Someone promote this man.
Is Mou still 'The Special One' for you all?
- Thread starter Edgar Allan Pillow
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
- Status
This is a very poor post.
We are not even that far off the top. We should be in second really. Mourinho is the best man for the job. Granted he will probably only stay four years maximum.
We're 18 points behind Chelsea.
Why should we be in 2nd?
Heh
Just a little patience guys. We are forgetting that we have a new coach who was handed over a mismanaged under confident team in serious need of a overhaul.
When Pochettino took over he had finished 5th in his first season. In his second season (which is last year) he finished 3rd but that was when Leicester won the league and he just had 5 more points that us and our season was declared as a debacle and got our manager fired. Klopp took over Liverpool and finished 8th and is into his 2nd season and things still don't look great there (though they are better than us at the moment).
I think no matter how prepared or good a manager is, it takes him about a year to steady things. We have good players and a good manager. A strong work ethic has been developed and much of the deadwood has been moved on. Just a few tweaks are needed here and there. We will surely get there.
When Pochettino took over he had finished 5th in his first season. In his second season (which is last year) he finished 3rd but that was when Leicester won the league and he just had 5 more points that us and our season was declared as a debacle and got our manager fired. Klopp took over Liverpool and finished 8th and is into his 2nd season and things still don't look great there (though they are better than us at the moment).
I think no matter how prepared or good a manager is, it takes him about a year to steady things. We have good players and a good manager. A strong work ethic has been developed and much of the deadwood has been moved on. Just a few tweaks are needed here and there. We will surely get there.
You seem to be pretty serious with your comments, which could only mean you have a severe blind spot when assessing this squad. I would say LvG overachieved with the players he had. Without Zlatan we're mid table and Jose might have already been run out.
I think that is a bit unfair. We have a squad which is littered with international players and promising youth. Agree we do not have any world class players. We have a string attack, even in comparison to the team's above us in the league, but we don't have a striker that scares the sh*t out of defences. We have a solid, if not creative midfield, but no one who can control the midfield, we have a fairly competent backline, but no one who can dominate a WC striker.
Our main issues have been with the last 3 managers approach and tactics. I never really understood what Moyes was trying to do. LVG was the lean man, structure and no wastage, and thus no creativity and no risk. Jose, shackles players with zonal play and 'not lose' rather 'play to win' mentality.
The players over the last 3 years have played some wonderful and some dreadful play. The wonderful lasts for a very short time and has been infrequent. There has to be a question on the managers role in this.
Of course the managers cannot be absolved from this, but I look at where players are ending up after they leave us these past few years and bar DiMaria all have gone to significantly lesser clubs with much lower expectations. I think we'll see the same thing with players leaving this summer.
You've left out so many bits an pieces here. When comparing players signed with Conté you've just left Ibra off the list. Yeah he was free but he's still a significant player coming in.
Then you compare Mou to Pochettino and point out the latter hasn't won anything with Spurs. Would it also not be fair to mention he can't spend anywhere near as much? Is it inconceivable that had he signed Zlatan, Pogba and Mkhi in the summer Spurs would be even higher?
The statement about Martial is sweeping. You know little about his situation and therefore how much his personal life has affected him professionally. Clearly Mourinho disagrees with you as he expects more.
You can't just point out all the circumstances that hold Mourinho back and negate to mention the challenges other managers have to deal with.
Has Jose Mourinho even been in charge of Manchester United for one year?
Nope.
Chill guys. Have some patience. They don't call him one of the very best for nothing. He can be accused of many things but most experts agree he's a pretty good manager and he sure is.
One trophy already. I'm betting he'll win the Europa and get United back in the Champions League and next season, United will be right in the mix for the title.
His comments already show that he knows what the problems are: not finishing well, not killing off games, not making the right decisions at crucial moments etc. There's no doubt he'll be working at fixing those problems next season.
The thing is Jose must know this is judgement time for him. If he messes up this job, his reputation will be taking a very bad hit. He'll be a fool not to give it his beat shot.
Nope.
Chill guys. Have some patience. They don't call him one of the very best for nothing. He can be accused of many things but most experts agree he's a pretty good manager and he sure is.
One trophy already. I'm betting he'll win the Europa and get United back in the Champions League and next season, United will be right in the mix for the title.
His comments already show that he knows what the problems are: not finishing well, not killing off games, not making the right decisions at crucial moments etc. There's no doubt he'll be working at fixing those problems next season.
The thing is Jose must know this is judgement time for him. If he messes up this job, his reputation will be taking a very bad hit. He'll be a fool not to give it his beat shot.
So which of Jose's circumstances / teams will be fair enough to compare with Poch's? I think Porto and Inter would be appropriate in terms of money available. Well they both won the treble. Spurs hasn't won anything under Poch.
Is there any manager in the world, worth his salt who would ask his team to defend a one goal lead at half time? I doubt there is. From Jose's comments, he was clearly upset the lads didn't go for more goals to finish off the game.
But his post match comments show that he was upset his team sat back and his attackers didn't go for more goals. . How come people conclude he actually instructed his team to sit back?
I'm not really interested in comparing Pochettino and Mourinho by looking at what they did with teams a decade apart. Far too much faff.
The post I quoted was talking about this season. My only point being it seems fair to mention Poch didn't get to sign the worlds most expensive player this summer for example.
Ok, I didn't want Jose as our manager, but now he is here, i'm totally behind him. I do think we will get beaten tomorrow, because Chelsea are a class above us this season and, with City winning again today, I think the chances of top 4 will be put to bed by tomorrow afternoon. Does this make me change my mind on Jose - well not really, I think he is as good as anyone to get us back to the top, but I am very disappointed with how this season has panned out. The football has been pretty disastrous really given the supposed quality in the squad.
Jose's inability to get a tune out of Martial, Rashford and Miki for the majority of their time on the pitch is probably the most disappointing thing for me.
It just seems that for the last 3 years, I've been saying to myself 'if only we could have turned them x number of draws into wins, then we will be 2/3'. Anyone else? Nothing much has changed when you think back.
Jose's inability to get a tune out of Martial, Rashford and Miki for the majority of their time on the pitch is probably the most disappointing thing for me.
It just seems that for the last 3 years, I've been saying to myself 'if only we could have turned them x number of draws into wins, then we will be 2/3'. Anyone else? Nothing much has changed when you think back.
i'm talking about the point in the second half where Rashford disappears and Fellaini appears.....
if thats an attempt to improve your goal chances then Mourinho needs a slap
You may not agree with it, but it doesn't make it a poor post per se.
1. Ibra was a free agent because he is a 35yr old man, who has been playing top flight football for over 15yrs, and has been in decline for quite a few years. Such players are stop gap measures (like Eto and Drogba in his second stint at Chelsea) but if you insist on adding Zlatan to the list of Mourinho, you still end up with just 4 players (same as conte).
2. The comparison to Poch, is in regards to the "playing youth" argument, and low budget is not an excuse when Leceister, with the 4th least expensive squad, manage (against all odds) to win the League. LC, FA or EL silverware are reasonable expectations for a club of Spurs stature and the leagues 6th most expensive squad.
3. Martial divorce has been in the news often enough, with his ex-wife Samantha seeming to relish the publicity. It is not a stretch to imagine how such could affect a 21yr old kid (even grown men have been known to be adversely affected by such). That Mourinho expects more from him does not negate the challenges the kid has been facing.
4. Every manager has challenges and benefits intheir own situations, and I have always said that apples to apples comparison are difficult in life scenarios. I only raised my points to refute those that seem to ignore such peculiarities. My preference is to judge a manager or player for what he has achieved given his specific scenario (both benefit and challenges). For example, I dont fault Moyes for failing to deliver silverware given the roster he had (as I felt SAF had squeezed out the last juice from those players) but what I do fault him for was for failing to improve the squad by bringing in quality players that would help him implement his ideas (instead he was pursuing Bale and CR - WTF!)
So, what you are saying is he can't control the team?
If LVG overachieved then surely the board should have given him another season to sign the "world class" front line he needed to make his philosophy effective?
I read it as trolling tbh.
Porto have always been won of the leading teams in their country. Even after their sell off post Jose, they continued to win back to back titles, 7 in 8 seasons. I believe they are the biggest team in portugal. Inter Milan were THE dominant team in Italy and had something like 5 consecutive titles. Spurs were someone who hoped and prayed they could just get into the CL places. The Champions League wins for Jose were his greatest tactical successes in my opinion, especially since beating Peps Barca. For me that was his best night and I was well behind him.
It is obviously tougher for Poch to win Silverware when he is in a country where many teams have bigger budgets and Tottenham aren't historically one of the leading teams so he is doing a sterling job. If he wins an FA cup then I think he is on the right track. It is still early days and the break down last season was bad, but then these players are not used to these dizzying heights. He is on the right track.
Nah, I say United should have won it by now, really.
Ok maybe second is pushing it, but third. If we took all those draws at home where we dominated, we would be third.
Well, United are shit for a team with our resources, and struggling against fellow underachievers. The power balance, so to speak, could very well remain the same (or similar) if we manage to become an actual top team again - because our rivals could do the same - but at the moment the state of those rivals is something United should take advantage of: It's certainly not a valid excuse for our struggles.
If Sunderland could turn all those defeats into wins they'd be up there too
Shouldas, couldas and wouldas never win anything. The league does not lie!
It's interesting that Mourinho got the four main targets he wanted in the summer but yet is now saying his forwards aren't scoring enough. Surely, that's his fault though? He spent a tremendous amount of money on those targets.
Shouldn't such a great manager (and he sure says a lot how marvelous he is) have anticipated that his current squad will have problems in front of goal? What was the weird thing at the start of the season with him and Mkhitaryan and why has Martial regressed so much under him? Those are simple but fair questions United fans deserve an answer for.
Shouldn't such a great manager (and he sure says a lot how marvelous he is) have anticipated that his current squad will have problems in front of goal? What was the weird thing at the start of the season with him and Mkhitaryan and why has Martial regressed so much under him? Those are simple but fair questions United fans deserve an answer for.
Exactly. Sick of excuses. We are where we are because we aren't good enough to be higher, and that says a lot.
He said attackers aren't scoring lot of goals which is true. Apart from Zlatan other attackers haven't contributed much in goal scoring dept.
So manager should anticipate everything and get it right in the first season?
Bold part: Chelsea fans have lot of problems with their ex manager. Trying their utmost best with all the cheap shots.
Do you not think that City and Liverpool are also bemoaning the fact that they screwed up opportunities to score plenty more goals and pick up more points?
Chelsea will win the PL because they've managed games well and had a bit of luck, injuries wise.
Nooooooooooo.
I agree with most of that.
I usually bring that kind of point to people who said our squad was shit and need to replace to 'score more'. Well, that means we need to replace his 3 of 4 signings as well?
People talk about how great he is in signings and they are part of if not main the problem that we can't score atm.
I don't say they are shit or we don't need any new players at all.
In fact we made 2nd most chances in the league but no, the squad is shit.
Well, it hardly makes sense and it is pretty weird anyway with some people making their points with all of those.
You have to give a manager time to assess the situation, and hopefully rectify mistakes from his first season.
Moyes tried to be the big man changing everything, had nothing to offer and we were getting progressively worse. Going from 1st to 7th was a disgrace, with basically the same players. There was no way the club could of given him a second season.
VG first season had some good bits and it looked like the 2nd season we would kick on, playing good football, and ...but it didnt, it was dire and lets leave it at that.
Mourinho has improved our style of play overall, we moved on from creating very few chances, to the 2nd highest in the league. Also won a trophy and maybe we will finish with 2 and maybe top 4. Hopefully next season we can convert these chances a lot more and win more trophies.
He bought 4 players in who havent played in the Premier before (Pogba played 5-6 years ago in 2-3 games) and marking out of 10 for the season so far, I would give Zlatan 8 the rest 6/10, hopefully they will kick on, Zlatan may leave of course.
Yes there are problems. Sometimes we play it too slow going forward and still pass it 10-12 times around the back ala VG style, instead of moving it forward quickly.
Martial for whatever reason has regressed, thats why Mourhino reluctantly plays him. Is that Mourinho though? Is it Martials head, going through a divorce and not seeing his kid? Is it 2nd season syndrome? or is it he was a flash in the pan, who other teams defenders now know how to play him?
Shaw. Is that Mourinho? Or is it he hasnt shown enough in training, or has the leg break made him mentally weak?.
Rashford. I think he has had loads of chances by Mourinho and I think its just bad finishing by him, along with some defenders knowing now how to play him. Maybe 2nd season syndrome has gotten to him. Its up to him to move on next season.
Lets see what happens in the summer and ultimately next season. Then we will know if he is the 'special' one or the 'hasbeen' one. I have a feeling next season will be a good one for us. Mind you I thought the same with VG lol
Moyes tried to be the big man changing everything, had nothing to offer and we were getting progressively worse. Going from 1st to 7th was a disgrace, with basically the same players. There was no way the club could of given him a second season.
VG first season had some good bits and it looked like the 2nd season we would kick on, playing good football, and ...but it didnt, it was dire and lets leave it at that.
Mourinho has improved our style of play overall, we moved on from creating very few chances, to the 2nd highest in the league. Also won a trophy and maybe we will finish with 2 and maybe top 4. Hopefully next season we can convert these chances a lot more and win more trophies.
He bought 4 players in who havent played in the Premier before (Pogba played 5-6 years ago in 2-3 games) and marking out of 10 for the season so far, I would give Zlatan 8 the rest 6/10, hopefully they will kick on, Zlatan may leave of course.
Yes there are problems. Sometimes we play it too slow going forward and still pass it 10-12 times around the back ala VG style, instead of moving it forward quickly.
Martial for whatever reason has regressed, thats why Mourhino reluctantly plays him. Is that Mourinho though? Is it Martials head, going through a divorce and not seeing his kid? Is it 2nd season syndrome? or is it he was a flash in the pan, who other teams defenders now know how to play him?
Shaw. Is that Mourinho? Or is it he hasnt shown enough in training, or has the leg break made him mentally weak?.
Rashford. I think he has had loads of chances by Mourinho and I think its just bad finishing by him, along with some defenders knowing now how to play him. Maybe 2nd season syndrome has gotten to him. Its up to him to move on next season.
Lets see what happens in the summer and ultimately next season. Then we will know if he is the 'special' one or the 'hasbeen' one. I have a feeling next season will be a good one for us. Mind you I thought the same with VG lol
Fair enough but it's also worth considering the fact that buying the world's most expensive players comes with its own challenges, distractions and complications. People are always quick to equate spending big budgets with winning automatically. But I think that's looking at only one side of having much money to spend. People forget it comes with pressure, criticisms, unrealistic expectations, big egos to manage and the constant threat of being fired. Football has shown us that spending the most money in the transfer market does not equate with automatically winning. There are few managers who can manage very big teams well.
Maybe. Maybe not.
When a team fails to follow a manager's instructions, it is due to one of the following: the manager can't control his players, the players are not good enough or they are simply having a bad spell.
After the seeing the shameful lineup he's putting out against the league leaders I think he should be called the spineless one from now on.
Does Jose have any reason to play games with the board - in terms of team selection, dealing with the press, selecting captains? I.e. is there any evidence that the board won't be willing to back him 100% in the summer with significant investment?
- Status