The season after a WC can be tough for players, though, so hopefully with a summer off we'll see the best of him.

Attack: Rooney should be playing up front. RvP had a mini revival but still looks like a player whose best days are behind him. Falcao doesn't look the player he was and, right now seems like he'd be an expensive mistake. Wilson is really promising.

Personally I think we're not comparable to either Chelsea or City at the moment. And, as @sincher said, I think a big issue is the weakness of our first XI. Right now we just don't match up.
 
Polite Poster said:
United have a fantastic squad but your manager is looking increasingly clueless.
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Not clueless, arrogant and stubborn. 352 would be a great formation with the right set of players, but he doesn't have the right balance for it to work at United. However, instead of changing to a formation more suited to our players and the football the fans want to see, he's arrogant enough to believe he can make 352 work with the players he has, and stubborn enough not to change once he's so publicly planted his flag in 352.
 
sincher said:
Yeah, no man, no problem.

Chelsea's defence is crap if you exterminate Terry and Cahill, and City's attack rubbish if you send Aguero and Bony to the gulag.

As soon as we employ Joseph Stalin as our new manager, we'll win the league!
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What are you on about? This thread is about squads. I'm saying Chelsea's depth in CM isn't enough to compensate for the loss of Matic or Fabregas who are clearly much better than any other CMs in Chelsea's squad.
 
It's got a core of very good players but squad players who just straight up aren't good enough no matter what excuses are made for them and we are currently having to rely on them.

GOALKEEPERS
De Gea
Valdes

DEFENSE
Shaw
Rafael
Smalling
Jones
Rojo
Evans

WINGERS
Valencia
Young

CENTREMIDS
Di Maria
Blind
Fellaini
Herrera
Carrick
Fletcher

ATTACK
Rooney - Top Class - reasonable age vital experience.
Wilson - Great Prospect - Great age huge potential.
Mata - Top Class - good age and will be a vital tool.
RvP- Top Class - Not a good age, declining clearly.
Falcao - Who Knows - big question marks.


PURPLE - Great players, no questions.
BLUE - Good squad players, few questions over age, injuries or ability as first choice.
GREEN - Good players but not long left.
RED - Not good enough for United as an elite club.


Obviously just my opinions but that's the shape I think it's in. I've not included players I think don't have any real future here. That includes all first team loan players and McNair and Blackett who are just filling in a role in exceptional circumstances.

We're desperate for a right back, a replacement for Evans and genuine top class attacking wide players to offer us something different in attack.

All in all good shape going forward, good ages and potential but the development of the squad as a cohesive unit has been severely hampered by injuries. The more they play together the better they will become.
 
Our squad is easily the best in the league only behind Chelsea and City, but that doesn't say much as it is still unbalanced if we want to get anywhere in Europe and not get knocked out by the first decent team we face in the CL (if we make it which we really should), then we need more quality in defence and midfield.

If we don't make it it will be 100 % down to LvG and not the squad (plus it was him who actually brought and is still bringing more imbalance to this squad with signings and his stupid formations and team selections).
 
sincher said:
Chelsea are ahead because they have no weaknesses in their first XI.

That seems like a decent starting point for squad building...
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Do you think it was really possible for Van Gaal to fix all the weaknesses in the summer?

Why didn't Mourinho fix them in 2013 when he arrived? He had a longer summer than Van Gaal with no disruptive World Cup.


Could it be that most managers like to build gradually and assess the squad over a period of time?
 
Pexbo said:
It's got a core of very good players but squad players who just straight up aren't good enough no matter what excuses are made for them and we are currently having to rely on them.

GOALKEEPERS
De Gea
Valdes

DEFENSE
Shaw
Rafael
Smalling
Jones
Rojo
Evans

WINGERS
Valencia
Young

CENTREMIDS
Di Maria
Blind
Fellaini
Herrera
Carrick
Fletcher

ATTACK
Rooney - Top Class - reasonable age vital experience.
Wilson - Great Prospect - Great age huge potential.
Mata - Top Class - good age and will be a vital tool.
RvP- Top Class - Not a good age, declining clearly.
Falcao - Who Knows - big question marks.


PURPLE - Great players, no questions.
BLUE - Good squad players, few questions over age, injuries or ability as first choice.
GREEN - Good players but not long left.
RED - Not good enough for United as an elite club.


Obviously just my opinions but that's the shape I think it's in. I've not included players I think don't have any real future here. That includes all first team loan players and McNair and Blackett who are just filling in a role in exceptional circumstances.

We're desperate for a right back, a replacement for Evans and genuine top class attacking wide players to offer us something different in attack.

All in all good shape going forward, good ages and potential but the development of the squad as a cohesive unit has been severely hampered by injuries. The more they play together the better they will become.
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Not sure Shaw warrants a purple tbh. Modern fullbacks need to be more than just solid defenders and he's done next to nothing in the final third this season. Plus he has been great defending, one v one, but has made some defensive errors. He's as much a work in progress as the other blues IMO.

Also worth noting that of the four reds you have there, two of them (Valencia and Young) would be amongst the best performing players under Van Gaal.
 
In terms of individuals, we're fine in most areas, in the sense that a side by side comparison with other teams doesn't show us up. Defense of course needs bolstering, but otherwise we're okay. But I think the LVG is right when he talks about balance.

Look at midfield for example. (Assume we play a diamond, so we're looking for three midfielders, with Rooney at number 10). What do you want from an ideal midfield?

Defensively you want a robust physicality that can stand up to being bullied, the ability to tackle cleanly, tactical nous to cover opposition strikers dropping deep or midfielders bursting into our box late, the discipline to concentrate under pressure and the speed to put out fires as they emerge.

Offensively you want the ability to dictate the flow of a game, the skill to create assists, the pace and dribbling ability to run with the ball and beat a man, the energy to get into the box late and cause a problem, the balance to attack from both left and right, enough height to make varied attacks a reliastic proposition and, of course, the ability to actually bang in 10 to 15 goals between them.

At the moment there isn't a combination of players available to us that ticks all these boxes, or even most of them. Go with Blind/Herrera/ADM and you face being outmuscled and you lack the vision and passing range of Carrck. Replace Carrick for Blind and you lose your efficient tackler. Swap Herrera for Fellaini and you gain height and strength, but you lose passing ability and creativity. Swap ADM for Fellaini and you lose your pace, and so on. Whatever combination you come up with, you're missing something important.

I hate to raise his name here, but stick Strootman in there and things change dramatically. A trio of Blind/Strootman/ADM pretty much ticks all those boxes. Now you have a starting midfield with no obvious weakness, other than maybe a left sided bias. We may or may not get him or someone like him, but it shows how its more like a missing ingredient at the moment, rather than a lack of quality players.
 
Domestically, I'd say we were equal third with Arsenal - behind the obvious two. It has to be mentioned though that to build a squad and identify what it needs you need to know how you want to play. I suspect Van Gaal does know, but he sure is hell isn't going to tell us.
 
Brophs said:
I never bought the argument that because we streaking the title in Fergie's last season that it was a great United side, or that Moyes should have been automatically challenging for the title. Fergie was basically a human cheat mode code and now, having had two mere mortals managing the side, we're seeing how hard it is to manage a side that has only recently had the sort of investment that other top sides have been engaging in habitually. Going through the team:

Goalkeeper: He's great, obviously, but he might be off in the summer to be replaced by a guy who is unproven in this legaue, with this style of football, not to mention his obvious fitness issues.

Defence: Is poor. Almost none of them could complain if they were sold. Rojo, by virtue of being new and a LVG signing, will be safe, but he looks a poor player to me. The rest of our centre halves have either regressed massively since Fergie's time, or are in such sustained periods of poor form as to have us worried that it might be all they'll ever offer us. Players like Rafael might be good enough if only they could stay fit, but haven't we been banging that drum for a while now?

Midfield: Somehow we managed to blunder through another window without solving this. Carrick is in fantastic form and Blind looks a good, solid player. Fellaini has improved and, on form, I'd be playing him every week now. Mata, despite a decent record statistically, flatters to deceive too often though, to be fair, we're asking him to do things that he's not suited to. Herrera I like, but it's pretty apparent that he's not LVG's cup of tea, so that looks like another wedge wasted. Rooney playing in midfield is just another instance of us not confronting the actual issues we have and shoe-horning in too many players that don't quite fit. He's being played there because he can do a better job that we already have, but all that should tell us is that we don't have a very good midfield. Di Maria has been shunted around but, for all of that, has looked poor for us since the initial burst of Veron-esque good form. The season after a WC can be tough for players, though, so hopefully with a summer off we'll see the best of him.

Attack: Rooney should be playing up front. RvP had a mini revival but still looks like a player whose best days are behind him. Falcao doesn't look the player he was and, right now seems like he'd be an expensive mistake. Wilson is really promising.

Personally I think we're not comparable to either Chelsea or City at the moment. And, as @sincher said, I think a big issue is the weakness of our first XI. Right now we just don't match up.
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Yup. I would agree with all of that. Van Gaal inherited a deeply flawed squad and seems to have (at this early stage) spent an awful lot of money without significantly improving it.

It's a bit mad that Fellaini, Young and Valencia would be among our best performers this season and most United fans wanted all three of them gone in the summer.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Not sure Shaw warrants a purple tbh. Modern fullbacks need to be more than just solid defenders and he's done next to nothing in the final third this season. Plus he has been great defending, one v one, but has made some defensive errors. He's as much a work in progress as the other blues IMO.

Also worth noting that of the four reds you have there, two of them (Valencia and Young) would be amongst the best performing players under Van Gaal.
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At 19 I think Shaw is a shoe in for Top Quality hence the purple.

As far as Young and Valencia go, at their age do you really see them as players we can plan for the future with? The target according to Woodward and Van Gaal is to target being a Champions League contender. They don't fit in that target for me, even as squad players. We need to replace them with players who don't just "do a job" but make a difference.
 
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