I think the squad he inherited was incredibly lopsided and it's going to take two summer windows to get it structured properly as the Jan window is usually useless if you want top quality, there are exceptions but not many. I think he'll get things ship shape in the summer but it's going to take an outlay similar to last summer.
How good is our squad, really?
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I think the squad he inherited was incredibly lopsided and it's going to take two summer windows to get it structured properly as the Jan window is usually useless if you want top quality, there are exceptions but not many. I think he'll get things ship shape in the summer but it's going to take an outlay similar to last summer.
Yeah, in my summary of problems he inherited I didn't even mention those he's already had to get rid of. Anderson, Kagawa, Zaha, Hernandez, Fletcher. Even Welbeck isn't turning out quite as good as a lot of us hoped (still be a good squad player though IMO) Nani's arguably the only real talent he's moved on but he's been flattering to deceive for years.
The scale of the rebuild he took on can't be emphasised enough.
The quality of our squad has declined severly during the last 4 years. Some of it is SAF' fault, some of it is Moyes' fault. Ofcourse LvG made mistakes this season, but if you watch yesterday's game, then you cannot help but feel that the overall quality of this team isn't near world class. So many players that cannot control a ball decently on 1 or 2 touches, simple 5 yard passes going wrong, defenders that are timebombs, simple crosses going wrong. Which one of our players would make Chelsea' first 11 or of City/Bayern/Barca/Atletico? DDG would make it into most of them, maybe Rooney but thats it.. With all the injuries we've had, I think LvG is working wonders and we should be delighted to be where we are at the moment.
It is astounding how quickly we shit on talent in here, we have a hugely talented squad that isn't playing well together at the moment.
Nah, we have a few hugely talented players, a few promising youngsters and a bunch of problems that need sorting. A "hugely talented squad" we most definitely do not have.
If you disagree, maybe list all the "hugely talented" players Van Gaal has at his disposal in this "hugely talented squad". Has to be the majority of our best XI at the very least. So that's 6 or 7 players. Name them.
In the area where we do have very talented players, we are oversupplied. Overall I do not think our squad is hugely talented, atleast not on par with the best clubs in the PL/Bundesliga or Primera. We may have the potential when all players are fully fit, but we both know that is never going to happen because a lot of these players have shown to be consistently injured the past 3 years.
DDG, Valdes, Rojo, Blind, Carrick, Di Maria, Herrera, Rooney and RVP are all amazing players, we aren't playing well right now so apparently these players go from brilliant to average.
You have a really weird definitoon of amazing if you think most of the above are amazing.
I think the only three we have who can be classified as amazing are DDG, Rooney, and Di Maria, and the latter has been pretty hit and miss in his amazingness this season.
Our best players (on paper) are pass and move players. We've even got a couple of runners. Our style of play however, seems to prize positional discipline and possession over movement.
It actually reminds me of youth team coaching, where one approach to the transition to "big pitch, 11 a a side," is to stop the session after each move - ask the players where they "should be" and what pass they "should have made" before moving on. I keep getting the sensation that our practice sessions must look like, with a stoppage every 15 seconds.
The majority of our players are either PL-trained or Liga trained, and the stop/reset approach just leaves them looking hesitant and slow. In other words I think the style is making the squad look worse than it is - it relies on people moving to cover the runner and as no one can be trusted to move, no one runs. Maybe it's a Dutch thing, Blind can do it, even though on the face of it he's one of the least well equipped for decisive runs, so maybe it's just a matter of time and willingness to learn.
In my imagination I keep visualising it all suddenly clicking into place, like one of those sliding tile puzzles where to move one piece, you need to move a bunch of others, but with a bit of thought it can be done. Meanwhile, I guess we have to wait until we're a goal down and then hoof it up to the big man.
It actually reminds me of youth team coaching, where one approach to the transition to "big pitch, 11 a a side," is to stop the session after each move - ask the players where they "should be" and what pass they "should have made" before moving on. I keep getting the sensation that our practice sessions must look like, with a stoppage every 15 seconds.
The majority of our players are either PL-trained or Liga trained, and the stop/reset approach just leaves them looking hesitant and slow. In other words I think the style is making the squad look worse than it is - it relies on people moving to cover the runner and as no one can be trusted to move, no one runs. Maybe it's a Dutch thing, Blind can do it, even though on the face of it he's one of the least well equipped for decisive runs, so maybe it's just a matter of time and willingness to learn.
In my imagination I keep visualising it all suddenly clicking into place, like one of those sliding tile puzzles where to move one piece, you need to move a bunch of others, but with a bit of thought it can be done. Meanwhile, I guess we have to wait until we're a goal down and then hoof it up to the big man.
And Di Maria and Rooney havent been hit and miss this season?
This. We still need 4 players to complete the team & squad to one capable of challenging for the major trophies. A right back, Proven stay fit quality at CB, a dominant CM force
and a winger of real pace and power to compliment the qualities we already have.
I think De Gea has again been our best player, by fecking miles again too, followed by Blind. I don't think anybody else has looked that good this season outside of the a few games here and there. Rooney for example had a month where he looked fantastic but that seems a long time ago, same with Di Maria.
In fact in terms of consistency I'd say Ashley Young is probably up there, he's played well pretty much every time he's played I think. I agree with the consensus here though, our squad isn't that good and we have some big issues to sort out. There's a lot of talent in there but theres more work to do.
In fact in terms of consistency I'd say Ashley Young is probably up there, he's played well pretty much every time he's played I think. I agree with the consensus here though, our squad isn't that good and we have some big issues to sort out. There's a lot of talent in there but theres more work to do.
The inherited squad was very lopsided but on paper the squad looks as good as it has since Ronaldo left the club. Infact, scratch the paper part, it is better full stop. It's smaller and more cohesive, too. Our bench last night was a nice one to look at. Viable options and no shite.
It's a major work in progress, certainly, but there is a lot of talent and energy there already. We do need more players, but more importantly we need to play players in their correct positions and play with more vigour and energy, something that can be achieved with a shift in mentality, work on the training pitch and some confidence.
Playing-wise we need a right back, centre half, central midfielder, and a dynamic goalscoring forward. Do-able.
Irrespective of where we finish this season, I think many of the players at the club will only improve going forward.
It's a major work in progress, certainly, but there is a lot of talent and energy there already. We do need more players, but more importantly we need to play players in their correct positions and play with more vigour and energy, something that can be achieved with a shift in mentality, work on the training pitch and some confidence.
Playing-wise we need a right back, centre half, central midfielder, and a dynamic goalscoring forward. Do-able.
Irrespective of where we finish this season, I think many of the players at the club will only improve going forward.
Whut? I said Di Maria was hit and miss. "The latter"...
Rooney has too but too be fair, he's played in midfield half of it. When he's been up top he has generally been very good.
I don't think that is even true, hit and miss up top too.
Hugely talented? Are you being serious?
The squad LVG and Moyes inherited was dire. Absolutely dire.
LVG has managed to shift ten or twelve of the deadwood. I think another 5-8 still remain.
The players we bought in the summer all look like solid additions. I think Herrera will prove useful and Di Maria will find more consistency when he is playing with better players.
Most of our defenders are midrange quality crocks. Midfield is the same. Attack are past its.
Only players that are definitely worth keeping are the new recruits from the summer plus DDG and probably Rooney if played in his proper position. Mata is a good player and may fit better with new recruits.
So two players pre-summer.
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Our squad is fine. How we play isn't a reflection of the talent available, more a reflection of LVG's pragmatism. Yeah, it can be ugly as hell, but it's getting the job done. Once we've ironed out a few of the imbalances and addressed some key areas, we'll see some great football from most of the players already here.
-----Rooney----- (RVP, Wilson)
WF---------------- (Januzaj)
-----Mata-DiMaria (Januzaj, Rooney, Nani)
----Herrera----- (CM, Pereira)
-----Blind------- (Carrick)
Shaw---------RB- (Rafael, Blackett, Valencia/Young)
---CB--Smalling--- (Rojo, Jones, McNair)
-----De Gea------ (Valdes, Young Serb)
And you could even argue against needing an RB with Rafael's talent and Valencia's decent play. That squad is strong, it just desperately needs some talent and pace out wide and probably a CB to run things and drop each CB a rung).
I believe that, in their correct roles, De Gea, Shaw, Herrera, Mata, Di Maria and Rooney are all productive, talented and durable enough. Blind, Rafael, Smalling/Rojo all have (very different questions) but won't hurt us too badly (Except for Rafael by being unavailable).
WF---------------- (Januzaj)
-----Mata-DiMaria (Januzaj, Rooney, Nani)
----Herrera----- (CM, Pereira)
-----Blind------- (Carrick)
Shaw---------RB- (Rafael, Blackett, Valencia/Young)
---CB--Smalling--- (Rojo, Jones, McNair)
-----De Gea------ (Valdes, Young Serb)
And you could even argue against needing an RB with Rafael's talent and Valencia's decent play. That squad is strong, it just desperately needs some talent and pace out wide and probably a CB to run things and drop each CB a rung).
I believe that, in their correct roles, De Gea, Shaw, Herrera, Mata, Di Maria and Rooney are all productive, talented and durable enough. Blind, Rafael, Smalling/Rojo all have (very different questions) but won't hurt us too badly (Except for Rafael by being unavailable).
When we don't constantly look forward to a necessary 200 milliion pound spend to bring us up to scratch with the likes of Chelsea and City then our squad is ok.
Or another way of putting it is.....Our squad is 200 million smackers short of challenging for the PL title and CL.
Or another way of putting it is.....Our squad is 200 million smackers short of challenging for the PL title and CL.
Not sure where to put this but after the last few games I reckon our defenders are playing so poorly because of what they're up against in training. RVP and Falcao have been seriously underwhelming. Could that be hurting us at both ends...a sh!t striker spitroast if you will?
I think the squad near the end of summer was good enough to at least ensure a Top 3 spot. Don't think the Falcao/Welbeck thing needed to happen, but LVG wanted something different, I guess. Honestly believe if Mou had that squad, we'd easily be in the Top 3 comfortably, as he'd keep it simple and not muck around with the formations so much. Granted, the amount of injuries forced a lot of the changes, but I think LVG has tried to do too much too soon with what he had.
Does that mean we have a top class squad? Nope, as the players we were counting on to be our stalwarts in defense have really become dodgy (especially Evans), and it seems our strikers have lost their edge. I'd be shocked if we don't spend heavily again this summer, especially if we qualify for the CL.
Does that mean we have a top class squad? Nope, as the players we were counting on to be our stalwarts in defense have really become dodgy (especially Evans), and it seems our strikers have lost their edge. I'd be shocked if we don't spend heavily again this summer, especially if we qualify for the CL.
I think many are underestimating the task he has and have an easy answer in the idea that playing Herrera and Fellaini in midfield together would fix things to a degree, but I find it hard to believe that LvG had not tried this in training and saw how it functioned. I also think he has been let down by the fact Jones and Smalling have not pushed on and Evans has regressed, plus the fact he has not one but two strikers who are basically living off the fumes of their reputation.
I think we need a bit more than that personally. I'd say 2 CB's are needed and I think RvP and Falcao should be let go and a younger, more rounded and versatile striker brought in.
A right back, centreback (or two), centre midfielder, winger, striker.
All have to be top quality. It will cost an absolute fortune.
All have to be top quality. It will cost an absolute fortune.
The next round of expenditure is likely to be for some real big hitters to give our other youth more time to be assessed. We have seen Blackett, McNair, Adnan, Wilson given chances, remains to be seen who else can step up.
The fact that Fellani, Young, Smalling and Valencia have got a new lease of life also sets the bar at a reasonable level. As LVG said, new players must be better than what he has, so he is not looking for squad players.
I fancy RVP and Falcao to be replaced up front with 1 or 2 strikers. I think Mata or Herrera may end up going, but only one of them. Carrick is likely to be replaced as first choice, but remain. I also think we will be saying good bye to Evans, Jones and Rafael. So there will be some turn round in the Summer. That is one hell of a layout.
The league doesn't lie, we are not championship material at the moment, but we could be by next year.
Sounds like City are looking for a new manager, Chelsea have a number of players likely to be surplus to requirements, looks like Liverpool will need to spend again, as will Spurs. Not sure if Arsenal need to, but maybe they will replace one or more of Rosicky, Carzola, Arteta, Flamini.
The fact that Fellani, Young, Smalling and Valencia have got a new lease of life also sets the bar at a reasonable level. As LVG said, new players must be better than what he has, so he is not looking for squad players.
I fancy RVP and Falcao to be replaced up front with 1 or 2 strikers. I think Mata or Herrera may end up going, but only one of them. Carrick is likely to be replaced as first choice, but remain. I also think we will be saying good bye to Evans, Jones and Rafael. So there will be some turn round in the Summer. That is one hell of a layout.
The league doesn't lie, we are not championship material at the moment, but we could be by next year.
Sounds like City are looking for a new manager, Chelsea have a number of players likely to be surplus to requirements, looks like Liverpool will need to spend again, as will Spurs. Not sure if Arsenal need to, but maybe they will replace one or more of Rosicky, Carzola, Arteta, Flamini.
On paper 4th best in the league, A few very good players with some better than average premier league level types, a step or two above Liverpool and a step below Arsenal albeit similar - they just have a bit more quality.
Dani alvez on a free would save us having to spend there for a few years. Unless we go for Clyne in the summer
Whilst we obviously do lack quality in our squad, I can't help but feel the overriding issues are more than we lack balance and synergy. We have some world class players, but they don't complement each other at all.
Probably a natural effect of buying for three different managers over the last three years, especially at a club where the manager has so much input into who we sign.
It's true that that's a factor. 3 managers with different playing styles too. But, to a certain extent I can't help but feel LVG didn't particularly rectify this last summer. I accept it will take more than a summer, at a minimum 2, but even LVGs signings were a mish mash. I just hope they were signings with a long term view and a plan as to what he intends to do this summer.
Dani alvez on a free would save us having to spend there for a few years. Unless we go for Clyne in the summer
Not convinced he'd have the engine to attack and defend for too long.
Those three defenders you listed are just not good enough right now. I'll stop short of saying to sell Jones and Smalling but Evans needs to be moved on. Jones is a nightmare and what he offers could easily be replaced with a Ryan Shawcross, which isn't what I class as a top centre back. Smalling looks fine but then has major brain freezes which are just not acceptable at this level. Evans is just not good enough and doesn't have time on his side to improve - a transfer out I feel is inevitable for him.
Falcao is definitely not staying. However, I actually don't think RVP is necessarily done and would be an amazing player to keep for a few years until he retires, if only his wages weren't ridiculous.
I don't think LVG can be really blamed for this summer. He arrived late due to the World Cup, two of the signings were already made and he already said, and i think he was right, to look at the team first in pre-season before deciding on what he needs. Unfortunately i don't think that really left us much time to put in the groundwork some of the bigger transfers needs.
The transfers we did make, were ones that were simple and some we probably wouldn't of even made if he had the time. Shaw and Herrera was already done before LVG arrived, Rojo and Blind were easy players to get that LVG knew i don't think we would of signed them if LVG had already been here a season and we got lucky with Di Maria and Falcao, they came on the market and were pretty much offered to us, we wouldn't of got them if any sort of chasing was required.
One thing is for sure, the squad seems allot stronger than it once was. I look at our midfield, it is very talented, it is at times lacking with world class pace, not pace but players who can make things happen, when running with the ball.
Look at the current midfield, it's actually quiet strong
Blind Carrick Herrera fellaini di Maria janazaj mata
Compare it To 2 years ago
Carrick Cleverley Fletcher anderson scholes giggs Valencia young nani kagwa
That is some pretty good options We have now. I moved young and Valencia into our defence, as they are now fullbacks/wingbacks than wingers. I have not seen us have this kind of quality in midfield for a very long time, if van gaal can add another top class winger and CM we are going to look very scary
Look at the current midfield, it's actually quiet strong
Blind Carrick Herrera fellaini di Maria janazaj mata
Compare it To 2 years ago
Carrick Cleverley Fletcher anderson scholes giggs Valencia young nani kagwa
That is some pretty good options We have now. I moved young and Valencia into our defence, as they are now fullbacks/wingbacks than wingers. I have not seen us have this kind of quality in midfield for a very long time, if van gaal can add another top class winger and CM we are going to look very scary
when played in the right positions we are a 6.5/10 - the ability is there with our attacking players in particular but confidence is a major issue
I do think players like Smalling/Jones will mature and improve.........though I felt the same about Jonny Evans who was super as a kid on loan at Sunderland and was a great partner to Vidic - he has regressed badly though - can he regain form?
the most pleasing thing about LVG for me is that he has helped Fellaini and Young look like impressive players again.
I think this Summer will address most of the remaining issues
arriving late after the World Cup and heading off to the US wasn't ideal and LVG has had an opportunity to assess the squad properly now
I can see another 4/5 heading out (Evans/Rafael/Falcao/Hernandez/Nani/Powell?)
with 4/5 coming in
RB, CB, CM, and possibly 2 attacking players
I do think players like Smalling/Jones will mature and improve.........though I felt the same about Jonny Evans who was super as a kid on loan at Sunderland and was a great partner to Vidic - he has regressed badly though - can he regain form?
the most pleasing thing about LVG for me is that he has helped Fellaini and Young look like impressive players again.
I think this Summer will address most of the remaining issues
arriving late after the World Cup and heading off to the US wasn't ideal and LVG has had an opportunity to assess the squad properly now
I can see another 4/5 heading out (Evans/Rafael/Falcao/Hernandez/Nani/Powell?)
with 4/5 coming in
RB, CB, CM, and possibly 2 attacking players
we're heading in the right direction at least. the squad and first 11 isn't good enough but it's better than last year. next year will be better than this. it takes time - when was the last time Chelsea won a title?
a potential spine of DDG--Hummels/Godin--Pogba/equivalent--Di Maria--Rooney has the makings of a class side -- still a few signings to go, though.
a potential spine of DDG--Hummels/Godin--Pogba/equivalent--Di Maria--Rooney has the makings of a class side -- still a few signings to go, though.