His remit at Chelsea, Inter and Real Madrid was to win asap or get sacked. Anyway, I am talking about a 2-3 year squad overhaul rather than building dynasties. Get the right players in and start winning again and the culture should take care of itself.
Is Mou still 'The Special One' for you all?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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His remit at Chelsea, Inter and Real Madrid was to win asap or get sacked. Anyway, I am talking about a 2-3 year squad overhaul rather than building dynasties. Get the right players in and start winning again and the culture should take care of itself.
He isn't faultless but we are creating chances, little the manager can do if the players aren't finding the net.
You make it sound like it would be a phenomenal accomplishment. Even with the season United are having they're still a heavy favorite to win the whole thing given the level of opposition.
Lyon are a very good team tbf.
I can give you this one, but we didn't hire Jose to win the League Cup. I don't rate it too much if I'm honest and the same with the summer trophies. I would be more pleased if he used the league cup to rest some key players and give chances to the young kids. That Spanish Cup against Barcelona was something remarkable though. Barca were unplayable at the moment and it was a great achievement.
But if you compare that version of Mourinho, confident, hungry, energic, with the flacid man we have in charge at the moment, I think it can be in part explained why we are in this situation. The players adored him at that moment, they were killing for him on the field. He was the best expression of the leader and he inspired them to compete against giants. The same with Inter before, that was something special.
Unfortunately for us it seems like he's a different person now. Too many years in the game at a high intensity, explosive short term cycles with every club. He said last week in an interview something like "a victory is not the sky now, and a loss is not the hell anymore", which should be taken into account. Many people praised his signature this summer because he's a man that wants to win at all costs, and can't digest a loss, but it's not the case based on his own words.
Maybe there's some personal problems too as it's been rumoured, he's human after all. But I don't see that magic aura at the moment, which I'm sure it was key for his success in the past. If he doesn't recover some of his old spark soon I don't think he will last too long here.
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Think it could be this, isn't his father on his deathbed? He's also regularly spoken about how difficult it is being away from his family.
So when people will start buying scarfs with face of some other manager on it outside OT...or maybe start wishing us to lose games for "greater good",we all know that reward for that might be regular membership of United Hour podcast.
People just cant handle it,last season FA Cup,this season the other one...and yet caf members acting like bunch of lunatics. You laughing at RAWK or Arsenal fan TV...God forbid that you are Liverpool or Arsenal fan,RAWK would look like a baby compared with CAF.
People just cant handle it,last season FA Cup,this season the other one...and yet caf members acting like bunch of lunatics. You laughing at RAWK or Arsenal fan TV...God forbid that you are Liverpool or Arsenal fan,RAWK would look like a baby compared with CAF.
shamed to say this: we are playing that kind of football we would despise and sniff at under sir Alex.
I dont understand why they havent moved up to Manchester yet to be honest.
Doesn't his son play for a club in London or something? It would also be difficult if they're settled and comfortable where they are.
I don't know what to think anymore.
Rather than results or lack of competing at the top, I'm just so sick of watching us play bad football. Any coach of Manchester United needs to be braver than Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho have been.
Lumping the ball up towards Fellaini as a centre forward is unacceptable. Slow, laboured passing betweeb over coached, overly structured and negative, backwards looking players is unacceptable. Having a squad full of 25 players who cannot cross a ball is unacceptable.
There are issues with the players I'm sure. Several of them are just not good enough to play for this club. The odd good performance isn't enough for the slack we give some of them - to be a United player that level needs to be the norm.
But it isn't Luke Shaw setting the side up so negatively. He isn't instructing his teammates to resort to such conservative, small-time tactics.
I didn't mind Jose criticising the lad the other day. If his attitude is wrong there's no excuses for him with the money he's paid and opportunities he has. Their public image and Twitter profiles are more important to some of these lads than their sense of duty or professionalism, so why not hit them where it'll hurt and look for a reaction there.
But why have another go last night? What did that achieve? You've made your point and now either give the lad a chance to react positively, or get rid in the summer. Don't play him 48 hours later just to have another public crack off him again.
There's enough going wrong at the moment to spread some blame around. The players need a fire lit under them, some of them simply need replacing, but Jose has a lot of improving to do as well.
Rather than results or lack of competing at the top, I'm just so sick of watching us play bad football. Any coach of Manchester United needs to be braver than Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho have been.
Lumping the ball up towards Fellaini as a centre forward is unacceptable. Slow, laboured passing betweeb over coached, overly structured and negative, backwards looking players is unacceptable. Having a squad full of 25 players who cannot cross a ball is unacceptable.
There are issues with the players I'm sure. Several of them are just not good enough to play for this club. The odd good performance isn't enough for the slack we give some of them - to be a United player that level needs to be the norm.
But it isn't Luke Shaw setting the side up so negatively. He isn't instructing his teammates to resort to such conservative, small-time tactics.
I didn't mind Jose criticising the lad the other day. If his attitude is wrong there's no excuses for him with the money he's paid and opportunities he has. Their public image and Twitter profiles are more important to some of these lads than their sense of duty or professionalism, so why not hit them where it'll hurt and look for a reaction there.
But why have another go last night? What did that achieve? You've made your point and now either give the lad a chance to react positively, or get rid in the summer. Don't play him 48 hours later just to have another public crack off him again.
There's enough going wrong at the moment to spread some blame around. The players need a fire lit under them, some of them simply need replacing, but Jose has a lot of improving to do as well.
We are still just lumping crosses into the box a la Moyes, so no he doesn't look special at all.
So what's the solution in your view. Fire him and strart again? We won the EPL. We are still in the hunt for 4th (looking desperate I admit) and still in Europa. Whilst you don't call that progress, I beg to differ.
I do not dispute this season has been less than stellar but to say "he's a results guy" and essentially say he is the one entirely at fault is over-simplistic. He is not perfect but do think he is the right guy for the job at this point. If we are still 6th next year then yes you are right he should be sacked. But doubt that will happen.
Does he? I didnt know that.
The son thing explains it. "Being comfortable where they are" less so. I am comfortable where I am, but if my wife or I get a dream job on the other side of the country, which will be bringing in the main family income, the other one of us is going as well. My home wouldnt feel so comfortable if we werent both living in it.
It was he who won the league 2 years ago. But, don't forget that it was him who lost his team and on 17th in december the very next year with his own squad that he built for 2 years.
I think if we are going to talk about his record recently, how he fecked up the next season in such a stunning way should be included too.
Hence the argument that he is still the same as years ago based on that title won is not that clear cut imo.
Not to mentioned the league quality in that year was i think almost as bad as the last season IF we are going to drag the league 'quality' around.
I like Mou and still back him but do admit my confidence in him has been shaken a little bit. Plenty here have said he is nothing like the Mou of old and instead is a humourless, surly personality. I do worry about that. Being the manager of United should bring out a little more joy in you. Secondly, my personal take is that he hasn't really learned from his sacking last year. It's like he is acting like his tried and true methods are infallible and woe to anyone who dares contest them, especially the man-management side of things. One thing that (again in my own view) which he pales versus SAF is that SAF changed with the times both in terms of tactics and management of personalities. Mou doesn't seem to (nor want to) embrace that apparently.
They're the fourth best team in France tbf
You make some good points but I would challenge the "instant champion" notion. At Inter, Chelski I + II, Madrid he took over top of the table and much more talented squads. This version of United we all should admit are much more of a WIP.
Ah yes, because the position of opposition teams are the be all and end all to how good teams are. Explains how Tottenham who are second in our league lost to Gent. Or how that team we beat in the Europa managed to beat Bayern. Thanks for educating me. Didn't realise football was so simple.
Ah yes, the folly of using a team's results and league position to evaluate them. What was I thinking?????
You're clutching at straws so heavily it's quite amusing tbf. Using that logic, if City lose and we go ahead of them in , we're the superior team, correct? But wait, that goes against the narrative you were spouting earlier, my bad.
Not like league competitions are determined on consistency whereas it's more about luck and ability in cup competitions, or anything.
Well, yes if our results improved and we were doing better than City then I may think that we were better than them. Strange but true.
If that does happen, I'll be sure to come back to you to get your opinion pal.
Ok. And if this hypothetical scenario doesn't happen?
That was an exception to be fair, although Fellaini really should have scored.
Ok. And what if we lose this weekend and drop down to seventh below Arsenal and Everton? Will you be sure to get my opinion on that?Then we stay below City in the table
Liverpool were the eighth best team in the PL last season tbf. Yet they/we threw away a surefire EL final after getting there the hard way. This cup is a different beast to league form.
You'll make sure I hear it anyway, so no worries there mate
What I'm saying is you won't find anyone calling for these players' heads because they manage to look useful without doing much of note in cold hard figures like assists and goals so they escape scrutiny and resultantly the axe. That the squad is unbalanced is obvious and has been since Ferguson left the building but we continue to make it worse by buying players on reputation with little regard for squad balance - game changing players like Di Maria/Pogba/Zlatan need a support structure behind them to cover their shortcomings so that their mistakes do not become costly which invites pressure and loss of confidence, I think @Devillish touched on it in Pogba's thread that Zidane had Davids at Juve, Kaka had Gatusso etc and I agree with him that you can't see the best of these players if do not have players like Fletcher to protect them. So we could sign Neymar tomorrow and still find ourselves fighting for fourth for that reason and like Van Gaal did the manager will lay the blame on the star player to save his own skin.
You say we now have a manager that could use those kind of players but what are Martial, Mata and Mkhitaryan? I believe they are those type of players but their effectiveness has been blunted by an environment created by the manager - they rarely play with like minded players and are publicly criticized for anything leading to confidence and self belief issues. Among thing for Jose to rectify are his man management skills because even though the players are hardly blameless his treatment of them have contributed a lot to what we are seeing now. What do you think goes through Shaw's mind when he thrown under the bus for his performances only to watch Fellaini escape unscathed from his performance last night.
Should close the thread after this post. This is all there is too it.
The problems stem back to LVG selling too many forwards and them not being properly replaced. Mourinho could not rectify that on one window, when we had many other issues as well as no CL football.
His playing style creates bucket loads of chances but we can't finish enough of them. That is not his fault. Its that's simple.
The selective recall of history and agenda led analysis of other teams is quite ridiculous and probably exists to attract notoriety on the Internet. If people can't see that, little anyone else can do really except say enjoy living with your unfounded angst.
Luckily the board and enough match going fans can see this so Mourinho rightly has the clubs absolute full backing. He has mine too.
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Mourinho walked the league with Chelsea two seasons ago. The way some people go on here you would think he's been out of club football for years and hasn't had any success for years. Mourinho is the best man for the job in my eyes. He'll get it right. Most the players we have now are not mentally strong enough to play under Jose. I'm still hopeful that we'll win the EL anyway (the other teams left in the competition we should beat even in our current form and our performances in the EL haven't been bad at all) so I can accept two trophies in Jose's first season as a good stepping stone. It's important we win the EL and get CL so we can attract special players like Griezmann for example in the summer. Let's just see where we are at the end of season and judge then. No point in overreacting now. Anything can happen between now and May.
@itso 7 I dont think Mata, Martial or Miki are natural, touchline hugging wingers who wake up every morning excited about putting in crosses all day. The kind of players SAF used to love buying, regardless of what we actually needed. I remember in the old days people used to chuckle about it. In the umpteen "we need a centre midfielder" threads (those were the days), we'd say, "we SO need a midfielder now, Anderson is beyond past it... but we'll buy a winger instead!" It was a truism.
We dont have those players now. Well, we have a couple still hanging around - Young and Valencia - but theyve been converted into something else entirely.
Anyway, you talked about balance and that was what I was trying to get at in the first place. We lack balance. I put that down to the lack of a coherent strategy, which in turn comes from the fact we keep changing tack with our managers. Its like too many cooks spoiling the broth.
We dont have those players now. Well, we have a couple still hanging around - Young and Valencia - but theyve been converted into something else entirely.
Anyway, you talked about balance and that was what I was trying to get at in the first place. We lack balance. I put that down to the lack of a coherent strategy, which in turn comes from the fact we keep changing tack with our managers. Its like too many cooks spoiling the broth.
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Why could he not change that in one window? surely that's exactly what he could have done.
The match going fans were singing LVGs name up till the end of the season.
Because he had the same opinion that you (and, admittedly, me too) repeatedly shared throughout last season. That Wayne Rooney wasn't completely finished as a top class striker.
Though in fairness, with English bookmakers, England are always one of the favorites to win the World Cup / Euros, yet we haven't won it since 66, and have regularly had our pants pulled down / under perform.
The odds aren't really a fair representation of who should / are the favorites, the bookies are just covering their tight little arses.
Even if we end up winning the EL, from individual stand point, this season will end up being a failure for Mourinho.
He inherited a squad that finished level on points with 4th placed team last season and got 4th the season before. The announcement was made early so he had plenty of time to lay the ground work.
He himself said he got all his targets, so there's no excuses on that front.
His man management is still up for the debate, if he gets the credit for Herrera's resurgence this season, so should he take the flak for not getting the best out of Martial, Rashford and several others.
I don't agree with the Europa league fixture congestion nonsense either. LVG had to deal with it in the second season and he almost made the top 4 (It went right down to the wire, at least). We're still quite a while from the season's end, but a top 4 finish is almost out of the picture now.
Plus we are yet to see him winning it for us with an inspired substitution or a tactical master plan. Whatever entertainment was seen in the football during first few months has fully dissipated now.
If Antonio Conte can take Chelsea from 10th to 1st in his first season in England, you should atleast expect the special one to slightly improve our position and performance or at least hold on to what we did last season.
Nextseason, there will be nowhere to hide for him. Give him full support and ge him his targets.Then we shall judge him according to what he puts in front of us.
He inherited a squad that finished level on points with 4th placed team last season and got 4th the season before. The announcement was made early so he had plenty of time to lay the ground work.
He himself said he got all his targets, so there's no excuses on that front.
His man management is still up for the debate, if he gets the credit for Herrera's resurgence this season, so should he take the flak for not getting the best out of Martial, Rashford and several others.
I don't agree with the Europa league fixture congestion nonsense either. LVG had to deal with it in the second season and he almost made the top 4 (It went right down to the wire, at least). We're still quite a while from the season's end, but a top 4 finish is almost out of the picture now.
Plus we are yet to see him winning it for us with an inspired substitution or a tactical master plan. Whatever entertainment was seen in the football during first few months has fully dissipated now.
If Antonio Conte can take Chelsea from 10th to 1st in his first season in England, you should atleast expect the special one to slightly improve our position and performance or at least hold on to what we did last season.
Nextseason, there will be nowhere to hide for him. Give him full support and ge him his targets.Then we shall judge him according to what he puts in front of us.
It will be a phenomenal achievement.
I think this team was and is still massively over rated. Yes, big names like Zlatan and Pogba came in but many people failed to see the cracks and imbalance in the team. A season meltdown only required a few of the reliables to be off form or inconsistent and that is what has happened.
New manager, new players, new formations, new mentality etc in a season with at least 6 other teams that are almost equally strong and with old players that need to be replaced? Yes, winning the EFL and the Europa League will be phenomenal.
I think this team was and is still massively over rated. Yes, big names like Zlatan and Pogba came in but many people failed to see the cracks and imbalance in the team. A season meltdown only required a few of the reliables to be off form or inconsistent and that is what has happened.
New manager, new players, new formations, new mentality etc in a season with at least 6 other teams that are almost equally strong and with old players that need to be replaced? Yes, winning the EFL and the Europa League will be phenomenal.
This. He fell into the same trap Van Gaal did believing there was still some fire left in Rooney. Although I am sure whilst Mourinho was out of work last season he was studying our matches, preparing so he should have seen that Rooney had lost a couple of yards of pace and his touch had gone.
We need 2 strikers to come in
He never was for me, the special one will always be for me the great SIR ALEX
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