Is it fair to worship Guardiola at this point? | The Ball Did It

[sammsky1]

And spending half a billion had nothing to do with it? He buys a keeper for a hefty sum and then ditches him after a year for another keeper.

Mendy gets injured and his immediate response is we need to sign a lb. There is nothing wrong with being a cheque book manager but I wish his supporters will admit it rather than peddling this myth that he requires time to implement his ideals into existing players.

Totally agree with this.

I don’t rate Guardiola one bit, given the funds and support structure he has had. His City team may now be playing some nifty football, but I reckon a group of players this talented could do that without too much managerial instruction.

If city win trophies this season, they belong to the Sheiks for their unprecedented investment. Pep is just a puppet enabler of that process.

 

[Cristiano Lell]

People embarrassing themselves on a mass scale

 

[Ban]

There's always a Bayern fan or two to defend him here I see.

Of course Ajax and Barcelona fans too.

 

[2ndTouch]

Mendy gets injured and his immediate response is we need to sign a lb. There is nothing wrong with being a cheque book manager but I wish his supporters will admit it rather than peddling this myth that he requires time to implement his ideals into existing players.

Considering the spending record of your very own manager, it'd be a weird thing to harp on anyways

 

[serghei]

Love or hate Pep, when he is at it and has the right players and they are well integrated, he still plays the best football in the world. Even the United fans know it.

 

[NoLogo]

Love or hate Pep, when he is at it and has the right players and they are well integrated, he still plays the best football in the world. Even the United fans know it.

In before people claim passing is boring.

 

[krazyrobus]

Love or hate Pep, when he is at it and has the right players and they are well integrated, he still plays the best football in the world. Even the United fans know it.

Agreed, went to the bridge and played Chelsea off the park. They were like a locust infection in their pressing. Mou is going to have sleepless nights thinking about how to play against them.

Last season, destroyed us at home, with Zlatan papering over the cracks.

Ederson barely did anything.

 

[do.ob]

This "his players are so strong, they don't need any coaching to steam roll opponents" falls a bit short when you look at the actual squad vs Chelsea:
Three kids upfront, Delph at LB, Stones (worst CB in the world, or so I've read on the caf) and Nicolas "dodged a bullet there" Otamendi at CB.
I reckon de Bruyne and Silva (maybe Walker, to a lesser extend) are the only well established top class players in that line up.

 

[Mister_Stubbs]

The bald bloke takes cheque book managing to a whole new level.

 

[Lay]

Some people will never give Pep credit. He’s doing a great job this season and City look currently a formidable side.

Him being a ‘cheque book’ manager is a ridiculous slight to put against him. He identified weaknesses in the side and like any progressive manager, spent money to rectify it.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

And spending half a billion had nothing to do with it? He buys a keeper for a hefty sum and then ditches him after a year for another keeper.

Mendy gets injured and his immediate response is we need to sign a lb. There is nothing wrong with being a cheque book manager but I wish his supporters will admit it rather than peddling this myth that he requires time to implement his ideals into existing players.

Jose does the same. I suppose all he does is spend money as well. The team wins stuff on its own thereafter.

 

[Lay]

And spending half a billion had nothing to do with it? He buys a keeper for a hefty sum and then ditches him after a year for another keeper.

Mendy gets injured and his immediate response is we need to sign a lb. There is nothing wrong with being a cheque book manager but I wish his supporters will admit it rather than peddling this myth that he requires time to implement his ideals into existing players.

Signing a goalkeeper then realising he’s not good enough and replacing him isn’t a bad thing is it? Managers like Klopp can take something from that.

 

[prtk0811]

Agreed, went to the bridge and played Chelsea off the park. They were like a locust infection in their pressing. Mou is going to have sleepless nights thinking about how to play against them.

Last season, destroyed us at home, with Zlatan papering over the cracks.

Ederson barely did anything.

We are completely capable of turning on the screws ourselves like we did to chelsea at home. The template is all there when it comes to playing against top sides, but it does depend a lot on mourinho how he chooses to depending on the situation of the table, injuries, and the european campaign in midweek of what needs to be done.

Even liverpool away last season we were lacking the creativity balance and energy in the final third but we played at the same intensity and drive up until the rashford injury.

We are unpredictable which is our biggest asset. We can press high ourselves uptil the very top with the likes of rashford and lukaku and in the middle with herrera and fellani. We can create and hold the ball with Mkh and mata martial rashford and matic. And are surely dominant aerially in both the boxes. Or if mourinho decides to absorb the pressure and counter attack we are capable of doing it as well but that side of our game needs more work and efficiency though i will admit.

We have got all the tools It comes down to the intent and mourinho's reading of the situation of the fixture in aspect to importance in title campaign.

Last season was a totally different situation as mourinho was bedding in and was not sure of his strongest selection , balance and capabilities of the new squad he inherited.

 

[Varun]

Jose does the same. I suppose all he does is spend money as well. The team wins stuff on its own thereafter.

He's not said the team wins stuff on its own after the spending though. That's sammsky's post.

Pep does have this image of being someone who turns players/squads into world beaters with his coaching while the likes of Mourinho are seen as managers who spend to win. I agree with @MJJ, it's a very inaccurate way to describe them. They're both managers who are good at identifying areas of improvement, spend a lot to do that and are then very good at making a quality team out of it.

That's a top quality btw because you can give the same funds to someone else and he'd not come anywhere close but this myth about Pep just improving teams with his coaching while ignoring the massive spending he does to get a quality squad in the first place e is a bit weird to say the least.

 

[finneh]

So if you want you manager more equipped at adapting to situations and doing what it takes depending on the personnel and environment, Mourinho is the better bet. If you want something more special, albeit, that is more risky and might require more time and resources, Pep is clearly the best around.

Has Guardiola created anything particularly special outside of the Barcelona team he inherited? I certainly didn't see anything particularly special during his Bayern tenure or last season with City.

 

[prtk0811]

Considering the spending record of your very own manager, it'd be a weird thing to harp on anyways

Well we are all aware of that, but the selective bashing and praises of certain managers needs to be exposed as well.

 

[barmyarmy]

Jose does the same. I suppose all he does is spend money as well. The team wins stuff on its own thereafter.

Not to the extent as pep not talking about Jose record at his earlier clubs but at United he is been spot on. Jose didn't sell fellaini, lingard, a. young actually they improved under him even & all of them have done well whenever called upon. They all will be squad players at other top 6 clubs at most yet they are playing regularly and making telling contribution in our team.
Rashford was played regularly even though for most of last season he wasn't good. Rojo who many considered not even as a squad player was a beast last season. Pep all he did at city was to replace all his ageing player & a promising youngster to come in Ilhenacho (he cant even make it at leicester that's another discussion though).

 

[TheRedHearted]

Jose does the same. I suppose all he does is spend money as well. The team wins stuff on its own thereafter.

Cept Jose wasn't able to buy a winger and didn't seem to go after any fullbacks sadly.

 

[Manchester Dan]

Totally agree with this.

I don’t rate Guardiola one bit, given the funds and support structure he has had. His City team may now be playing some nifty football, but I reckon a group of players this talented could do that without too much managerial instruction.

If city win trophies this season, they belong to the Sheiks for their unprecedented investment. Pep is just a puppet enabler of that process.

Would you swap your back 5 for Delph, Stones, Otamendi, Walker and Ederson? Would you swap Matic for Fernandinho? Would you take Jesus over Lukaku? I read how you're just as strong on here frequently. This team isn't flawless, but they're playing some fantastic stuff and between the pressing, movement and passing it's not hard to see Peps influence.

Out of interest, do you rate Mourinho? You know, given the funds he's had since joining. Your players shouldn't need too much managerial instruction. Or something.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

He's not said the team wins stuff on its own after the spending though. That's sammsky's post.

Pep does have this image of being someone who turns players/squads into world beaters with his coaching while the likes of Mourinho are seen as managers who spend to win. I agree with @MJJ, it's a very inaccurate way to describe them. They're both managers who are good at identifying areas of improvement, spend a lot to do that and are then very good at making a quality team out of it.

That's a top quality btw because you can give the same funds to someone else and he'd not come anywhere close but this myth about Pep just improving teams with his coaching while ignoring the massive spending he does to get a quality squad in the first place e is a bit weird to say the least.

I agree with all of that but I'm not sure where this myth comes from. We seem to have a myth about that really. I see hundred people go on and on about this "chequebook manager" (when we have a similar one) nonsense to like probably one random bloke who talks about this so called myth.

In fact I see more stuff about Jose and his tactical genius with 'limitations', if anything.

The objectivity with respect to pep just isn't there. Understandable given be manages City but worth pointing out all the same.

Cept Jose wasn't able to buy a winger and didn't seem to go after any fullbacks sadly.

That's Jose's problem. Woodward gives our managers a near free reign to spend. He chose to go after an alright player that wasn't easy to get. Which LB did he go after? Mendy?

They're both terrific who need to spend big to succeed. But they're also both very strong tactically. There's really no need to belittle either in this repsect as neither is weak tactically and neither is successful without spending.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Not to the extent as pep not talking about Jose record at his earlier clubs but at United he is been spot on. Jose didn't sell fellaini, lingard, a. young actually they improved under him even & all of them have done well whenever called upon. They all will be squad players at other top 6 clubs at most yet they are playing regularly and making telling contribution in our team.
Rashford was played regularly even though for most of last season he wasn't good. Rojo who many considered not even as a squad player was a beast last season. Pep all he did at city was to replace all his ageing player & a promising youngster to come in Ilhenacho (he cant even make it at leicester that's another discussion though).

Yeah let's just ignore that Jose also spends 100 million every summer. But because he spends 25 million he has some invisible high moral ground to look down upon Pep from. Seriously, you guys are trying too hard to big up our manager and trash theirs. I get it. He manages City.

Didn't Delph look good too? Like young he was called on (in a huge game) and did the job. I'm not sure what point your making. Both teams will need their squad players to perform.

 

[prtk0811]

That's Jose's problem. Woodward gives our managers a near free reign to spend. He chose to go after an alright player that wasn't easy to get. Which LB did he go after? Mendy?

I doubt that, We have huge budget but we have spending limitations as far as one window is concerned. I guess that's the reason of us not getting creative winger required for the right hand side to bring the right balance. And we can not get it all in one window, as their is more stability in our management and we have time to build on something.

Pep does not have time, or even if he does he is self timebound. Without suceess he is going to leave for sure to another richie rich required for his template. Pep is not flexible at all unlike Mourinho.

 

[prtk0811]

Yeah let's just ignore that Jose also spends 100 million every summer. But because he spends 25 million he has some invisible high moral ground to look down upon Pep from. Seriously, you guys are trying too hard to big up our manager and trash theirs. I get it. He manages City.

Didn't Delph look good too? Like young he was called on (in a huge game) and did the job. I'm not sure what point your making. Both teams will need their squad players to perform.

This issue will soon be sorted out in the comming periods of their career with Mourinho looking for stability and Pep on the other hand looking for instant success at every club he goes. Pep is built for the richie richs of the world, pretty sure his next job could well be the Psg side who have already built a template and the pieces for domination in a certain way.

Jose on the other hand has clawed his way to the top with the likes porto and 2004 chelsea and inter milan and is pretty much flexible and capable of taking any smaller club to new heights.

 

[Varun]

I agree with all of that but I'm not sure where this myth comes from. We seem to have a myth about that really. I see hundred people go on and on about this "chequebook manager" (when we have a similar one) nonsense to like probably one random bloke who talks about this so called myth.

In fact I see more stuff about Jose and his tactical genius with 'limitations', if anything.

The objectivity with respect to pep just isn't there. Understandable given be manages City but worth pointing out all the same.


That's Jose's problem. Woodward gives our managers a near free reign to spend. He chose to go after an alright player that wasn't easy to get. Which LB did he go after? Mendy?

They're both terrific who need to spend big to succeed. But they're also both very strong tactically. There's really no need to belittle either in this repsect as neither is weak tactically and neither is successful without spending.

Mythception!

I wasn't referring to the Caf majority really, you won't get too many posts with over the top praise for Pep here for obvious reasons. Was more about how certain parts of the media and some Barca/Bayern fans here paint his picture.

 

[Josep Dowling]

I will reserve my judgement until the end of the season. They have started incredibly well and playing good football. However the season is only 7 games in, there is a long way to go yet.

I could be wrong but Chelsea were very poor yesterday and then lost their main striker. Chelsea performance could have been down to how City pressed but City will not be able to press like that all season, especially round Christmas when the games start to mount up. It's such an intense style for the players to keep up for an entire season. The difference now is he has a bench of £40m-£50m players to bring on for rotation.

Fascinating season already. We haven't exactly had a test yet but it feels like the footballing 'purist' vs anti football coach (ironic considering how many times we have scored 4 already). Hopefully this season the pantomime devils win

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Yeah, barring a KdB wonder-strike they'd have had a 0-0 draw against an awful, tired Chelsea side who had no striker on the pitch.

Same hype, different season.

 

[Adisa]

Yeah, barring a KdB wonder-strike they'd have had a 0-0 draw against an awful, tired Chelsea side who had no striker on the pitch.

Same hype, different season.

That's very disingenuous.
I doubt we'd have played as well against the same side.

 

[Adisa]

Very impressive yesterday. Their game against Shaktar wasn't a walk in the park and they were missing two key players going into the game.

 

[prtk0811]

That's very disingenuous.
I doubt we'd have played as well against the same side.

We did last season at home though, although one needs to mention our team is still unbalanced on the right hand side.

 

[antihenry]

He's a top quality manager, no question about it. If you give him the players he wants, he'll get them playing his style of football and eventually, win things. But I doubt he can adapt and adjust to the situations where he either doesn't have the best team in the league already (Barca, Bayern) or spends more money than anybody else to assemble such team (City). I cannot see Pep winning PL title with Ranieri's Leicester.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Because it takes time to get a full team playing like this when you do it from the scratch. At Barcelona and Bayern he already had teams that were build on a similar concept when he came in - not at City.

I'm gonna say the half a billion spend helped.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Jose does the same. I suppose all he does is spend money as well. The team wins stuff on its own thereafter.

Jose won the CL with Porto and took a shit United team to two trophies last season. His flexibility means that yes, like any manager, he's better the more money he spends, but he can also do some great things without having a great team.

As fantastic as Guardiola is once he gets an extremely talented squad, his brand of football and inflexibility mean he can't win without spending an insane amount.

At this point Pep looks like he was a great bet for City based on the half a billion of talent they have backed him with, and the performances they are now being rewarded with, but I'll hold off on too many plaudits until the end of the season in the PL and CL.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Jose won the CL with Porto and took a shit United team to two trophies last season. His flexibility means that yes, like any manager, he's better the more money he spends, but he can also do some great things without having a great team.

As fantastic as Guardiola is once he gets an extremely talented squad, his brand of football and inflexibility mean he can't win without spending an insane amount.

Rubbish. We finished 6th in league and won the league cup and Europa league. That's just about an acceptable season given we finished 4th and level with 4th the previous two seasons and then spend another 150 million. It's really not worth championing so much.

Guardiola can't win without spending? He entered football managing Barcelona. How exactly is he supposed to not spend now? Should he manage arsenal just to please you and clear your doubts?

Mourinho only really took a non big team to success at Porto. At every other club he's either had enormous resources (Chelsea, United) or an already excellent team (Inter). Same as Pep. Great resources with a great manager leading to great success. Porto is the only difference. I don't know why pep should manage a Porto just for the sake of it. And even then no chance Jose or Pep is winning the CL today with Porto. While that Porto had some excellent players the CL was a much weaker competition back then.

 

[adz_87]

Totally agree with this.

I don’t rate Guardiola one bit, given the funds and support structure he has had. His City team may now be playing some nifty football, but I reckon a group of players this talented could do that without too much managerial instruction.

If city win trophies this season, they belong to the Sheiks for their unprecedented investment. Pep is just a puppet enabler of that process.

This post is embarrassing.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Rubbish. We finished 6th in league and won the league cup and Europa league. That's just about an acceptable season given we finished 4th and level with 4th the previous two seasons and then spend another 150 million. It's really not worth championing so much.

Guardiola can't win without spending? He entered football managing Barcelona. How exactly is he supposed to not spend now? Should he manage arsenal just to please you and clear your doubts?

Mourinho only really took a non big team to success at Porto. At every other club he's either had enormous resources (Chelsea, United) or an already excellent team (Inter). Same as Pep. Great resources with a great manager leading to great success. Porto is the only difference. I don't know why pep should manage a Porto just for the sake of it. And even then no chance Jose is winning the CL today with Porto. While that Porto had some excellent players the CL was a much weaker competition back then.

You sound like a City fan.

Or at least a Guardiola fan in turmoil.

José at Utd - 3 trophies

Guardiola at City - 0 trophies

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Guardiola can't win without spending? He entered football managing Barcelona. How exactly is he supposed to not spend now? Should he manage arsenal just to please you and clear your doubts?.

He had an opportunity to prove it last season, he inherited a decent side, spent a fair bit and they were shite. He ended the season with nothing.

Spending another 250m quid or whatever it was to then get his team to play nice Pep football is great and all, but it also shows a lack of inflexibility, as does his recent response to Mendy's injury.

 

[MJJ]

Considering the spending record of your very own manager, it'd be a weird thing to harp on anyways

So why bring mourinho up when it's a discussion about Pep?

Jose does the same. I suppose all he does is spend money as well. The team wins stuff on its own thereafter.

That has nothing to do with my post but okay?

Signing a goalkeeper then realising he’s not good enough and replacing him isn’t a bad thing is it? Managers like Klopp can take something from that.

It's a very effective way to run a big club where money isn't an issue but it goes against his reputation of being somebody who doesn't need money to succeed and makes the team better/smarter and gives youth a chance.

He's not said the team wins stuff on its own after the spending though. That's sammsky's post.

Pep does have this image of being someone who turns players/squads into world beaters with his coaching while the likes of Mourinho are seen as managers who spend to win. I agree with @MJJ, it's a very inaccurate way to describe them. They're both managers who are good at identifying areas of improvement, spend a lot to do that and are then very good at making a quality team out of it.

That's a top quality btw because you can give the same funds to someone else and he'd not come anywhere close but this myth about Pep just improving teams with his coaching while ignoring the massive spending he does to get a quality squad in the first place e is a bit weird to say the least.

Agreed, pep's supporters are very sensitive and seem to think its a bad thing. One of mourinho best quality is that he knows how to identify a good player and if you give him money it generally pays off. Pep is proving that he has the same quality. His team generally play the best football but he does require money to implement it whereas other managers like simeone, jardim and even mourinho can get more of lesser players.

Doesn't make one group better than the other but Pep has a false rep of belonging to the latte group.

 

[prtk0811]

Rubbish. We finished 6th in league and won the league cup and Europa league. That's just about an acceptable season given we finished 4th and level with 4th the previous two seasons and then spend another 150 million. It's really not worth championing so much.

Guardiola can't win without spending? He entered football managing Barcelona. How exactly is he supposed to not spend now? Should he manage arsenal just to please you and clear your doubts?

Mourinho only really took a non big team to success at Porto. At every other club he's either had enormous resources (Chelsea, United) or an already excellent team (Inter). Same as Pep. Great resources with a great manager leading to great success. Porto is the only difference. I don't know why pep should manage a Porto just for the sake of it. And even then no chance Jose or Pep is winning the CL today with Porto. While that Porto had some excellent players the CL was a much weaker competition back then.

Its september though, and nither us or pep has won anything yet. Okay Chelsea were poor yesterday but it was just one goal in the end which was a brilliant individual goal rather than a team goal.

 

[serghei]

Its september though, and nither us or pep has won anything yet. Okay Chelsea were poor yesterday but it was just one goal in the end which was a brilliant individual goal rather than a team goal.

It was both really.

Pep improves players. That much is clear. But the player needs to have some solid foundations. Needs to pass well, move well, and be willing to work hard to develop his skills the way Pep needs him to.

I don't think Pep supporters say he raises mediocre players to world class status. He usually improves players, even if it means taking them from a great level to an even greater one.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

While that Porto had some excellent players the CL was a much weaker competition back then.

That's why SAF managed to only win it twice in his 20 odds years then. And why no team, until last year ever retained it.

Strange that is finally got retained when
it apparently is much stronger now.