If Jose were managing this City team...

Stupid thread. Both managers build their teams differently. Also we already saw what Guardiola would do with an average defence in his first season. If Mourinho had an unlimited budget he'd dominate the league since he's already done that with an unlimited pot of money with Chelsea when he first came here. Pelegrini is a bang average manager and he won the league with City. That's the power of money.

Guardiola is one of the best managers in the world, and can spend indiscriminately. Of course he's going to dominate the league. This idea that he can work magic with limited players is unfounded because he's never done it, in the one season he didn't spend a truckload he came 3rd place and didn't win a trophy.

Guardiola admitted himself that he can't implement his system without high quality players. Anyone suggesting otherwise is delusional.
 
Jericholyte2 said:
I firmly believe José would have won the CL with this City team.

I’m not saying I want him at United, I do want him gone. I’m not defending his tactics, I’m not defending his selections, not defending his transfer policy.

The truth is though especially this summer the board haven’t backed him and, frankly he’s been proven right. Sourness’s argument is completely moot though, saying he has one of the most expensive squads is all well and good when the other team is even more expensive.

Guardiola being classed as this genius, likewise, is all well and good but it’s easy to be a genius at clubs that give you absolutely everything you want.

Guardiola the coach was on display in his first season, where he couldn’t get a tune out of them. 130m on fullbacks later, all is sunny. Still keep conceding goals, how about 55m for a keeper. STILL having issues in defence, here’s another 56m for another CB - great coaching.

Simply look at the 22 who started:

Ederson - 52m De Gea - 18m
Walker - 50m. Young - 18m
Laporte - 50m. Smalling - 12m
Stones - 50m. Lindelof - 34m
Mendy - 45m. Shaw - 28m
Fernandinho - 15m. Matic - 40m
D Silva - 28m. Herrera - 24m
B Silva - 43m. Fellaini - 28m
Mahrez - 60m. Lingard - Free
Sterling - 50m. Martial - 50m
Aguero - 38m. Rashford - Free

Pep inherited three of that 11, José inherited 9 of our 11.
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This is an amazing post.

You just compared teams with City and only 2 of the 10 players we've signed for £ during the Mourinho era were in the team. Thankyou for highlighting just how poorly we've spent our money with Mourinho in charge.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
Same goes other way around. Give Pep this United and lets see how will tiki taka work with Smalling, Jones, Young and Valencia in back 4. And with Fellaini on defensive midfielder. Plus Lingard on right wing.
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This is an interesting argument.

I think if you swapped positions and provided Pep with no more than what was provided Mourinho, we would win the league.
 
Fracture90 said:
How are people that are so blindly defending Mourinho failing to notice that Guardiola had his system and tactics set up from day one, unlike Mourinho.

That system showed promise and made it easier to identify their weaknesses (GK, back line) and address them, whilst we're so shambolic it's different issues every week. One moment is defense, other is attack, then it's MF and now more recently some are even blaming GK.

Otamendi was a laughing stock back in the day, Stones was touted the next Phil Jones, Kompany was given credit but was always injury prone, Mendy's injury put a huge question mark over his him .Walker was wastly overrated yet now the same people that were tagging them labels on them are the ones drooling over those players...that's because Guardiola has improved his player's.

Yes he's had more money to spend, but them looking like his team from the get go, him constantly improving his players and his working system making it easy to identify the weaknesses is what's pushing his bosses to further invest in him. Not to mention majority of his targets are still very young and have huge room for improvement as well.

EDIT: Bar Nolito and Bravo, on whom he spent 30 million combined, who else failed and was deemed a flop? Danilo was brought to be a bench player and so was Delph and both of them played their part in last season's record breaking campaign.
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Not sure what to bold in this post because every point is spot on. And it's baffling that people refuse to see this and think City/Guardiola just threw money at their problem.
 
Jericholyte2 said:
I firmly believe José would have won the CL with this City team.

I’m not saying I want him at United, I do want him gone. I’m not defending his tactics, I’m not defending his selections, not defending his transfer policy.

The truth is though especially this summer the board haven’t backed him and, frankly he’s been proven right. Sourness’s argument is completely moot though, saying he has one of the most expensive squads is all well and good when the other team is even more expensive.

Guardiola being classed as this genius, likewise, is all well and good but it’s easy to be a genius at clubs that give you absolutely everything you want.

Guardiola the coach was on display in his first season, where he couldn’t get a tune out of them. 130m on fullbacks later, all is sunny. Still keep conceding goals, how about 55m for a keeper. STILL having issues in defence, here’s another 56m for another CB - great coaching.

Simply look at the 22 who started:

Ederson - 52m De Gea - 18m
Walker - 50m. Young - 18m
Laporte - 50m. Smalling - 12m
Stones - 50m. Lindelof - 34m
Mendy - 45m. Shaw - 28m
Fernandinho - 15m. Matic - 40m
D Silva - 28m. Herrera - 24m
B Silva - 43m. Fellaini - 28m
Mahrez - 60m. Lingard - Free
Sterling - 50m. Martial - 50m
Aguero - 38m. Rashford - Free

Pep inherited three of that 11, José inherited 9 of our 11.
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It's easy to say that, but he has signed players in this time that he has turned out to not rate or have flat out been terrible. It actually more about his scouting abilities that the old guard are still in control after so long and so much spent.
 
Fracture90 said:
How are people that are so blindly defending Mourinho failing to notice that Guardiola had his system and tactics set up from day one, unlike Mourinho.

That system showed promise and made it easier to identify their weaknesses (GK, back line) and address them, whilst we're so shambolic it's different issues every week. One moment is defense, other is attack, then it's MF and now more recently some are even blaming GK.

Otamendi was a laughing stock back in the day, Stones was touted the next Phil Jones, Kompany was given credit but was always injury prone, Mendy's injury put a huge question mark over his him .Walker was wastly overrated yet now the same people that were tagging them labels on them are the ones drooling over those players...that's because Guardiola has improved his player's.

Yes he's had more money to spend, but them looking like his team from the get go, him constantly improving his players and his working system making it easy to identify the weaknesses is what's pushing his bosses to further invest in him. Not to mention majority of his targets are still very young and have huge room for improvement as well.

EDIT: Bar Nolito and Bravo, on whom he spent 30 million combined, who else failed and was deemed a flop? Danilo was brought to be a bench player and so was Delph and both of them played their part in last season's record breaking campaign.
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The bold part in particular is something that i completely agree with. From the get-go you could see what they were trying to do. It was funny watching them at the time because they was failing badly at it, but you could see something there. Over time and with more coaching (and, of course, money spent) it started coming together. I'm not in the business of blowing smoke up his and City's arse, but it is what it is: great coaching.

That's my biggest criticism of Jose, is that we have no system. We have no style of play. That's why it's so hard to get behind him even when we win games, 'cause all the work we may done one week in winning that particular game, is completely forgotten about the next week because there's no system there which would lead to continuity. It's like the previous week never happened. We can never really build on anything.
 
BusbyMalone said:
The bold part in particular is something that i completely agree with. From the get-go you could see what they were trying to do. It was funny watching them at the time because they was failing badly at it, but you could see something there. Over time and with more coaching (and, of course, money spent) it started coming together. I'm not in the business of blowing smoke up his and City's arse, but it is what it is: great coaching.

That's my biggest criticism of Jose, is that we have no system. We have no style of play. That's why it's so hard to get behind him even when we win games, 'cause all the work we may done one week in winning that particular game, is completely forgotten about the next week because there's no system there which would lead to continuity. It's like the previous week never happened. We can never really build on anything.
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Ditto with Sarri, Emery, and Klopp. All with varying levels of highs and dips, but the intent was plain from day 1.
 
BusbyMalone said:
The bold part in particular is something that i completely agree with. From the get-go you could see what they were trying to do. It was funny watching them at the time because they was failing badly at it, but you could see something there. Over time and with more coaching (and, of course, money spent) it started coming together. I'm not in the business of blowing smoke up his and City's arse, but it is what it is: great coaching.

That's my biggest criticism of Jose, is that we have no system. We have no style of play. That's why it's so hard to get behind him even when we win games, 'cause all the work we may done one week in winning that particular game, is completely forgotten about the next week because there's no system there which would lead to continuity. It's like the previous week never happened. We can never really build on anything.
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This. I'd much sooner bring back LVG and give him 300m and a DoF to help spend the money than give Jose another 300m to build a defensive hoofball unit
 
Mourinho could have Lewandowski, Ronaldo, Messi in attack and he'd still grind out games against the likes of Derby.

He plays such ugly football where you defend like a lower league team and HOPE that you score on a set piece or the odd counter attack.

500M he's spent and his entire attacking philosophy revolves around HOPING and getting LUCKY.

If Pep, Klopp, etc were in the league sooner, he wouldn't have won titles with Chelsea. Back then, his biggest coaching rival was another dinosaur, Wenger. Now that elite coaches are in the league, he's being found out.

adexkola said:
This is an interesting argument.

I think if you swapped positions and provided Pep with no more than what was provided Mourinho, we would win the league.
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Mourinho wouldn't win at City because he spends poorly. United have given Mou 500M and look at his signings. Give Pep 500M at United and he'd make them a serious contender as well.

Pep is superior to Mou in terms of tactics, picking transfer targets, and getting the most out of them.
 
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Fracture90 said:
How are people that are so blindly defending Mourinho failing to notice that Guardiola had his system and tactics set up from day one, unlike Mourinho.

That system showed promise and made it easier to identify their weaknesses (GK, back line) and address them, whilst we're so shambolic it's different issues every week. One moment is defense, other is attack, then it's MF and now more recently some are even blaming GK.

Otamendi was a laughing stock back in the day, Stones was touted the next Phil Jones, Kompany was given credit but was always injury prone, Mendy's injury put a huge question mark over his him .Walker was wastly overrated yet now the same people that were tagging them labels on them are the ones drooling over those players...that's because Guardiola has improved his player's.

Yes he's had more money to spend, but them looking like his team from the get go, him constantly improving his players and his working system making it easy to identify the weaknesses is what's pushing his bosses to further invest in him. Not to mention majority of his targets are still very young and have huge room for improvement as well.

EDIT: Bar Nolito and Bravo, on whom he spent 30 million combined, who else failed and was deemed a flop? Danilo was brought to be a bench player and so was Delph and both of them played their part in last season's record breaking campaign.
Click to expand...

This is exactly right.
 
"If" Mouirnho was the manager at City you would have DeBruyne, Silva, B Silva, fighting for game time with Mahrez, Sane and Sterling on the wing because Mourinho would never play those guys in centre midfield. It would be Fernandinho and whomever else he brought in. GUndagon has some bulk so he would probably start, and Matic would probably be a City player as well. He also would have found a target man to replace Aguero because much like Silva, B Silva and DeBruyne, he would be considered too small to be in that position. He would have likely bought Lukaku to be his man up top and City never would be the team that they are now. One could only wish...
 
SadlerMUFC said:
"If" Mouirnho was the manager at City you would have DeBruyne, Silva, B Silva, fighting for game time with Mahrez, Sane and Sterling on the wing because Mourinho would never play those guys in centre midfield. It would be Fernandinho and whomever else he brought in. GUndagon has some bulk so he would probably start, and Matic would probably be a City player as well. He also would have found a target man to replace Aguero because much like Silva, B Silva and DeBruyne, he would be considered too small to be in that position. He would have likely bought Lukaku to be his man up top and City never would be the team that they are now. One could only wish...
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Couldn't agree more. Can't believe some people can't see this.
 
None of Pep's signings would be there,Silva would be benched for not tracking back,Aguero for a taller striker with more presence like Lukaku,sold KDB again,maybe bought Fellaini off us
 
WensleyMU said:
He wouldnt have had £500million (£350million) and his signings that didn't cut it, well he would have no choice but to use them or search around the squad for someone, just like Jose has...

But give Mourinho £600million like Peps had and the freedom to replace any player who isn't up to scratch and Jose wins just as much, maybe even more.
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How many players has Pep 'replaced'
 
Team would look very different but City would still be leading the league due to backing Jose would have received. Pep is a great manager but very few managers would struggle with that kind of financial backing.
 
RedB4ndiT said:
Mourinho could have Lewandowski, Ronaldo, Messi in attack and he'd still grind out games against the likes of Derby.

He plays such ugly football where you defend like a lower league team and HOPE that you score on a set piece or the odd counter attack.

500M he's spent and his entire attacking philosophy revolves around HOPING and getting LUCKY.

If Pep, Klopp, etc were in the league sooner, he wouldn't have won titles with Chelsea. Back then, his biggest coaching rival was another dinosaur, Wenger. Now that elite coaches are in the league, he's being found out.
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Except when he had Ronaldo and broke the La Liga scoring record.

Otherwise, solid effort for a post, much accuracy.
 
Jericholyte2 said:
I firmly believe José would have won the CL with this City team.

I’m not saying I want him at United, I do want him gone. I’m not defending his tactics, I’m not defending his selections, not defending his transfer policy.

The truth is though especially this summer the board haven’t backed him and, frankly he’s been proven right. Sourness’s argument is completely moot though, saying he has one of the most expensive squads is all well and good when the other team is even more expensive.

Guardiola being classed as this genius, likewise, is all well and good but it’s easy to be a genius at clubs that give you absolutely everything you want.

Guardiola the coach was on display in his first season, where he couldn’t get a tune out of them. 130m on fullbacks later, all is sunny. Still keep conceding goals, how about 55m for a keeper. STILL having issues in defence, here’s another 56m for another CB - great coaching.

Simply look at the 22 who started:

Ederson - 52m De Gea - 18m
Walker - 50m. Young - 18m
Laporte - 50m. Smalling - 12m
Stones - 50m. Lindelof - 34m
Mendy - 45m. Shaw - 28m
Fernandinho - 15m. Matic - 40m
D Silva - 28m. Herrera - 24m
B Silva - 43m. Fellaini - 28m
Mahrez - 60m. Lingard - Free
Sterling - 50m. Martial - 50m
Aguero - 38m. Rashford - Free

Pep inherited three of that 11, José inherited 9 of our 11.
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Don't know if other fees are correct, but Fernandinho cost £34m. I agree with the sentiment of the post though.
 
WensleyMU said:
Except when he had Ronaldo and broke the La Liga scoring record.

Otherwise, solid effort for a post, much accuracy.
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The same Ronaldo that he fell out with because of his negative boring style.
 
This is the list of player's Pep and Jose have bought since they came to Manchester. The players in bold were in the starting XI for the derby.

Pep - Mahrez, Laporte, Mendy, Stones, Walker, Sane, Silva, Ederson, Jesus, Danilo, Gundogan, Nolito, Bravo. That's not including players purchased that have been loaned out.

Jose - Pogba, Lukau, Fred, Matic, Mkhi (swap), Bailly, Lindelof, Sanchez (swap), Dalot.

Pep has spent more with City but he has also made far better transfer decisions and it reflects with how many of these players were in City's starting XI for the derby. Only Matic and Lindelof started for United, Pogba would have bar injury but it really shows how poor United have been in the market. Add to that how bad Matic has been this season and how many really don't want him in XI.
 
These type of threads are stupid. If Mourinho was in charge of City the squad would look totally different and with an unlimited budget Mourinho would build an incredible team like he did with Chelsea.
 
abdo99 said:
The same Ronaldo that he fell out with because of his negative boring style.
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Yup, same guy. Same one who said he would work with Mourinho again and considers him a great coach. In fact I believe he called him the best coach he'd ever worked under.
 
Jericholyte2 said:
I firmly believe José would have won the CL with this City team.

I’m not saying I want him at United, I do want him gone. I’m not defending his tactics, I’m not defending his selections, not defending his transfer policy.

The truth is though especially this summer the board haven’t backed him and, frankly he’s been proven right. Sourness’s argument is completely moot though, saying he has one of the most expensive squads is all well and good when the other team is even more expensive.

Guardiola being classed as this genius, likewise, is all well and good but it’s easy to be a genius at clubs that give you absolutely everything you want.

Guardiola the coach was on display in his first season, where he couldn’t get a tune out of them. 130m on fullbacks later, all is sunny. Still keep conceding goals, how about 55m for a keeper. STILL having issues in defence, here’s another 56m for another CB - great coaching.

Simply look at the 22 who started:

Ederson - 52m De Gea - 18m
Walker - 50m. Young - 18m
Laporte - 50m. Smalling - 12m
Stones - 50m. Lindelof - 34m
Mendy - 45m. Shaw - 28m
Fernandinho - 15m. Matic - 40m
D Silva - 28m. Herrera - 24m
B Silva - 43m. Fellaini - 28m
Mahrez - 60m. Lingard - Free
Sterling - 50m. Martial - 50m
Aguero - 38m. Rashford - Free

Pep inherited three of that 11, José inherited 9 of our 11.
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We can discuss the money issue all we want. The difference is City look like a team worth 500m or whatever the price of their squad is. The ROI is there, they're arguably the best team in Europe at the moment. United on the other hand look dysfunctional and with no identity. We adjust our tactics to play teams like Bournemouth & Wolves instead of imposing ourselves. We look a tier below Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool in regards to tactical consistency. How many of us really have faith that things will improve if we spend another 150 million in Jan?
 
Tom Van Persie said:
These type of threads are stupid. If Mourinho was in charge of City the squad would look totally different and with an unlimited budget Mourinho would build an incredible team like he did with Chelsea.
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Yes an unlimited budget to field a team of, Alderweireld, Maguire, Matic, Perisic, Willian, Lukaku and the likes. Very incredible team.
 
Jericholyte2 said:
I firmly believe José would have won the CL with this City team.

I’m not saying I want him at United, I do want him gone. I’m not defending his tactics, I’m not defending his selections, not defending his transfer policy.

The truth is though especially this summer the board haven’t backed him and, frankly he’s been proven right. Sourness’s argument is completely moot though, saying he has one of the most expensive squads is all well and good when the other team is even more expensive.

Guardiola being classed as this genius, likewise, is all well and good but it’s easy to be a genius at clubs that give you absolutely everything you want.

Guardiola the coach was on display in his first season, where he couldn’t get a tune out of them. 130m on fullbacks later, all is sunny. Still keep conceding goals, how about 55m for a keeper. STILL having issues in defence, here’s another 56m for another CB - great coaching.

Simply look at the 22 who started:

Ederson - 52m De Gea - 18m
Walker - 50m. Young - 18m
Laporte - 50m. Smalling - 12m
Stones - 50m. Lindelof - 34m
Mendy - 45m. Shaw - 28m
Fernandinho - 15m. Matic - 40m
D Silva - 28m. Herrera - 24m
B Silva - 43m. Fellaini - 28m
Mahrez - 60m. Lingard - Free
Sterling - 50m. Martial - 50m
Aguero - 38m. Rashford - Free

Pep inherited three of that 11, José inherited 9 of our 11.
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Lets not prettend this is a City vs poor team discussion, we have spend as well. We have the highest wage in the league.

Mourinho inhereted 9 of our 11 last starters but has bought the following:

Pogba - 105m
Lukaku -84.7m
Fred - 59m
Matic - 44.7m
Mkhitaryan/Alexis -42m
Bailly -38m
Lindelof -35m
Dalot-22m
Grant -1.7m

For those prices I would expect everyone of those to be in the starting XI except Grant. So he should have 2 inhereted players out of 11 playing, including he inherited a world class keeper in De Gea.

The difference is that Pep has spend 400m in players and they play like a 400m team. We have spend 430m and play like a 100m team.

People talk about City spending as if it was a crime and minimize their success, yes he has spent loads and loads of money but they play like it. They don't only win games, but they play attractive football and dominate.

We may have not spend as much, but we play shitty football, scratching for results and are not even close to competing for titles.
 
reddevil702 said:
We can discuss the money issue all we want. The difference is City look like a team worth 500m or whatever the price of their squad is. The ROI is there, they're arguably the best team in Europe at the moment. United on the other hand look dysfunctional and with no identity. We adjust our tactics to play teams like Bournemouth & Wolves instead of imposing ourselves. We look a tier below Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool in regards to tactical consistency. How many of us really have faith that things will improve if we spend another 150 million in Jan?
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That's just it. It's not about how much money is spent. It's how it's spent and how those players are put out on the field. If Mourinho had things his way we would have Perisic and Willian and we wouldn't look any different. We would also lose our best attacking player in Martial because he would be surplus with the others coming in. He would have brought in Maguire for over 50m when we could have bought him the year before for a fraction of that price. He moans because he didn't get the defensive reinforements he wanted, but he has already bought two central defenders in 2 years. If I was on the board I wouldn't give him money for that either. We already have Jones, Smalling, Bailley, Lindeloff and Rojo on the books as central defenders. The only way I would give him money is if he sold some of them. Bottom line is we have a lot of talent on our team. It's our game plan that is fecked up. We sit back and don't put any pressure on our opponent and just let them pick us apart. We could have the best defenders in the world on our team and the result wouldn't change when we play like that. Mourinho has to go....the thing that amazes me is that over the past week the poll on the "Mouinho out" thread is under 70% to fire him for the first time since the poll started. So that means that more and more people are satisfied with the job he is doing. Sure, we've had a couple of come back wins, but we shouldn't have to come back to win in the first place. Play on the front foot right from the beginning and people will be happy. I'd rather see us finish in 4th and be playing the way that Manchester United is meant to play and be moving in the right direction than have another year like last year where we finish 2nd and play like shite and have no identity...
 
SAFMUTD said:
Lets not prettend this is a City vs poor team discussion, we have spend as well. We have the highest wage in the league.

Mourinho inhereted 9 of our 11 last starters but has bought the following:

Pogba - 105m
Lukaku -84.7m
Fred - 59m
Matic - 44.7m
Mkhitaryan/Alexis -42m
Bailly -38m
Lindelof -35m
Dalot-22m
Grant -1.7m

For those prices I would expect everyone of those to be in the starting XI except Grant. So he should have 2 inhereted players out of 11 playing, including he inherited a world class keeper in De Gea.

The difference is that Pep has spend 400m in players and they play like a 400m team. We have spend 430m and play like a 100m team.

People talk about City spending as if it was a crime and minimize their success, yes he has spent loads and loads of money but they play like it. They don't only win games, but they play attractive football and dominate.

We may have not spend as much, but we play shitty football, scratching for results and are not even close to competing for titles.
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What currency is that? Those prices are all higher than I remember.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
Same goes other way around. Give Pep this United and lets see how will tiki taka work with Smalling, Jones, Young and Valencia in back 4. And with Fellaini on defensive midfielder. Plus Lingard on right wing.
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And José's wanted signings would change that how? Alderweireld and Maguire would make us play ball?
 
I think City would remain successful because they have a structure now in place. If they wanted Mourinho, it appears they would have hired a director of football, as well as sign players, who are aligned to the Mourinho's style of football. We've instead hired our managers haphazardly, we've signed our players haphazardly and we've sold our players haphazardly.

The dominating theme is that throughout the club, with regards to football performance, we have been mismanaged and ended up with a midtable squad. Many people are at fault, including the players who themselves at times, have let standards slip. The solution is quite simple, recongized by all fans - an overhaul of structure is necessary. However, the board and management must recognize there exists a problem in the first place.

Unfortunately, the only evidence we have when a problem exists, according to the view of board and management, is failure to qualify for the Champions League. Otherwise the business generates a huge amount of money for the owners and therefore there is no impetus to change the way it is run. It is therefore quite obvious that we will never again have any sustained period of prosperity until this ethos of "CL football is good enough" is challenged. The best we can hope for now is one hit wonder seasons, similar to Liverpool with Suarez, and Conte with Chelsea.
 
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