Is Mou still 'The Special One' for you all?

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Pogue Mahone said:
They need to be patient too. Ditto the City fans moaning about Pep. As I said in another thread, the modern football fan is an insanely fickle and impatient creature.
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Ah perfect. Another post which completely ignores every single salient point made about Mourinho and simply blindly demands we be patient. Okay, I'll come back in a year no doubt to find you'll be here telling us all Mourinho just needs one more window and another couple of hundred million and then we'll certainly be back in the top 4.
 
getupkid said:
Ah perfect. Another post which completely ignores every single salient point made about Mourinho and simply blindly demands we be patient. Okay, I'll come back in a year no doubt to find you'll be here telling us all Mourinho just needs one more window and another couple of hundred million and then we'll certainly be back in the top 4.
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If you could take a break for a year that would be terrific. Thanks. Just for the record, though, I'm expecting a lot more from Mourinho and United next season. Which I've already said in at least three different threads this morning. Including the one you're posting in.
 
getupkid said:
Ah perfect. Another post which completely ignores every single salient point made about Mourinho and simply blindly demands we be patient. Okay, I'll come back in a year no doubt to find you'll be here telling us all Mourinho just needs one more window and another couple of hundred million and then we'll certainly be back in the top 4.
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What's the answer then? Sack Jose and bring in who this summer?

Whoever we bring in, the current/new manager will need to bring in new players. We simply still have too many average players.

At Real Madrid Jose had good players. At Chelsea he had good players. At Utd, he has an average squad of players with a sprinkling of good players.
 
do.ob said:
Mourinho's "special one status" (in the literal sense) ended at Real in my view and that title now belongs to Simeone. Given how good everyone has become at defending/pressing (especially if you consider how high up the field most top teams are positioned these days) it seems to me that the most important task for every coach is setting up their attack, so it can dominate, penetrate in an economic way. And arguably that field has always been Mourinho's weakest point.
I think that's really beginning to show this season.
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How will you argue against the points about "his Real Madrid team scored record number of goals" or "his 1st Chelsea team had the record number of points in EPL history"?
 
Seriously whats the point in these threads? Fergie isnt coming back lads. I have never been Mourinhos biggest fan but the man knows how to win and theres no better person to make us champion material available.

I boil it down to this and for me its always the core of an improving or successful team and its that we are hard to beat. I see spirit and resiliency growing in the team..okay Jose can sometimes be harsh with his arse kicking but some evidently need it. Mourinho will get us back in the mix.
 
getupkid said:
Ah perfect. Another post which completely ignores every single salient point made about Mourinho and simply blindly demands we be patient. Okay, I'll come back in a year no doubt to find you'll be here telling us all Mourinho just needs one more window and another couple of hundred million and then we'll certainly be back in the top 4.
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Yep feck patience eh? Whats ever come good out of being patient?
 
One of the main reasons we have been poor over the past few years is down to a complete lack of consistency at the club; players coming and going, managers coming and going.

We leave Mourinho where he is and allow him to develop the squad as he sees fit. Whether this takes 2 or 3 more years to steady, we stick by our manager. That is the only way back to the top in the long-term. Anyone who thinks sacking the manager is the answer is deluded to the hilt. Sacking the manager is the PROBLEM, not the solution.

Could you imagine what these forums would have looked like in about April 1990? Y'all would look pretty stupid now.
 
I thought it was really impressive how we came out for the second half with Herrera and Young not clear on where they were playing. Great management.
 
Peanut Butter said:
What's the answer then? Sack Jose and bring in who this summer?

Whoever we bring in, the current/new manager will need to bring in new players. We simply still have too many average players.

At Real Madrid Jose had good players. At Chelsea he had good players. At Utd, he has an average squad of players with a sprinkling of good players.
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The answer is stop behaving like Real Madrid and start behaving like Bayern Munich or Barcelona. Stop putting Facebook hits and motor oil sponsors from China before football. Appoint a head coach or manager who will be absolutely focussed on getting us the supporters on the edge of our seats. Because believe, if the supporters are on the edge of their seats, the players will also be loving the way they're playing. Mourinho is a mistake, and bloody big one. He's going to slowly squeeze every ounce of personality from all of our creative players. He's going to give us a 'style' of football which is bland, efficient, and which isn't even going to work in this league anymore.

Lets talk about players too. Paul Pogba. Considered last summer the best midfield player IN THE WORLD. Marcus Rashford, considered last summer the best young attacking talent in England. Antony Martial. Considered one of the stand out performers in the entire league last season. Mikki. Just oozes class. Juan Mata. Ditto. Herrara, again a player absolutely good enough to play for any of the sides in the top 4. Bailly. Looks a beast of a centre half. De Gea. Best keeper in the world. Valencia. Probably currently best right back in the world.

Average players? Sorry mate but you've been indoctrinated by Mourinho and his acolytes and they've done an impressive job. We need a better coach not a whole new squad of players.
 
TheBiggest said:
One of the main reasons we have been poor over the past few years is down to a complete lack of consistency at the club; players coming and going, managers coming and going.

We leave Mourinho where he is and allow him to develop the squad as he sees fit. Whether this takes 2 or 3 more years to steady, we stick by our manager. That is the only way back to the top in the long-term. Anyone who thinks sacking the manager is the answer is deluded to the hilt. Sacking the manager is the PROBLEM, not the solution.

Could you imagine what these forums would have looked like in about April 1990? Y'all would look pretty stupid now.
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its not 1990. could Jose last 6 seasons when he doesn't rotate properly and will burn out his players eventually?
 
Ramshock said:
Seriously whats the point in these threads? Fergie isnt coming back lads. I have never been Mourinhos biggest fan but the man knows how to win and theres no better person to make us champion material available.

I boil it down to this and for me its always the core of an improving or successful team and its that we are hard to beat. I see spirit and resiliency growing in the team..okay Jose can sometimes be harsh with his arse kicking but some evidently need it. Mourinho will get us back in the mix.
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This. I think Mourinho inherited a squad which, as he said, lacked confidence after the robotic style LVG imposed, so maybe he has decided to settle for a season of consolidation and to try and kick on next season. Maybe not what everyone wants to see, but yes, United are generally hard to beat. Only problem is the lack of real attacking threat outside of Ibrahimovic, hopefully that will be improve next season, this summer might well see a host of departures and arrivals.
If United did finish this season with two cups and a 5th placed finish, it's a start. I would rather United won the EL and finish 5th than get knocked out the EL and finish 4th this season, winning the EL means direct entry into the CL group stage, finishing 4th in the PL means a qualifying round to negotiate.
 
@getupkid can make the case that none of the three managers we've had were "absolutely focussed on getting us the supporters on the edge of our seats."

But the way I see it, we've had three managers, at least two of which were competent winners, and none have fixed our problems. Three managers in 4 years. That isnt patient.

So yes, I think there is a good argument to be made for patience.
 
Adebesi said:
WHO?
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Clearly not the one we appointed last summer.

Off the top of my head, Sampaoli, Tuchel, Naglesmann, are three I'd be exploring if I had the power. But then I'd never ever ever have allowed Klopp to move to the dippers, especially knowing that Guardiola was always going to shitty once they'd got his two mates from Barcelona.

And the point with those three coaches isn't that they'll guarantee us success, but that they are progressive in their thinking and will deliver a recognised 'style' of play which our supporters will respect first, and then the wider watching world will respect. It's that they all have philosophies built around possession in the opposition's half, built around high intensity movements and brave decision making.

We're trying to build an expensive steam train whilst our rivals are building jet planes. Then we wonder we why look so stale every time we take to the pitch.
 
Quality razorblades or large quantities of tranquilizers anyone?

Some of you really need a break from all the negetivity..
 
Adebesi said:
@getupkid can make the case that none of the three managers we've had were "absolutely focussed on getting us the supporters on the edge of our seats."

But the way I see it, we've had three managers, at least two of which were competent winners, and none have fixed our problems. Three managers in 4 years. That isnt patient.

So yes, I think there is a good argument to be made for patience.
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Mate, if you appoint the wrong guy and you sack him that's the RIGHT way to do business. Appointing the wrong guy, and keeping him because you appointed the wrong guy the last two times and had to sack them too is a terrible way to do business. Which is essentially what the "patience" argument boils down to.
 
The one narrative im finding it difficult to stomach is this; José has a mix match squad of different styles.

Come on , the way some of you are going on is almost as if a defender at Chelsea is a different world from being a defender at United. Are there differences, yes of course, but to suggest the squad we have is hamstrung by different styles is Rawkish in its concept. Reality is Martial/Miki/Rash have been very very poor this season, hence our attack has been woeful.

Those differences, those differing attributes, should give us more room for tactical superiority, surely?
 
Adebesi said:
@getupkid can make the case that none of the three managers we've had were "absolutely focussed on getting us the supporters on the edge of our seats."

But the way I see it, we've had three managers, at least two of which were competent winners, and none have fixed our problems. Three managers in 4 years. That isnt patient.

So yes, I think there is a good argument to be made for patience.
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It's simple really, if we're going to adopt the typical norm these days and hire a new manager every few years we need to hire a DOF for stability and continuity. Otherwise, we need to give our managers time to implement their own ideals, get in their own players, change things around how they'd like. Our period of success has given some of our fans a sense of entitlement. The times of us dominating and no team being able to compete is over, that'll never happen again. What we can achieve though, is allowing our manager, the most successful manager of this fecking generation, to create the team he wants. Continue to chop and change managers and players and we are back at square one.

If these guys literally have no patience, they should find another club, because no matter what manager comes in, this isn't going to be a quick fix.
 
getupkid said:
Clearly not the one we appointed last summer.

Off the top of my head, Sampaoli, Tuchel, Naglesmann, are three I'd be exploring if I had the power. But then I'd never ever ever have allowed Klopp to move to the dippers, especially knowing that Guardiola was always going to shitty once they'd got his two mates from Barcelona.

And the point with those three coaches isn't that they'll guarantee us success, but that they are progressive in their thinking and will deliver a recognised 'style' of play which our supporters will respect first, and then the wider watching world will respect. It's that they all have philosophies built around possession in the opposition's half, built around high intensity movements and brave decision making.

We're trying to build an expensive steam train whilst our rivals are building jet planes. Then we wonder we why look so stale every time we take to the pitch.
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So after rebuilding for Moyes, then for Van Gaal and now for Mourinho, you want to bring in another manager with yet another completely different style? Don't you think a squad lacking a coherent style and direction might me a big part of the problem?
 
getupkid said:
Clearly not the one we appointed last summer.

Off the top of my head, Sampaoli, Tuchel, Naglesmann, are three I'd be exploring if I had the power. But then I'd never ever ever have allowed Klopp to move to the dippers, especially knowing that Guardiola was always going to shitty once they'd got his two mates from Barcelona.

And the point with those three coaches isn't that they'll guarantee us success, but that they are progressive in their thinking and will deliver a recognised 'style' of play which our supporters will respect first, and then the wider watching world will respect. It's that they all have philosophies built around possession in the opposition's half, built around high intensity movements and brave decision making.

We're trying to build an expensive steam train whilst our rivals are building jet planes. Then we wonder we why look so stale every time we take to the pitch.
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If we're playing "how do we fix our current problems and yes you can use a time machine" then yes, I agree I would probably have preferred to bring in Klopp than Mourinho. I dont think you'd be in a minority there, if people were being honest. Not a huge minority anyway: you only have to look back to the posts a few years ago to see he was always the preferred candidate.

But we are where we are. I dont think any of the people you mentioned are better qualified to manage us than Mourinho. You can surely see how it would go with at least two of them at the end of a first disappointing season. "But what have they ever won in their careers? We need someone with experience managing a club like United."

There's always a reason why the current manager isnt quite the right fit, there's always a different criteria that needs to be met so that we can finally shake off our malaise.

The only thing we havent tried yet is accepting there is no easy way out of this and just being - yes - patient.
 
HTG said:
So after rebuilding for Moyes, then for Van Gaal and now for Mourinho, you want to bring in another manager with yet another completely different style? Don't you think a squad lacking a coherent style and direction might me a big part of the problem?
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Don't you think part of the problem might be that we have managed to appoint three coaches since SAF who are all in their own way tactical/footballing dinasours? Don't you think that the lack of a coherent style of play is because two of them outright failed with their outdated methods and the third is on the way to failing in a similar manner?
 
Leaving the ground at the moment, if you didn't know, you would think it was last season. Disgruntled, disappointed, frustrated and dare I say it bored.

The main thing we all have to cling onto is success in the Europa, without that, I genuinely think he would be under some significant pressure, he hasn't turned us round that much. Top 4 is all but gone, unless we actually start winning.

It's hard to see how he will keep his job, unless he wins the Europa.
 
HTG said:
So after rebuilding for Moyes, then for Van Gaal and now for Mourinho, you want to bring in another manager with yet another completely different style? Don't you think a squad lacking a coherent style and direction might me a big part of the problem?
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Moyes and LvG were ridiculous decisions, so much so, if we hadn't built up such a strong commercial brand, we be falling even quicker than we are now.
 
Bit desperate this but any chance of a few likes so I can carry on posting today? I'm still at daily limit 10 which is super frustrating! I appreciate that my comments about Mourinho aren't super positive but i'm angry because I saw this coming. Feels good to at least be able to get it off my chest here.
 
SammyUnited_83 said:
Moyes and LvG were ridiculous decisions, so much so, if we hadn't built up such a strong commercial brand, we be falling even quicker than we are now.
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I don't think so. Both are great managers. The problem is that they succeeded each other, which is kind of stupid. They have completely different styles and that forced you to keep rebuilding.
 
Womp said:
It's simple really, if we're going to adopt the typical norm these days and hire a new manager every few years we need to hire a DOF for stability and continuity. Otherwise, we need to give our managers time to implement their own ideals, get in their own players, change things around how they'd like. Our period of success has given some of our fans a sense of entitlement. The times of us dominating and no team being able to compete is over, that'll never happen again. What we can achieve though, is allowing our manager, the most successful manager of this fecking generation, to create the team he wants. Continue to chop and change managers and players and we are back at square one.

If these guys literally have no patience, they should find another club, because no matter what manager comes in, this isn't going to be a quick fix.
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I agree.

And of the two options you set out, right now I prefer the give Mourinho time option.

Do I have any doubts? Yes, of course. Especially after nights like last night. I do wonder whether Mourinho's best days arent behind him. Sometimes I worry about it quite a lot. Other times it feels like we are going in the right direction. But for me this isnt about how much confidence I have in Mourinho. I think he has earned the right to have a real shot at making it work for us, that means more than one season and it probably means more than two.

What I really disagree with is:

getupkid said:
Mate, if you appoint the wrong guy and you sack him that's the RIGHT way to do business. Appointing the wrong guy, and keeping him because you appointed the wrong guy the last two times and had to sack them too is a terrible way to do business. Which is essentially what the "patience" argument boils down to.
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If you messed up three appointments in a row, its time to consider that either a) it isnt the appointments that's the problem, its something else, or else b) your appointments process is rubbish anyway, so going through the process again probably isnt going to help.

Two very different situations that amount to the same thing: we are better off staying our hand.
 
SammyUnited_83 said:
Leaving the ground at the moment, if you didn't know, you would think it was last season. Disgruntled, disappointed, frustrated and dare I say it bored.

The main thing we all have to cling onto is success in the Europa, without that, I genuinely think he would be under some significant pressure, he hasn't turned us round that much. Top 4 is all but gone, unless we actually start winning.

It's hard to see how he will keep his job, unless he wins the Europa.
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Of course he will keep his job - no way we sack him end of this season.
 
Are you all deluded?

Mourinho will 100% be United manager next season, with or without CL football. And so he should be.

It's time we let our squad full of players know that the manager is staying and you either follow his way or take the high way.

I have no doubt the board will be keeping him and hoping he stays for the long term.
 
You simply have to stick with a manager for more than 2/3 seasons with the state the squad is in currently. It will take several transfer windows to transform the squad as is probably needed and it is pointless to do that only to change manager after multiple players have come in only for the new manager to have different ideas and views on players, starting the whole thing off on yet another cycle and solving nothing. You have Jose and you need to stick with him for several years.
 
Stale performance last night. Stale performance on the weekend. Same old dross as last season at times, but take the positives. We're unbeaten in 20 games, still four points of the top four. I agree that top four isn't enough but let's give it a go.

For me, Young, Lingard, Smalling, Jones, Darmian and Blind aren't good enough. Give Jose a couple of seasons and a few transfer windows to implement his style and own players.

Jose, wow, people questioning the man after ten months? Happened with Moyes, van Gaal got two years. If we sack Jose, what do we do? Get Simeone in? Get who in? And then what, sack him? fecking hell, think about it.
 
balaks said:
You simply have to stick with a manager for more than 2/3 seasons with the state the squad is in currently. It will take several transfer windows to transform the squad as is probably needed and it is pointless to do that only to change manager after multiple players have come in only for the new manager to have different ideas and views on players, starting the whole thing off on yet another cycle and solving nothing. You have Jose and you need to stick with him for several years.
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It's upsetting that a Spurs fan understands our situation more than some of our fans do.
 
SammyUnited_83 said:
It's hard to see how he will keep his job, unless he wins the Europa.
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Never wanted him here, still don't want him here. But we wouldn't sack himand shouldn't sack him just yet.

The club dropped the ball when we didn't go all out for Poch even after Fergie called the best manager in the league last season. It's clear that the board has prioritised and is desperate for immediate success (imo, for the sake of commercial purposes primarily), something that José is known for. When you set such a precedent, you have pushed all the eggs into one basket.

Had we hired a manager that could build little steps at a time from the moment Fergie left we would have been fine by now. I would have gladly taken 3 years of growing pain for some quality stuff now.

Sacking José is just taking us back to square one.

But in the event that José is sacked, Pochettino should be treated as a marquee signing
 
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