Is Mou still 'The Special One' for you all?

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Pogue Mahone said:
"A poster". Seriously?
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Yes. You were expecting multiple posters to literally say the same thing? There's others who have meant something similar.

More importantly, there are many who consider Jose to have done very well/excellently/as well as anyone could have, this season too.

Either way it's a mixed set of views. But I do find the ones who think he's done well despite the actual performances and results, a tad strange.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Yes. You were expecting multiple posters to literally say the same thing? There's others who have meant something similar.

More importantly, there are many who consider Jose to have done very well/excellently/as well as anyone could have, this season too.

Either way it's a mixed set of views. But I do find the ones who think he's done well despite the actual performances and results, a tad strange.
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We've improved on last season. We've been considerably better to watch thanks to playing generally decent attacking football, combined with being hard to beat. That's a fact. With many stats to back it up. It's hardly "strange" to see this as progress, is it? Plus we've also won a trophy already this season, something fans of every other club in the league often wait years for.

Obviously, what remains to be seen is whether he can improve from here in his second season in charge. This obviously needs to happen for his reign to be a success but it's something that has happened in the past with other clubs he's managed.

Whatever, the idea that the caf is some sort of extremist Mourinho fanboi hive-mind - where dissenting opinions are ruthlessly shut down - is patently ridiculous. Which is the straw man I was referring to.
 
Womp said:
Genuine question, but isn't attacking/defending drills etc. down to the coaches? It's the managers job to decide how to set out the team and how to attack, but it's the coaches job to implement the system with the players in training, both individually and as a combined unit, is it not?

I remember reading something similar in Pep's book, he said something about how it's his job to get his players into positions where they can attack, but once they're there, it's on them to express themselves.
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Unlike say, a Ferguson, Mourinho is both the coach and the manager though don't forget that and he's essentially had almost the same backroom staff all his career.

As for the Pep bit, I think you might have misconstrued the quote a bit. Pep just said not too long ago that it's not his job to teach his players how to score goals. But the attacking build up play is highly coordinated by him and his staff.
 
Jose Mourinho is the special one. He has already outperformed all the managers in the history of this club in their debut seasons. He has already won more trophies with United than Liverpool have copped in 10 years.

The football has improved. It's hardly his fault our strikers can't finish their chances. Mourinho's job is to fashion out a tactical manoeuvre to give us chances to score. The responsibility to score those chances lies squarely on the shoulders of the players.

Any manager who wins the TREBLE with Inter Milan is special.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
We've improved on last season. We've been considerably better to watch thanks to playing generally decent attacking football, combined with being hard to beat. That's a fact. With many stats to back it up. It's hardly "strange" to see this as progress, is it? Plus we've also won a trophy already this season, something fans of every other club in the league often wait years for.

Obviously, what remains to be seen is whether he can improve from here in his second season in charge. This obviously needs to happen for his reign to be a success but it's something that has happened in the past with other clubs he's managed.

Whatever, the idea that the caf is some sort of extremist Mourinho fanboi hive-mind - where dissenting opinions are ruthlessly shut down - is patently ridiculous. Which is the straw man I was referring to.
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There is a considerable amount of patience and acceptance of mediocre from Jose from many on the Caf this year.

If in doubt, let's hark back to when he did the treble at Inter. Seriously, who gives a feck.

I think those of us who did not want him, and gave reasons for it, have probably seen exactly what was expected. Neither fantastic football or any special one characteristics. I doubt any of us would ask for a change of manager or hope we lose so he goes. That was the reality of life on the caf last year.

It is hard to believe those who wanted him and were getting all excited once he was named, are ecstatic with our performances this year. Probably more glad LVG has gone.

Obviously, you have to be blind to not notice that even a simple change of Ibra for Rooney has significantly changed the team. But as for other purchases, has Miki really done better than ADM, Bailly has been like Darmian, a good few games at first but is now showing his rawness and inexperience, Pogba has been very underwhelming. Add to that a lack of playing time for many promising youngsters, a fall in form for Smalling, and it is hard to understand the excitement for Jose.

I hope he goes on wins us the Europa and gets us in top 4, but I still can't say we have had one purple patch this season where we have played exciting attacking football.
 
Womp said:
Genuine question, but isn't attacking/defending drills etc. down to the coaches? It's the managers job to decide how to set out the team and how to attack, but it's the coaches job to implement the system with the players in training, both individually and as a combined unit, is it not?
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In a sense it is the coaches responsibility if the coaching staff have been set up that way. For example, under Fergie Rene was mainly responsible for technical coaching and Quieroz was known for his tactical nous. Under that set up, Fergie relied on specialists while he focused on man management and picking the XI. Even then Fergie was heavily involved in the attacking and defending drills, reason why he was very good at reading the players on the pitch and had the nous on when to bring on an attacking or defensive as the occasion demands. I don't think like to work with specialists, allowing him to be hands on everything. Now the problem is that José isn't that great on many aspects of coaching, jack of all trades kind of thing really.
Womp said:
I remember reading something similar in Pep's book, he said something about how it's his job to get his players into positions where they can attack, but once they're there, it's on them to express themselves.
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You are right. Pep took the LVG way and evolved it by tweaking the final 1/3 or more specifically the 5/6 of the pitch given licence to the players. While Pep, gave the players licence he is very good at pattern play. I had the privilege of watching an open Bayern training, and the practice of patterns was the most intense thing ever. It's like trying to memorise 7 different guitar solos, note for note, tempo for tempo. The eye for detail and repetitive drills were very impressive, very LVG-esque in that regard. Thats why his forward players have a knack for predicting where their pattern partners are. Off course, it helps when you have technically adept players.
 
MDFC Manager said:
Fair enough, city spent more.

I didn't say no improvement though, I said least improvement and that refers to the bolded part. Yes we're playing better than LvG, but that's not tangible enough. Not for me at least.
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You think City have improved much? Or Arsenal?
 
Right now? Probably not. He is a good manager, I don't know if he belongs to the elite at the moment. The season so far has been a slight improvement from a shit level (like we raised the bar from dogshit to shit with van Gaal). If we don't win the EL this season, it will be a failure for us, no excuses and Jose better starts competing for titles next year, otherwise it makes no sense to plan the future with him. Do I believe he can improve us to the level we want next year? Yeah I think he can do it, but I don't think it's a clear thing, but I will give him the chance. But I really don't hope his only plan in the summer is to sign superstars for 200 million, we already did that again last summer and there is no guarantee it will stick this time I expect a top manager to improve us by far even if he has the same squad as now.
 
Looks like Jose' reign is going the same way as the others. Down the shitter. United are a poisoned chalice.
 
I'm still on the fence, with a view that we're just in a particularly poor run of form. However the Jose of old would've changed it by now. He was famous for it back in the day. Now he seems worryingly content to let games we're struggling in run on in the hope of something happening....to the point where it often seems like he's trying to prove something to certain players (reward loyalty/punish disobedience) rather than push for the best tactical outlet.

Hope I'm proved wrong.
 
Finish below Arsenal and Everton and he's skating on thin ice in my opinion. Hate to say it but with the players and resources at his disposal it's nowhere near good enough. Perhaps if he spent as much time building a team with our most talented players as he has alienating them and leaving them out of the squad we'd have a half decent fixed first 11 by now.
 
I don't buy into this idea that Mourinho has nothing to do with our slow, plodding build-up. I think it's insulting to suggest we're supposed to buy that it's all down to the players.
 
Mockney said:
I'm still on the fence, with a view that we're just in a particularly poor run of form. However the Jose of old would've changed it by now. He was famous for it back in the day. Now he seems worryingly content to let games we're struggling in to run on in the hope of something happening....to the point where it often seems like he's trying to prove something to certain players (reward loyalty/punish disobedience) rather than push for the best tactical outlet.

Hope I'm proved wrong.
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Seems more concerned with pursuing personal vendetta's than he does with results on the pitch. Also seems to lack patience with certain players and demonstrate huge faith in players who are unlikely to provide any return. I.e. I'd rather persist with Mkhi even though he might have the odd shit game, than go for a consistent 5/10 in Fellaini.
 
Raees said:
Seems more concerned with pursuing personal vendetta's than he does with results on the pitch. Also seems to lack patience with certain players and demonstrate huge faith in players who are unlikely to provide any return. I.e. I'd rather persist with Mkhi even though he might have the odd shit game, than go for a consistent 5/10 in Fellaini.
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Yeah. His outspoken faith in Fellaini may have worked, but only to the very limited extent that getting the best out of Fellaini possibly can. It certainly seems like energy that would've yielded a lot more had he done it with our better, out of form players. He's been great at getting the best out of our also rans, but so what?

Even Mata, whose one of the few genuinely good first XI players that have risen to his stewardship, seems to have done it almost in spite of him, with little outward verbal encouragement.

As I said though, I haven't tipped yet. We have been actually good at times this season. But he's slipping a bit for sure. And trying to pull us back up by the passion and loyalty of our lessser players alone, is a very frustrating way of doing it.
 
Mockney said:
Yeah. His outspoken faith in Fellaini may have worked, but only to the very limited extent that getting the best out of Fellaini possibly can. It certainly seems like energy that would've yielded a lot more had he done it with our better, out of form players. He's been great at getting the best out of our also rans, but so what?

Even Mata, whose one of the few genuinely good first XI players that have risen to his stewardship, seems to have done it almost in spite of him, with little outward verbal encouragement.

As I said though, I haven't tipped yet. We have been actually good at times this season. But he's slipping a bit for sure.
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Yep sign of a weak manager who finds it difficult to motivate the more difficult to handle talented players in order to get his bum licked by a workhorse who won't question his methods.
 
Yep, Jose Mourinho. Weak manager. RedCafe is enlightening.

So what if he wins the Europa League? All good again, eh?
 
He is looking clueless.

I would rather play Rooney in one of the wide positions as our current batch are brainless in everything they do.

No wide play whatsoever so opposing teams just pack the players within the lines of the 18 yard box and it is ever so easy to defend.
 
Phil Jones 79 said:
Losing patience now. Wtf is this tonight. We are playing like we dont give a s*it
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We probably don't tbf. It's Europa League or nothing.

The Caf's favourite manager Klopp did the same last season and finished 6th in the league (I think?) yet everyone loves him.

Footy fans don't know what they want half the time.
 
Raees said:
Yep sign of a weak manager who finds it difficult to motivate the more difficult to handle talented players in order to get his bum licked by a workhorse who won't question his methods.
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It's only last season at Chelsea that that's happened though. He's won leagues and European Cups with great players before (it's one of the things people always hold against him in Pep vs Jose arguments...that he's bought success rather than nurtured it)... but if this stubbornness continues till the end of the season, it's probably fair to say the experience has damaged him.

He has to bring on Mikhi, Martial & Pogba now. Staggered perhaps, but he needs to at least be thinking that. If he starts the second with the same XI, I'll be worried
 
Where do we go from here? Is it time for us to admit that United are finished as a force? I'm losing the energy to even defend the club and players anymore.
 
Smudge said:
He is looking clueless.

I would rather play Rooney in one of the wide positions as our current batch are brainless in everything they do.

No wide play whatsoever so opposing teams just pack the players within the lines of the 18 yard box and it is ever so easy to defend.
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Limited what he can do with so many weak players. Watch him go next season after a good summer.
 
We pay top dollar for manager and players. We have also been very patient and given them time and support. The least we expect is they show improvement in their games. I would never have thought that we actually become worse as the season progress.

Our play now is so predictable and boring like it used to be under LVG. We actually played better first half of the season. I'm really worry now, if Jose can't fix this mess, who do we go to?
 
Raees said:
Seems more concerned with pursuing personal vendetta's than he does with results on the pitch. Also seems to lack patience with certain players and demonstrate huge faith in players who are unlikely to provide any return. I.e. I'd rather persist with Mkhi even though he might have the odd shit game, than go for a consistent 5/10 in Fellaini.
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Yeah, don't know what has happened but at some point between his first spell at Chelsea and his last season at Chelsea, his man management skills have nosedived. Easier to pinpoint the players who've deteriorated since last season than the ones who've improved, and last season was dire.
 
Shark said:
Where do we go from here? Is it time for us to admit that United are finished as a force? I'm losing the energy to even defend the club and players anymore.
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I can't feel excited or optimistic for this club at all. No matter how much we spend or who we sign, we are a poisoned chalice that are still miles away from the top in England let alone Europe.

I'm just so sceptical about our chances in any competition now. Perhaps it's just me, but post-Fergie has made me lose belief that we can even compete at the top of England let alone Europe.

That's why I find it staggering Liverpool or Arsenal fans often so expectant of success. You'd think their years of disappointment would hit home by now, like I feel the last four years at United have done for me :lol:
 
SirAF said:
Limited what he can do with so many weak players. Watch him go next season after a good summer.
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Wasn't the summer gone supposed to have been a ''good summer''?? Pogba, Baily, Ibra, Miki. All highly rated players which cost the club another fortune. I'm sick to death of this Liverpool-esqe mentality that everything will mend itself next summer, based on very little. Something is either seriously wrong with how the club is doing business, or something us still rotten at the core of the club, as other big clubs seem to be able to pick up players like Kante, Mane and Sanchez and expect results. We don't get anything back and it's infuriating.
 
Last season we had a guy who tried to train every element of our play, attack included, and we said it was too restrictive and that's why we don't win. Now apparently Mou doesn't train attack enough, gives players too much freedom, and he needs to coach attacking more. :rolleyes:

We make plenty of chances. We just miss them all. Its pathetic. We're pathetic. Our squad is full of mice when we need men. I can't believe I grew up with Big Pete, Brucey, Pally, Incey, Robbo then Keano, Sparky and Eric down our spine. Those players had more bottle than our entire squad.

So many EASY misses. I don't blame the manager for not being able to get something out of our squad that isn't there. We're watching Man Utd's very own generation snowflake.
 
Had this thread been started before the Bournemouth game, the Op would've been laughed at. Now, we are pretty much back to where we were at the beginning of the season.
I only care about good attractive football, and honestly don't mind should we go a few years without winning titles if it means we are playing the best football in the league at the very least. And till the Bournemouth game, we were playing great football, maybe not the best in the league but one could actually see progress being made in terms of style if not results.
And I still feel that in terms of style, we are far better off than last season despite having watched these atrocious 45 minutes of the Everton game. But let's be honest over here. After spending 150m on a side that had spent close to 350m in previous 2 years, I would expect our side to be competing for the title. We may use Moyes' appointment as the decision that sey us back, but it's been 3 seasons since he was sacked, we've spent around 450-500m on transfers in last 3 seasons, broken British transfer fee record twice but we aren't any better off than last season when it comes to results.
Had it been any other manager, who blames players, referees, luck when things don't go our way, *cough* *Moyes* *cough* we'd have called them out , called them a fraud, but it's just our Mou bias that we don't do so. We may blame finishing, and I'd even agree that we been more clinical we'd be in the title race, but the problem is that our buildup is far too slow and it gives opposition time to reorganize themselves once we just pass the ball around, and that is Manager's fault and not the players
 
Needs a really strong start next season.

If we reach November and we're 8 or 9 points off the top then I think he's in trouble. As are we, because if Jose can't sort us out who the feck can?
 
Shark said:
Wasn't the summer gone supposed to have been a ''good summer''?? Pogba, Baily, Ibra, Miki. All highly rated players which cost the club another fortune. I'm sick to death of this Liverpool-esqe mentality that everything will mend itself next summer, based on very little. Something is either seriously wrong with how the club is doing business, or something us still rotten at the core of the club, as other big clubs seem to be able to pick up players like Kante, Mane and Sanchez and expect results. We don't get anything back and it's infuriating.
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The rest of the squad is rotten mate, thanks to Moyes and LvG. Takes more than one summer to fix.
 
Nah im done with him. Will always support the team and the boys but not this horrible cretin. Negative tactics and bullying nature.
 
Mockney said:
He has to bring on Mikhi, Martial & Pogba now. Staggered perhaps, but he needs to at least be thinking that. If he starts the second with the same XI, I'll be worried
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@Raees Well Pogba on is a start, but still, it's the potentially half fit one in his corner who comes on first, rather than either of the fully fit ones he's had issues with. Doesn't bode particularly well.
 
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