Is Lindelof good enough for United?

We often quick to judge the players on the performance of one game, be it good or bad but one thing I have come to realise looking at the football played most of the time by our team, what they are doing is following the instructions of the manager.
I personally like Lindelof as a CB, he is calm on the ball, quick to get back and can read the game well but often a CB is also defined by the partner he is playing with. Most the time he is stuck next to Smalling who has an accident in him every game, who nearly shits himself when he is on the ball. These insecurities transfer to his partner and don't bring stability to the CB's partnership. When Smalling played next to Blind who is very calm, reads the game well and doesn't get flustered, we got to see Mike Smalling more often than the usual Chris Smalling.
 
Much better second half of the season compared to first half. He seems a lot more composed on the ball than Smalling or Jones and he doesn't need to take 3 steps back to play the ball unlike Mike !!

He is 23 and I would not expect him to be the finished article at this age, especially for a CB. Our best CB pairings have come with experienced players Vida + Rio, Jaap Stam + Ronny Johnsen, Bruce and Pally all 28,29,30 before they hit their peak with us.. He looks to have decent pace and strength and good composure one on one. It's all there for him to succeed, could maybe do with a bit more aggression to his game but thats personal preference. I don't think it's fair to judge him now, let's give him another two years like we have with Shaw before we write the lad off.
 
Crashoutcassius said:
Depends who is available. Either way we need lots of cb so he will stay. Has been terrible so fat but early days especially for a cb
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Agree the first part in the second sentence but I think he looks to be in good general shape.

:angel:
 
He is just ok for me. His body language for a defender is very subdued. I have grown up seeing the likes of stam, Rio, Vidic who all have been more vocal and lead their backline. Lindelof looks like another blind but just that I like blind more. So for me unless he drastically improves, not sure if he can be that great.
 
AshRK said:
He is just ok for me. His body language for a defender is very subdued. I have grown up seeing the likes of stam, Rio, Vidic who all have been more vocal and lead their backline. Lindelof looks like another blind but just that I like blind more. So for me unless he drastically improves, not sure if he can be that great.
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He'll develop that as he matures, I'm excited to see him at the World Cup with Sweden as he's touted to be the new National Team captain soon and you don't get that unless you're a vocal leader. Coming to United and telling the likes of Pogba and Matic what to do must be an intimidating experience for anyone.
 
crossy1686 said:
He'll develop that as he matures, I'm excited to see him at the World Cup with Sweden as he's touted to be the new National Team captain soon and you don't get that unless you're a vocal leader. Coming to United and telling the likes of Pogba and Matic what to do must be an intimidating experience for anyone.
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I would be really to see him develop and become a worldie. And I really agree the WC will provide a good indication of how good he is. A good ac could kick start his career again.
 
For the price we paid I was expecting a ready made centre back to jump strait into the team. He’s not done one thing that makes him stand out over smalling or jones. He’s just another Rojo.

He deserves another season and if there’s no improvement then move him on, Personally I don’t think he’s good enough for united and more suited to the Newcastle’s/Watford’s etc
 
dannyrhinos89 said:
For the price we paid I was expecting a ready made centre back to jump strait into the team. He’s not done one thing that makes him stand out over smalling or jones. He’s just another Rojo.

He deserves another season and if there’s no improvement then move him on, Personally I don’t think he’s good enough for united and more suited to the Newcastle’s/Watford’s etc
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Pretty sure the price had something to do with Benfica refusing to let one of their prize assets go and Vasteras kicking up a fuss saying they were entitled to 15%. None of that is his fault and he's still only 23.
 
Im still willing to give him time and that. One thing that worries me is that i dont see anything particullary good in his game. When Vidic first came we knew he would be good in the air, good at physicall battles etc. But Lindeloff? His positioning is poor, 1 on 1 is poor, poor in the air, decent passing...nothing special in his game. Frankly, Rojo is poor on the ball but at least he is a beast when he defends.
 
Lindelöf has been fine in recent games, after a nervous start to his United career - and you get a sense that he's growing bit by bit and gaining confidence - with that will come more authoritative displays and, hopefully, more proactive distribution from the back (something we haven't always seen thus far, though that could be down to instruction as well). I dunno what was expected of someone who played less than 80 first team games for Benfica before signing for United, anyway - he was always going to be a work in progress type of player - someone who would maybe become a good defender in due time, as opposed to delivering at a high level right off the bat. Not every young centerback's talent is apparent from the get go à la De Ligt, and some take till their mid 20s to settle at a consistently good level or develop a signature style (e.g. de Vrij is now 26 years old - and probably ready for his first major move after developing at Lazio, and for all the plaudits he's earned - Christensen has kinda gone off the boil at Chelsea after a good start under Conte). That applies especially to those that don't have immense physical gifts and are more “thinking man's” defenders as regards their approach, so maybe we should reserve judgement till the second half of next season. Or, in case we sign Alderweireld, send Victor on loan so he can develop with regular first team football - he needs to play as many matches as possible to fine-tune his game and grow in stature as an organizer.
 
prath92 said:
He is good imo. Yesterday multiple times he brought the ball out from the back. Him and Toby alderweireld could be a good combo imo
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If I'm not mistaken he made two long runs down the middle with the ball and lost the ball each time yesterday. I think, though, he has improved a great deal this year and think he has a solid future here. I can see him being our 3rd best CB for many years. Bailly will be no. 1.
 
Jacob said:
We've condeded the least amount of goals in the PL. I'm sure we can win it with this current backline.
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But it's not just about the number of goals that we"ve conceded....Our Centre backs are very very poor with the ball at their feet,and it takes them 5 passes to even take the ball 20 yards ahead.If we had defenders who could actually pass the ball we can make the transition from the back to the middle much much quicker,and that would improve the quality if our game considerably...
 
podurban2 said:
How are those two things linked? We were never going to sell Lindelof after one season.
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Not once did I say that we should sell him....The question was do we give him another season to become our "ball playing" CB,or do we sign a new CB.If we sign a new CB then the new CB will play alongside Bailly and it will seriously hurt Lindelofs chances of establishing himself in the team...So a new signing will hamper Lindelof,just like signing Sanchez has effectively frozen Martial out of the first team....
 
dannyrhinos89 said:
For the price we paid I was expecting a ready made centre back to jump strait into the team. He’s not done one thing that makes him stand out over smalling or jones. He’s just another Rojo.

He deserves another season and if there’s no improvement then move him on, Personally I don’t think he’s good enough for united and more suited to the Newcastle’s/Watford’s etc
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Felt the same initially. But we have to be fair in comparing with the likes of VanDijk going for twice what Lindelof cost, that seems to be the price for plug and play. Crazy prices.
 
Still willing to give him some time as i think he is improving. Him and Phil Jones could be a good partnership if we are looking for two CB's who can also pass out from the back. They're both decent at this. Certainly better than Smalling whose distribution is garbage.

Still makes the odd mistake now and then which isn't great, but hopefully will come good next season.
 
Nikelesh Reddy said:
Not once did I say that we should sell him....The question was do we give him another season to become our "ball playing" CB,or do we sign a new CB.If we sign a new CB then the new CB will play alongside Bailly and it will seriously hurt Lindelofs chances of establishing himself in the team...So a new signing will hamper a Lindelof,just like signing Sanchez has effectively frozen Martial out of the first team....
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That's not really how it works. We have 5 CBs who are interchangeable based on form and availability. Lindelof is a part of that.

Also, he was being praised not too long ago here - https://www.redcafe.net/threads/fairplay-to-lindelof-starting-to-look-the-part-now.434121/
 
Good on the ball, but thats it. Of character he has seemed nervous - I dont think he has the mentality to make it here to be honest.

Im not as optimistic as others, and Id rather keep Jones in case we get Alderweireld (2 players in each position)
 
Henrik Larsson said:
Wait, he was MOTM yesterday after letting Mkhi score that goal between his legs?

Very occasionally I've seen him do something good, but usually it's a tad unconvincing. Not sure if he's been better at CB than Blind, who had some massive flaws in his game by the way.

Also, playing Blind at CB for a season did improve our build up and he would play some lovely long passes from the LCB role. Yet that season we also finished with the lowest amount of goals scored since god knows when and Van Gaal fired for losing out to City on goal difference and stiffling all creativity. This leads to the question of how important a good ball playing CB really is, it seems to be taken for granted, but the Blind experiment suggests that it's much more complex...
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I was surprised too....How was he MOTM??
 
Camilo said:
I like him - I think alongside Jones, Smalling and Bailly we have a cracking bunch. Expecting our defenders to play splitting balls out form the back and make game changing runs from deep when Pogba and Matic struggle to do that from midfield is just silly though imo. Plus you've usually got one or both of Matic and Herrera picking the ball up from deep...

It's more a setup thing than anything else - Jose has to trust him for anyone to see if he's good enough. For me, he passes nicely and can be very neat and tidy. He always has more time on the ball than Smalling. I reckon he'll do well here.
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Nobody expects the centre backs to "play splitting balls and make game changing runs",that's just silly.But we expect them to have the belief to take the ball in tight spaces and find the DM with one good pass...We expect them to quickly move the ball on,not dilly dally with the ball for 2 mins and then pass it back to the GK....
 
Nikelesh Reddy said:
Nobody expects the centre backs to "play splitting balls and make game changing runs",that's just silly.But we expect them to have the belief to take the ball in tight spaces and find the DM with one good pass...We expect them to quickly move the ball on,not dilly dally with the ball for 2 mins and then pass it back to the GK....
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Who is we ? The players are playing in a way how Mourinho coaches them to play.
 
Raoul said:
Who is we ? The players are playing in a way how Mourinho coaches them to play.
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Really not sure about this....Jose was moaning 2 weeks ago about the "lack of courage and quality of the defenders to pass the ball forward"(think it was after the City game)...I"m sure that Jose doesn't tell Smalling and Co to dilly dally with sideways passes for 2 minutes,and then go back to the GK.,.He wants good passers at the back,that's why he signed Lindelof...
 
Nikelesh Reddy said:
Really not sure about this....Jose was moaning 2 weeks ago about the "lack of courage and quality of the defenders to pass the ball forward"(think it was after the City game)...I"m sure that Jose doesn't tell Smalling and Co to dilly dally with sideways passes for 2 minutes,and then go back to the GK.,.He wants good passers at the back,that's why he signed Lindelof...
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Ultimately the players are going to play according to how they are instructed in training and before matches. They have been at this long enough to know that improvising in contradiction to what they have been instructed won't go over well.
 
MadDogg said:
I wouldn't say it was for no reason. Pushing up the field and drawing the midfielders to him is actually quite good, as it should in theory create openings for our other players to move into. Of course, passing it straight to an Arsenal player created a dangerous position for us. So the thought was good and I'd quite like to see more of it when the time is right, but the execution needs to improve.
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Pushing up the field with a purpose and with the aim of committing the opposition to you is one thing, ambling aimlessly up the pitch under no pressure, not committing anyone, then passing the ball to the other team despite being stood about 3 metres away from your own midfielders, is another.

The problem is it's one of these things where if you showed me a clip from too far away to identify which player it was, I would still know it was Lindelof, because it's just the sort of thing he does, and the hesitant lack of confidence he does it with is quite distinguishable.

I don't hold out much hope for him at this point really, though if he proves me wrong fair play. Usually when a player needs time to settle though, you can see the qualities they have, but they just don't translate it into consistently good performances. I still watch Lindelof wondering what his qualities are actually supposed to be.

He has an ability, like a few of our other players (most of whom seem to play at left back), to turn any situation in a game into a problem. He's had the odd solid game, like yesterday where I thought he was ok overall, but never a game or run of games that's given me any real sense of confidence in him, or where I've thought "so that's what he's good at".

The only thing I would say is that a lot of our defenders come under this category, for one reason or another.
 
OnlyTwoDaSilvas said:
He's had a better 2nd half of the season than he did in the 1st. Still far from convinced, but he's gone from looking a bit hopeless to somewhere close to adequate.

He still doesn't strike me as a ball playing centre back though, as he has been billed. Some of his passing yesterday was a bit wayward. He's not the most commanding of centre backs either, and right now he just seems to be somewhere in the middle, "can do a job" but doesn't seem to particularly excel at anything.

He was quite expensive for a relatively unknown entity. I don't believe he was brought in with the intention of being a squad player, but I'm yet to see anything that makes him more than that.

Next season will be big for all of our CB options, as I can't see us buying another unless a couple leave. Smalling is continually very unpopular, but the rest of the crop need to be proving why they should be starting ahead of him, as none of them have done so as yet.
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I agree with you.
 
Not very impressed by him. Lacks conviction. Give him another year but don't pin your hopes on him. Right now I'd have Smalling, Bailly and Jones all ahead of him.
 
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I'm often too quick to write players off, but I'm gonna say...

As a first team starter - no, I don't think he's at that level and won't be in the immediate future.

As a squad member, yes, if he's happy to stay and learn (which he should be in my opinion).
 
Not near as bad as some are making out. Even the best of defenders make mistakes. hopefully he has a good next season.
 
Time will tell. He's become better and better so I can't see why not and I was very critical of him in the beginning.
 
I think he's shown glimpses for sure. There's a player somewhere in there, whether he makes it here or not is up in the air. He needs to come to terms with what it means to be a United player, because he looks better in a Sweden shirt than a United one.

He hasn't been good enough this season, but he's shown enough to stick around for a bit.
 
I much prefer signing younger players, giving them a season or two to develop, then judging them after say 3 or 4 seasons. Lindelof has had an ok season, could have been better, could have been worse. We have conceded 11 goals in the 12 PL matches he started. We have won 9 of those 12 games. In the CL we conceded 2 goals in the 5 games he started.

Notably, he wasn't on the pitch when our defence went to pieces against Sevilla at home. In the PL his worst moments came as a sub against Huddersfield and in the first half against Palace away. There have been a few games he missed in which our defence has been shocking, such as the first half against City away and Spurs away.

He needs to improve but that is true of the vast majority of our squad. I want him to demonstrate his supposed ability on the ball. I can recall an impressive surge forward and through-ball to Lukaku in one of the CL games.
 
James Peril said:
Defending isn't just about clearing the ball and winning headers, there are so many physical aspects as well as psychological. His positioning is not great, he always seems to be stressed and on the back foot. A lot of clearances for throw-ins because he doesn't know where the striker is or the position of our nearest player. When we let in goals with him on the pitch, he is often "just" behind the one that scores. Rio Ferdinand was a cool and calm head, he seemed a bit nonchalant - but with good reason. He was always ahead of the striker, excellent positioning skills, seldom had to tackle 50/50 and pick up yellow cards as a consequence. You also have someone like van Dijk, who thinks he's as good, but often find himself in problems because he thinks he has better control than he really has - the situation against Sterling being the best example right now. If he is less nonchalant, that's never a goal or a chance to begin with. Lindelof is on the opposite side, he seems stressed and erratic, like his life is in danger for 90 minutes. It doesn't bode well with the others, they don't trust him and his body language - it's basic trust 101 for anyone that has played as a defender at any level.

So far I haven't seen a player in Lindelof. Sure he is playing and doing reasonably OK, but this is Manchester United, not Newcastle or Stoke. We need defenders that scare the other team's striker. Kane and Aguero aren't going to feel sick when they see him in our line-up, quite the opposite. We shouldn't judge a player based 6 months, but we also shouldn't have blind faith in the notion that every single player on the planet might become a superstar. That's just naive; we are Man United and the required level is extremely high. Right now, Lindelof is not even close.
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Good post. Says it all!
 
DomesticTadpole said:
Well I see the famous United fans patience with new players is coming to the fore.
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Same people will probably blame jose if he's sold and turns out decent elsewhere.

The lads young and its an adjustment year for him. He'll grow in confidence and then lets see how he does
 
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