Is Pogba as good as gone?

Rozay said:
Well that’s a question he can easily answer. The long and short is, if he was not going against Ole’s wishes by being in Miami - then it doesn’t have to be clandestine. He’s allowed to take a photo while he’s there. It’s controversial for shit-stirrers who would like to create a narrative that he isn’t allowed to be there. If you accept that he was allowed to be there, then, you should not find it easy to accept that he’s allowed to take a photo with Pharrell. It’s a nothing story and a million miles away from Jesse and Mason. He’s not ‘disobeyed orders’, don’t be ridiculous.
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No one says he went against Ole's wishes by going Miami. But when Ole says he would rather his players more boring, its undeniably against those instructions when you're snapping with A listed celebs and shooting hoops in major stadiums. It's not even a debate. You can point to others who did wrong but that doesn't make Pogba's post any more right.

Again, as standalone posts it's not an issue but if it's days after Ole said not to go crazy on social media then it's poor form.
 
VP89 said:
No one says he went against Ole's wishes by going Miami. But when Ole says he would rather his players more boring, its undeniably against those instructions when you're snapping with A listed celebs and shooting hoops in major stadiums. It's not even a debate. You can point to others who did wrong but that doesn't make Pogba's post any more right.

Again, as standalone posts it's not an issue but if it's days after Ole said not to go crazy on social media then it's poor form.
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It’s poor form if Ole thinks the posts were a problem. Pogba has a great relationship with Ole, and there hasn’t been the slightest indication that they were at odds over it.

It’s not ‘others who have done wrong’, I am making the distinction between those who have done wrong and those who haven’t. Pogba taking a picture with Pharrell is fine. It does not bring the club into disrepute. Mason and Jesse did. Ole has no right to tell his players what to post beyond that, and I doubt he would even try. You are fighting a battle for him that he has no desire to fight himself. Ole made his comments following being questioned about Mason I believe. Him not liking that stuff doesn’t mean he has a problem with what Pogba posted, obviously because they are incomparable. If taking a pic with Pharrell is ‘going crazy on social media’ to you, then you need to get out more.
 
For whatever reasons a player doesn't want to be at a club then of course he's entitled to choose another path but what you don't do is go public every time you feel like it which to me shows a complete lack of respect and loyalty not only to the club but to the fan base as well. 3 times in the last 2 years (that we know of) he's flaunted with leaving the club yet people are still using the racist card as to why Pogba isn't universally accepted as someone who deserves respect. Life is so much easier when tarring people with the racist brush to suit agendas instead of focusing on the actual problem. To earn respect you first have to give it. It really is that simple. Below there's 3 reasons why in this moment in time for me Pogba will be nothing more than a footnote when his time at United is done. Nothing to do with race or nationality.


January 2018
Manchester City were offered the chance to sign Manchester United's Paul Pogba during the January transfer window

September 2018
My future is currently in Manchester, I still have a contract, I'm playing there at the moment, but who knows what will happen in the next few months."

July 2019
Paul Pogba's agent Mino Raiola says they "are in the process" of facilitating a move away from Manchester United, confirming that the Frenchman wants to leave Old Trafford.
 
clarkydaz said:
jones has supposedly turned down his own testimonial due to how unpopular he is, not Rooneys
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Got it, I misread that sentence. But that's beside the point that I made people acting badly towards our players doesn't mean that they are doing it the same way for all players and it doesn't mean that sometimes it's not totally irrational. As @Rozay mentioned, De Gea not only tried but was on the verge of leaving, he also tried to squeeze as much money as he could when he finally decided that he was going to stay but people aren't really on his back 24/7 or questioning his morality, which is by the way totally fine for me, he is a professional footballers they have careers to manage and money to make.
As a general rule I don't consider that players owe us loyalty, they don't owe us special commitment either, they have a contract and the club control them during its course but that's about it. I don't mind it if players want to leave for money, trophies or personal reasons because we all do the same things in our professional lives. The only thing that bothers me is when players do what Lukaku did with the training data it's not professional but even then he made a mistake and it happens or when they are on strike like Berbatov when he wanted to join us or Ronaldo and the slave comment.
 
Forevergiggs1 said:
For whatever reasons a player doesn't want to be at a club then of course he's entitled to choose another path but what you don't do is go public every time you feel like it which to me shows a complete lack of respect and loyalty not only to the club but to the fan base as well. 3 times in the last 2 years (that we know of) he's flaunted with leaving the club yet people are still using the racist card as to why Pogba isn't universally accepted as someone who deserves respect. Life is so much easier when tarring people with the racist brush to suit agendas instead of focusing on the actual problem. To earn respect you first have to give it. It really is that simple. Below there's 3 reasons why in this moment in time for me Pogba will be nothing more than a footnote when his time at United is done. Nothing to do with race or nationality.


January 2018
Manchester City were offered the chance to sign Manchester United's Paul Pogba during the January transfer window

September 2018
My future is currently in Manchester, I still have a contract, I'm playing there at the moment, but who knows what will happen in the next few months."

July 2019
Paul Pogba's agent Mino Raiola says they "are in the process" of facilitating a move away from Manchester United, confirming that the Frenchman wants to leave Old Trafford.
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On the bolded part it's wrong and listen to what Marcotti says here.
 
Rozay said:
It’s poor form if Ole thinks the posts were a problem. Pogba has a great relationship with Ole, and there hasn’t been the slightest indication that they were at odds over it.

It’s not ‘others who have done wrong’, I am making the distinction between those who have done wrong and those who haven’t. Pogba taking a picture with Pharrell is fine. It does not bring the club into disrepute. Mason and Jesse did. Ole has no right to tell his players what to post beyond that, and I doubt he would even try. You are fighting a battle for him that he has no desire to fight himself. Ole made his comments following being questioned about Mason I believe. Him not liking that stuff doesn’t mean he has a problem with what Pogba posted, obviously because they are incomparable. If taking a pic with Pharrell is ‘going crazy on social media’ to you, then you need to get out more.
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Why would Ole openly say it's a problem? At the end of the day he went against the manager instructions and despite you suggesting it wasnt contraversial, it certainly did attract contraversy.

Do you really think Ole after seeing the basketball video wasn't thinking "fecksake youre not making it easy for me"?

It's not a major cross of a line to be honest, it's really minor. But when we are talking about the context of attitude I think we should be fair. He was more than exemplary in the summer despite wanting to move and that was well documented. But there are instances where you think, what are you doing? This was one of them.
 
JPRouve said:
On the bolded part it's wrong and listen to what Marcotti says here.
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That is a serious level of mental gymnastics from Marcotti. When a player says something along the lines of "who knows what could happen in the next couple of months" it's so blatantly obvious what he's trying to say. Even the host called him out on it with that answer.
 
VP89 said:
Why would Ole openly say it's a problem? At the end of the day he went against the manager instructions and despite you suggesting it wasnt contraversial, it certainly did attract contraversy.

Do you really think Ole after seeing the basketball video wasn't thinking "fecksake youre not making it easy for me"?

It's not a major cross of a line to be honest, it's really minor. But when we are talking about the context of attitude I think we should be fair. He was more than exemplary in the summer despite wanting to move and that was well documented. But there are instances where you think, what are you doing? This was one of them.
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I disagree. The posts were nothing, and to be fair, were generally treated as such. The only questions I’ve seen of it are from a few online conspiracy theorists who can’t compute beyond ‘if he’s injured, why is he in Miami?’. As for the club, they don’t have such questions and probably have no concerns. Why on Earth would Ole think ‘you’re making it hard for me’ because he took a pic with Pharrell.

Sorry to bring up things like culture again - but to me this is just more of people deciding what is acceptable based on their own lives/likes. If Pogba took a picture with Mick Hucknall and said ‘legend’, I doubt this would be a conversation. This is one of the issues with the internet in general. Everyone feels entitled to a say on how everyone lives their lives. Pharrell is a celeb but probably the wrong kind of celeb to a few media. But too hip-hop perhaps. There are things that are appropriate of course, and Mason saying ‘you want some cock’ is the wrong side of that. People don’t get a say on Pogba taking a picture with a rapper. Like ‘who do you think you are?’. It’s not controversial at all. It’s only controversial if he was not supposed to be there, and there is no indication he wasn’t. Beyond that, you or Ole have no right to say what picture he can take. If offence is taken, that’s your problem , not Pogba’s.
 
JPRouve said:
On the bolded part it's wrong and listen to what Marcotti says here.
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Marcotti may be right but so too could the rest of the pundits. In the beginning it was mentioned that Pogbas comments were adding fuel to the fire which is something I agree with. Maybe I'm wrong but personally I don't think Pogba is that naive to think his comments wouldn't have ramifications and can be interpreted in different ways when the most sensible reply would of been, I'm a Manchester United player period, instead of adding some subliminal message which was said to provoke reactions.
 
VP89 said:
That is a serious level of mental gymnastics from Marcotti. When a player says something along the lines of "who knows what could happen in the next couple of months" it's so blatantly obvious what he's trying to say. Even the host called him out on it with that answer.
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It's not though, he was asked about the future with Mourinho, he said that his own future was with Manchester United but that you never know what can happen in the future. The problem here is that people completely ignored the question.
He doesn't even say in the "next couple of months", that part is pure fabrication.
 
Forevergiggs1 said:
Marcotti may be right but so too could the rest of the pundits. In the beginning it was mentioned that Pogbas comments were adding fuel to the fire which is something I agree with. Maybe I'm wrong but personally I don't think Pogba is that naive to think his comments wouldn't have ramifications and can be interpreted in different ways when the most sensible reply would of been, I'm a Manchester United player period, instead of adding some subliminal message which was said to provoke reactions.
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There is no may or may not, the other pundits are literally using fabricated quotes.
 
Yeah, I remember that.

The "quote" amounts to a translation of a dubbed (German) interview. Pogba was originally interviewed in French. And as JP comments above, he didn't say "couple of months" - and he was mainly answering questions about his relationship with Mourinho.
 
Time to step up for him. Has obviously been said several time during his time here, but I feel that now is the last chance to make this work. I think all parties feel that way.
Could be the last piece of the puzzle we need in our starting eleven to elevate the good performances of late to turn draws into wins. I know we could use a couple of signings, but with the new setup in midfield, I really think Pogba could excel in front of Fred and McTominay.
 
Quoting answers without the corresponding questions is generally a bad idea. Unless your game is to deliberately mislead people and stir up shit, that is.
 
JPRouve said:
It's not though, he was asked about the future with Mourinho, he said that his own future was with Manchester United but that you never know what can happen in the future. The problem here is that people completely ignored the question.
He doesn't even say in the "next couple of months", that part is pure fabrication.
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I'm only going by what Marcotti says as you mentioned we should listen to his take.. and Marcotti says he was asked "where do you see your future and why do you think Manchester United are doing so bad right now". Marcotti says he answered "My future is with Manchester United but lets see what happens in a couple of months".

Again, I'm only going by Marcotti's answer here, I don't even remember this interview. But if it went the way Marcotti said it did then Marcotti's own evaluation is a bizzare take on the matter. It's abundantly clear Pogba has wanted out for some time regardless.
 
JPRouve said:
There is no may or may not, the other pundits are literally using fabricated quotes.
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Fabricated? How so? I see in your reply to VP89 that Pogba didn't mention anything about, "the next couple of months."

According to every news media outlet on the planet that quote was mentioned but unfortunately it's not something I can double check because I can't find the interview with sky sports Germany and if I could I wouldn't understand it if it was in French/German but I can't see how the media got it so wrong because that part is a fundamental part of the interview which caused so much unrest.
 
Rozay said:
I disagree. The posts were nothing, and to be fair, were generally treated as such. The only questions I’ve seen of it are from a few online conspiracy theorists who can’t compute beyond ‘if he’s injured, why is he in Miami?’. As for the club, they don’t have such questions and probably have no concerns. Why on Earth would Ole think ‘you’re making it hard for me’ because he took a pic with Pharrell.

Sorry to bring up things like culture again - but to me this is just more of people deciding what is acceptable based on their own lives/likes. If Pogba took a picture with Mick Hucknall and said ‘legend’, I doubt this would be a conversation. This is one of the issues with the internet in general. Everyone feels entitled to a say on how everyone lives their lives. Pharrell is a celeb but probably the wrong kind of celeb to a few media. But too hip-hop perhaps. There are things that are appropriate of course, and Mason saying ‘you want some cock’ is the wrong side of that. People don’t get a say on Pogba taking a picture with a rapper. Like ‘who do you think you are?’. It’s not controversial at all. It’s only controversial if he was not supposed to be there, and there is no indication he wasn’t. Beyond that, you or Ole have no right to say what picture he can take. If offence is taken, that’s your problem , not Pogba’s.
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I referred to the basketball point. You can tell Ole was uncomfortable replying to that presser, he said a bizzare thing like "you can't twist your ankle playing basketball" or something similar. It was really uneasy to watch and yes, Pogba didn't make it easy for him. Besides, when did I take offence? I'm just saying it's poor form to go against manager instructions. And Ole can have a say on what his players do and don't post.

Also you're trying to claim Ole was only talking about Lingard and Mason because they were talking about having sex. That's not the case, Ole was speaking in general and massively in relation to during the season rather than pre-season. This is what he said:

"Sometimes it seems you’re a footballer, so you can experience so many different things," he said. "It should be quite the contrary - when you’re a footballer you should be proper boring. "You go to bed, you rest, you recover and you get ready for the next game. That’s the culture we need to get to."

So if you think that Pogba's celeb posts and basketball posts wasn't against the above then may god help you. Lets just agree to disagree.

There are so many great things about Paul Pogba when he's firing, but there are a lot of things to improve on. I don't think you will ever see him as anything other than perfect anyway, so lets just leave it and enjoy the game.
 
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JPRouve said:
It's not though, he was asked about the future with Mourinho, he said that his own future was with Manchester United but that you never know what can happen in the future. The problem here is that people completely ignored the question.
He doesn't even say in the "next couple of months", that part is pure fabrication.
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Yes. We have to remember that with football agents, it is all about posturing.
The big money is when they manage to engineer a move or new contract for the player.
Don't believe a word that is said or written.
The only thing that will be correct will be the outcome.
 
Pogbas agent says he wants to stay. Gary Neville translates that to he wants to go.

He may or may not want to go. But enough is always said so Gary you’ve been pretty quiet recently how about keeping your personal vendetta out some more.
 
VP89 said:
I'm only going by what Marcotti says as you mentioned we should listen to his take.. and Marcotti says he was asked "where do you see your future and why do you think Manchester United are doing so bad right now". Marcotti says he answered "My future is with Manchester United but lets see what happens in a couple of months".

Again, I'm only going by Marcotti's answer here, I don't even remember this interview. But if it went the way Marcotti said it did then Marcotti's own evaluation is a bizzare take on the matter. It's abundantly clear Pogba has wanted out for some time regardless.
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And as Marcotti said he isn't talking about his future, he was asked questions about his relationship with Mourinho and the disappointing results, he answered diplomatically and then the journalist asked if he imagines his future with Mourinho, that's when he answered that his future is with Manchester United and that outside of that you don't know what the future is made about(that's the closest translation to his terrible grammar). He basically tries to dodge the question.
 
The_Order said:
Are you implying we don't have racist fans?

Did the Men in Black wipe your memories of the events that took place after the penalty miss?

Suggesting that Pogba's ethnicity may play a part in the extra crusader-like venom he receives compared to players that have done worse is a legitimate concern.
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I'm not implying anything of the sort. Just saying how yer man is firing low blows by trying to fall back on the racism card. When it is very clear that there has been no racism whatsoever in this thread. Dunno which penalty you're talking about tbh, there's been a few missed penalties.

Mainoldo said:
Well I’m disappointed in you to as I’ve never claimed anyone in this thread as being racist or called anyone out on it. I just gave my honest opinion and the person I responded to I’m 100 percent sure wasn’t offended neither did they think I was talking about them.

But my opinions the same... and I defend Pogba more because people don’t realise that we’ve been driven to hate the guy because he’s black.

I mean we have a player as talented as KDB but fans get on his back because he’s on social media (Doing frig all by the way) and because he’s inconsistent in an inconsistent team? It don’t wash with me and I don’t think you can honestly tell me you don’t think the same.
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How can you say the hate is being driven by race? Can you show me some examples of that please? I honestly have never seen anything of the sort on here. The mods here are possibly the best mods on any forum on the internet and would never allow such shit! Rooney got just as much shit on here...maybe even more...was thats driven by race too?

Totally agree with your last paragraph, Ive repeatedly stated myself he is one of the best players in the world when he gets in the right frame of mind....but whats that got to do with racism?

The reason he gets so much shit imho, is just because of his "hype" Yes he's a great player at times, so it's very frustrating to see when he just doesnt look bothered. Folk love Wan Bissaka, he's a black guy, but they love him because he gives 100% everytime he is out on the pitch. He messes up at times, but they can easily forgive because they see he is willing to die for the cause!

If Pogba put even half the effort in like Wan B does he would be idolised by a lot more people.

Go back to when he was first coming back to Utd, everyone was excited that he was coming "home" The hate for him only starts because of all the shit that came out in the papers about Madrid and then pretty much "downing tools"

Sad thing is that there is a problem with racism not only in football, but in everyday life too. It really doesn't help though when people cry wolf on the matter just because they are loosing an argument so they use that to try to shut down debate.
 
I only seen the last 10mins today, but the Lad looked fantastic and well up for it. How did he play in the rest of the match?
 
RamblingRebel said:
I only seen the last 10mins today, but the Lad looked fantastic and well up for it. How did he play in the rest of the match?
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He’s MotM in the poll but a country mile, which tells you. Best player on the pitch by an utter mile.
 
does anyone actually blame him for wanting to leave when he’s surrounded by such ineptness? He comes on for a few minutes and already stands out.

he wants to be in a team competing for the title. We either build the team or he leaves and if he does then fair enough frankly.
 
jasT1981 said:
And for some reason Utd fans boo'd him at the end of the game.

Don't blame the guy if he does indeed want out.
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Folks were genuinely arguing that McTominay is a better player for us after the return news broke :lol:

Must be quite depressing being easily the best player in the squad but also the most hated somehow for the silliest reasons imaginable while those who hate give inferior players all the excuses under the sun when they don't perform well as long as they look busy...

The fact that he was MoTM after 26 mins and coming off an injury speaks volumes about his importance to the team yet you'll always still have a sizable portion of fans and talking heads calling for him to be binned the next time he gets dispossessed or gets a new trim.

Must be quite the bleak reality for a player entering his prime...
 
I don't see much improvement on the horizon from the club minus a few young players showing promise. We've been top 4 twice in 6 years and it's looking very likely we'll make it 2 in 7 years. Pogba's first season we're 6th and we're 8th now, 6th before this weekends games.

We've been seeing and saying for years what Raiols has said. By the end of the season Paul will have been here 4 fecking years and we haven't once looked like building a team to match and utilize his super passing ability. Jose tried to make him some all round midfielder but for me he's more like a Paul Scholes type player of top passing ability and vision, not a Gerrard or Keane that some want or expect. I've only seen Ibra to be on the same level as Pogba quality wise.

Much as I'd like to see Paul stay I just can't see any quick turnaround coming to be worth his while staying, the shit players we've accumulated, the casual nature of the club, it will be very hard to overcome Pep or Klopp let alone getting us to be a key figure in the top 3-4 spot. The money we've spent we should be at least a close 3-4 but it's been squandered without any real guidance from the top.

I wouldn't stand in his way if a club offered 85-90 million this summer after 4 years of waste.
 
Shame be missed our best chance of the match but looked interested and dynamic after a lengthy lay off. Disappointed Ole changed the shape I would have preferred to see him in the 10 role front and centre to see his extra quality in better areas.
 
DFreshKing said:
Shame be missed our best chance of the match but looked interested and dynamic after a lengthy lay off. Disappointed Ole changed the shape I would have preferred to see him in the 10 role front and centre to see his extra quality in better areas.
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Personally think he should have squared it to Rashford at the back post rather than shoot, was not the best choice.

And Lingard missed out best chance of the match.
 
Rozay said:
Personally think he should have squared it to Rashford at the back post rather than shoot, was not the best choice.

And Lingard missed out best chance of the match.
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Lingard's was far more difficult. further out traveling at speed. defender closing from the left stopping the angle change for a slot. Pogba's was pretty simple with a large area to aim at plus as you say he had simple square option. One of his only poor moments in his cameo but a very important one.
 
I feel sad really. It just feels like he's wasting his prime years here. He came on and was the best player on the pitch after just recoverimg from an injury. If he goes anybody player we replace him with will not be as good as him. He needs to go. The abuse he gets from fans is a lot for someone who is our best player. And like most ex Manchester united players he is going to perform better at his new club than here
 
Rolaholic said:
Like a good top red with an agenda to spin,G-Nev is back at it...:lol:

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This is why its hard to take Gary Neville seriously. His hate for Pogba is just pathetic.
 
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