Who the hell is that?
just listened to the first 5 mins and the bloke says the words ‘guessing’ and ‘possibly’ about 10 times.
Is Pochettino's time at Spurs coming to an end?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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just listened to the first 5 mins and the bloke says the words ‘guessing’ and ‘possibly’ about 10 times.
Who are the people involved with the podcast? I won't have time to listen to it? Are they reliable?
Under no circumstances can a manager be regarded as 2nd or 3rd best in the world, without winning anything.
He’s a very good manager but it’s not like he took Hartlepool to the CL quarters.
Whats the creditability of this blog?
You're not getting Kane. There's a zero percent chance of that happening.
In no known universe does Daniel Levy see his manager leave to United, and sell the crown jewel at the club as well to you. It just doesn't.
He has a long contract and loves the club, if he wants to go it'll likely be abroad or maybe to a City if they massively overpaid. Kane to United is a ridiculous pipe dream.
Because he hasn’t won anything, even a measly Carling Cup since he became a manager.
Agreed. The impression I got from Poch is that his teams are really good until faced with pressure. As soon as that happens, they crumble.
This is what I believe, but right now I would give Poch a shot. He’s miles better than Ole, plus he’s already used to working with a stingy owner and limited resources.
Tough to argue getting Pochettino wouldn't be a big upgrade for us.
There are a lot of circumstances that that can happen. Overachieving is one of those circumstances and Pochettino has overachieved with his Spurs squad. That is why he is recognized as one of the best manager in the world. Spurs is no Hartepool, but it will probably take another 100 years for a team like Spurs to reach the champions league final.
All it takes is for United to be back in the champions league, tons of cash and Spurs showing no sign of ambition for Kane to come here. It is not a pipe dream. I am sure many people are in Kane ears telling him to leave and that will have an effect on his decision. I am sure Ferdinand isn’t the only one telling him that he should move.
Without listening to any of it he’s all wrong for united. Hasn’t won shit, losing control of his current squad after 4 years. He is not the answer.
Nope. He has a long contract. Offer as much money as you want.
Again, Kane has a lot of affection for the club. If he leaves Levy would look to sell him abroad and would accept lower bids rather than sell him to a Poch led United. This has been our policy for a very long time.
I doubt Kane gives two shits what Ferdinand has said. Kane absolutely is not the kind of player to throw a hissy fit at the club and won't force a move out. So yes, it is a pipe dream that we would sell our best player to United, and it goes against a clear policy that the club has. And honestly I highly doubt Kane is even interested in following Poch to another club after the way shit is going here.
Eh?
Atletico Madrid did it twice, Klopp’s Dortmund, Mourinho’s Porto... hardly 100
years.
He’s a very good manager but there’s no need to over exaggerate everything just to hail his accomplishments, impressive as they may be, he still hasn’t won anything, Klopp and Diego Simeone did.
Klopp and Guardiola are miles ahead of Poch.
What Simeone has done at Atletico is also significantly more impressive. And they're just the three I can think of that are basically unarguable unless you have the biggest boner for Poch going.
And no, this isn't an opinion that I've only decided on now he's doing badly with us, at no point has Poch ever accomplished feats that put him up there with those 3 managers.
What Simeone has done at Atletico is also significantly more impressive. And they're just the three I can think of that are basically unarguable unless you have the biggest boner for Poch going.
And no, this isn't an opinion that I've only decided on now he's doing badly with us, at no point has Poch ever accomplished feats that put him up there with those 3 managers.
Not saying that you are wrong or anything but similar things were said about Poch at some point in the past (not that distant). Now you can see that he will leave given the option.
Things change in football too quickly. Nothing lasts for long. 1 or more seasons like this and something might turn Kane's head (again, not saying United). You lot don't look like winning anything just like United and currently its debatable that Spurs are in a comfortably better spot than us.
What happens when Kane decides that he wants out and wants to stay in the league? Would Levy pass on the opportunity to make 150-200m?
A manager leaving is very different to a player leaving. If a manager wants to go he will .. there's little a club can do about it. I said as much about Poch when he was linked to United. And honestly the reports about Poch wanting to go are all poor sources, he's clearly failing at the club so it's just as likely he gets sacked as he walks out. Personally I think his big dream was Madrid, not United, and he's kind of waiting about at Spurs for that seat to be free. United would be a huge fecking gamble for him, fail there and his stock will be terribly low after the way it's gone at Spurs.
If he wants out and wants to stay in the league he won't kick up a fuss to get it. It isn't in his nature and he's not about to destroy his relationship with the club to get a move. Maybe if you offered 200m Levy would consider it, but equally why the feck would Kane (who if he goes primarily would be moving for trophies) go to ANOTHER project under Poch who has not proven capable of winning trophies in his career. Honestly if he goes I expect it'll be somewhere where he's pretty much guaranteed silverware to end his career, not a project, not a big club who need reviving, the finished article.
Kane to Spurs is just an incredibly unlikely transfer for so many reasons. If I get proven wrong on that fair enough, but I can't see it happening in a million years.
Something maybe a bit controversial, but I actually think that Pochettino is an average manager and that in the past couple of seasons, it was his players' quality that pushed the team to top 4 finishes.
In my opinion, the main job that a manager, in any field, has to do is manage crisis. SAF was EXCELLENT at that! Klopp is fanastic as well and Guardiolla might not be the same level, but is not terrible as many tend to believe. Conte for example was not good at it. He is gifted at understanding the game, but his EI is not there to help him realise that he needs to tailor his message differently now that he is not a player but a manager especially in today's world where people are much more fragile (especially well paid footballers). Similar and probably even worse problem is seen in another midfield legend, named Roy Keane.
Next to that, the second most important thing imo, is vision. Pochettino simply lacks it. It is simple as that. He cannot inspire long term (not talking 20 years of strategy, but rather 3-4 years of A path that makes the players feel part of something bigger than themselves) and this is another reason why Spurs have at least one or two periods every season where they are out of ideas an lose many games in a row. Especially consistently winning at home, no matter what, is a key to all successful managers.
Guardiola is a manager that excels in creating a long term ambition. Mourinho was never a top "crisis manager", but he was top tier when it came to pushing his vision to the team. At points it even felt as if he could brainwash a whole squad of adults! Wenger used to be very good at it, before he goes nuts and more recently, Nuno Espírito Santo is another good example, just to name a few. On the other hand, managers like Pellegrini or Mancini have serious flaws in their approach.
Unfortunately for Pochettino, he lacks both crisis management skills and vision. Even if he ends up at a better team and wins a trophy or two (which I doubt), I think his management legacy will be limited.
In my opinion, the main job that a manager, in any field, has to do is manage crisis. SAF was EXCELLENT at that! Klopp is fanastic as well and Guardiolla might not be the same level, but is not terrible as many tend to believe. Conte for example was not good at it. He is gifted at understanding the game, but his EI is not there to help him realise that he needs to tailor his message differently now that he is not a player but a manager especially in today's world where people are much more fragile (especially well paid footballers). Similar and probably even worse problem is seen in another midfield legend, named Roy Keane.
Next to that, the second most important thing imo, is vision. Pochettino simply lacks it. It is simple as that. He cannot inspire long term (not talking 20 years of strategy, but rather 3-4 years of A path that makes the players feel part of something bigger than themselves) and this is another reason why Spurs have at least one or two periods every season where they are out of ideas an lose many games in a row. Especially consistently winning at home, no matter what, is a key to all successful managers.
Guardiola is a manager that excels in creating a long term ambition. Mourinho was never a top "crisis manager", but he was top tier when it came to pushing his vision to the team. At points it even felt as if he could brainwash a whole squad of adults! Wenger used to be very good at it, before he goes nuts and more recently, Nuno Espírito Santo is another good example, just to name a few. On the other hand, managers like Pellegrini or Mancini have serious flaws in their approach.
Unfortunately for Pochettino, he lacks both crisis management skills and vision. Even if he ends up at a better team and wins a trophy or two (which I doubt), I think his management legacy will be limited.
yea in a league that isn’t as competitive as the premier league. I don’t want to play hypothetical but with the way Poch has organized his Spurs team, he would have won something with that Klopp or Madrid team. But, regardless as I stated before there are many circumstances that winning trophies doesn’t equate to being a top manager.
Poch and Kane have an incredible relationship. Poch has transformed Kane into the player he is. It is ridiculous to assume that he won’t follow him to another club especially one that is more ambitious than Spurs.The signs of flaws in Poch have been there for years for anyone willing to observe them so I have no problem believing that there are skeptical Spurs supporters who aren't kneejerking.
I've got my explanation down to a single sentence: Poch turned a top 6 team into a top 4 team while winning nothing, after uncovering a world class source of goals from under his nose. The spine of the legendary XI was also naturally progressing into their peak when Poch arrived.
Looking solely at Kane's goals, let alone everything else he's brought to the team over the years, it's clear that he is such a strong confounding variable - capable of making the difference between top 6 and top 4 on his own in a team without an elite striker - that it's difficult to extricate what Poch has actually done. When you have a new manager come in at the same time (effectively) as a player who scores up to 40% of your goals, the correlation between subsequent success and the manager is very fuzzy. Inferring causality becomes nigh impossible. The Poch era is basically the Poch + Kane era.
Anyway, I've been wondering for almost two years now - after it became clear that the rapid improvement had plateaued and that Poch wasn't going to address it proactively - whether a different manager could've won something by now with the golden generation of players. As things at Spurs have followed a logarithmic downhill curve since then, my opinion of Poch as a manager, especially a tactician, has also gone downhill. And now I'm inclined to answer my wondering with a "yes", or at least a "maybe".
Oh yeah he's really got Kane pressing and working hard right now .. oh wait, Kane looks as fecked off with his methods as everybody else.
And at the moment United are hardly showing much more ambition than Spurs and the ambition you have shown has hardly come off. If Kane goes it will be to a team who are the finished article, not another project under the same manager he's been with for ages. Players don't follow managers around like poodles, it's not all that common that a manager moves and takes stars with him to the new club.
Bet Kane can't wait to move somewhere else where he can play in a diamond. Fecking woop.
yea in a league that isn’t as competitive as the premier league. I don’t want to play hypothetical but with the way Poch has organized his Spurs team, he would have won something with that Klopp or Madrid team. But, regardless as I stated before there are many circumstances that winning trophies doesn’t equate to being a top manager.
Kane doesn’t need united
La Liga? It’s as competitive as the Premier League and Poch hasn’t even won the premier league.
There are no ifs and buts or maybes in football, Poch hasn’t won anything, literally nothing, Simeone did, under incredibly difficult circumstances competing against two giants, and he made a team with a far tighter budget than Real and Barcelona compete in that league and reach two CL finals.
Also Manchester United are not buying Harry Kane, he would go to City or Real Madrid or maybe he’ll do a “Shearer”, but we’re surely not spending 200m or whatever Levy would want for him, not a chance.
And I doubt he would be eager to join a team that probably won’t even compete for the league until he is well into his 30s.
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I like Poch a lot as a coach, he's never been perfect but I do genuinely believe he's done incredible work for us. But comparing him to managers who have won trophy after trophy, or Simeone who took Atletico to a league title and multiple cl finals while up against the likes of Barca and Madrid? Nah. He's not got to that level yet, and it's stupid comparing him to the guys who have had that success. What he built at Spurs was impressive but nothing more, he needed to be the difference maker as a manager in the big moments for those comparisons.
And what do you realistically expect Tottenham to have won in this time where City have dominated the league. Or Southampton, when he was there?
Pochettino doesn't like the DoF model does he? If we get him we would have to sacrifice that idea, presuming it is even remotely possible that Ed would hire one...
He is a nobody, he has no more knowledge of football than the average poster on here, he just talks shit via a podcast than a forum.
Nowhere near until he actually wins anything.
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I am guessing you are responding to @Amadaeus here, mate just ignore him this place is much better off without reading his ramblings, I mean I don't think I have EVER seen a poster support a manager more than his own club
.He went to Spurs who aren't really trophy challengers and has made them into challengers.
He is losing control, maybe you are looking at it from outside without actually knowing why he is losing control?
When you have players in the last year of the contract, futures of players uncertain, accusations on players sleeping with another players wife, players who do not want to be there.
Majority of them are not in his control.
What he has done with some of the players in transforming them is impressive.
From the candidates being discussed (Darren Fletcher, etc) it doesn't seem that Ed is looking to put in place a proper 'powerful' DoF, more someone to keep the fans happy that we're trying to keep the United way and someone for the manager to bounce ideas off, so Poch doesn't need to worry about that
I read, a few years back, that Chelsea had a secret policy of never allowing a manager to dominate the club (no matter how successful or high-profile a manager became); I wonder if Woodward & co have a similar policy?
Dortmund did it in 2013 under Jürgen Klopp with a team that cost around £40M to build. And just the season before Liverpool went to the final, when absolutely nobody had given them a chance to do so at the start of the season.
Yes Poch did a good job in the CL last season, but lets not pretend he's some miracle worker standing alone in the whole of Europen football, doing things no one else has or will do again.
You've cited three huge factors and dismissed them as little things under "all it takes".
The first (United to be back in the champions league) is unlikely to happen for next season (yet again) - which begs the question as to when it will next happen, seeing as United not playing in the CL is a fairly common thing these days.
The second (tons of cash) is related to the first, since the lack of CL football represents a big loss of income and comes at a time when United's income-growth is stalling and the club's financial advantage over rival clubs is shrinking and looks set to shrink further.
The 3rd item (Spurs showing no sign of ambition) iwon't happen. We signed NDombele, Lo Celso and Sessegnon in the summer, spending more in net terms than for many years, and our rising income will permit spending on the squad at much greater levels from here onwards.
To be fair on him he did build a very entertaining team at Southampton even the all mighty Liverpool is based around couple of their players.
Value of cost in 2013 is alot different to 2018 mate. in the space of 5 years transfer fees have increased massively.
You are a Dortmund fan who fails to mention Dortmund won 2 Bundesliga titles before the champions league final with a team consisting of Hummels, Gundogon, Goteze, Reus, Perisic, Lewandowski. The summer Sahin, Reus were also bought.
Poch spent no money last season, did not win anything leading up to the season either.
The Dortmund team was quite successful at the time of reaching the final.
Liverpool - You can say they did not spend the money? It's not like they spent £40m on Salah, £35m on Ox, Robbo and VVD. Not like they spent money on Mane, Firminho and the rest the season before?
Liverpool have 6 champions League medals for a reason mate.
Yes I am aware transfer fees changed drastically, but that was still a pittance in 2013. You know that, as I do! Have a look at what some other teams where spending in 2013. It was an amazing squad built with little. And yes, I also know what Dortmund won, all thanks to the coach and the team he and the sporting director built - on so little money, during a period the club wheren't able to spend freely. Not sure how them winning league titles (which again - no one expected them to - the one in 2011 especially) makes it less of an achievement. In 2013 no one expected Dortmund to get to that final, like no one expected Spurs to get to last years final, or Liverpool the one before. If they say they did - it's revisonism.
Not sure what past European cups won had to do with LFC getting to the last 2 finals by the way. They hadn't won one since 2005. Did I say they didn't spend money? No, I did not. They spent it really well, much of it with money they got for players they sold, the squad they have now is a great example of squad building without a bottomless pit of money.
Spurs spent money too by the way and Poch had a really good squad to work with, he wasn't coaching a bunch of scrubs last season.
My point, as I am sure you know, was to point out that other coaches have done and will do what he did last season - take an underdog to a final. It was done the season before, it was done by Simmeone, it was done by Klopp at Dortmund, it will be done again. If you want to debate that point, then fair enough, but your above post wasn't debating that.
And as I said - and have frequently said, Poch is a really good coach, but sometimes one or two here - and we know who the main protagonist is, go way over the top.
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If we can get Pochettino, we should do it. He's the best manager out there who might be available. He's up there with Klopp as the world's best manager right now.
I'm happy to give Ole a few more games to try and turn it around. If he can then give the job to him until the summer. But Ole has already shown he's not up to it. He could be an elite manager one day but right now he is not that.
You look at Marco Rose. Just arrived at Mönchengladbach. Already has them top of the pile. Early signs are that Ole is out of his depth.
I'm happy to give Ole a few more games to try and turn it around. If he can then give the job to him until the summer. But Ole has already shown he's not up to it. He could be an elite manager one day but right now he is not that.
You look at Marco Rose. Just arrived at Mönchengladbach. Already has them top of the pile. Early signs are that Ole is out of his depth.
No one is disputing what Dortmund did, they were a fantastic team and deserved to win the final in my opinion on how they approached the football those few seasons.
Agreed on the spending, it was money spent really well by Dortmund but no one was surprised they got to the final, it might not have been expected but considering how well Dortmund were doing at that time, it was no shock. Same with Atheletico, they won the title and got to 2 finals of the CL so I am not surprised they got to one.
In terms of Poch, he won't be the only manager to do it, I agree because it is a cup competition and luck of the draw and luck during games plays a part. If you remember the close game V Malaga that season same with Spurs Vs City and Ajax.
But what is clear to see, not any manager can take underdogs to a CL final like that, they have to be really good. Klopp is one of the best managers around, and you could say Simeone is up there as a top top coach. Poch is now getting up there, but he needs to do it consistently not just a one off.
Then he left in 2015.
Poch may well feel the same as Klopp did.
Time for a new challenge.
I really wish i could be a fly in the dressing room at Spurs though, considering their apparent meltdown this season.
Did the players down tools? Did Poch lose his mojo? Is it just terrible form? And whatever it is, why?
Did the players down tools? Did Poch lose his mojo? Is it just terrible form? And whatever it is, why?
It's extremely rare for a manager to keep performing at the same club for more than 5 years or so. Ferguson as always is the exception to the rule.
Pochettino is obviously going through a tough time at Spurs and as a team they seem to be past their prime under him. That's partly a lack of transfer business and partly things going stale probably.
The best managers of the last 10 years, Mourinho, Guardiola, Ancelotti, Klopp have all had great success in a 3-5 year period then either walked away or lost the plot. I don't think Spurs current form should harm his reputation in any way, as it was inevitable.
Pochettino is obviously going through a tough time at Spurs and as a team they seem to be past their prime under him. That's partly a lack of transfer business and partly things going stale probably.
The best managers of the last 10 years, Mourinho, Guardiola, Ancelotti, Klopp have all had great success in a 3-5 year period then either walked away or lost the plot. I don't think Spurs current form should harm his reputation in any way, as it was inevitable.
From what i have seen of Spurs and Poch, his problem is still how they attack in the final third.
While Spurs are excellent off the ball and in the build up, as soon as they are attacking against a deep and balanced defence it looks like Moyseh vs Fulham in 2014.
The lack of developement or progression in this area, while having creative and technical players similar to City when everyone is fit, Spurs as a team and Pochettinho as a manager will continue to be a "almost team".
While Spurs are excellent off the ball and in the build up, as soon as they are attacking against a deep and balanced defence it looks like Moyseh vs Fulham in 2014.
The lack of developement or progression in this area, while having creative and technical players similar to City when everyone is fit, Spurs as a team and Pochettinho as a manager will continue to be a "almost team".
On no planet is a Spurs player to United a "pipe dream", but it certainly doesn't look a deal that will happen soon.
Knowing us, we'll get him when he's totally declining
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