Hold on, you're using WC winning countries as an example now whereas the initial point was that Giggs didn't play in a WC because he was Welsh and Wales is a "tiny country", but plenty of "tiny countries" have qualified for the tournament in recent times. Slovenia (2mio), Slovakia (5mio), Croatia (4mio) are just three examples off the top of my head with a similar population who participated in recent WCs.
Is the World Cup still the pinnacle of the game?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
:lol @antohan your greatest moment is a farce.
No, and thanks for the classic internet snarky response. I'm quite aware of what it entails love.
But they should have a preliminary qualification round. It would add credibility.
Every World Cup has huge names in it, though. This year it’s Messi Ronaldo Neymar Kroos Modric Marcelo Suarez Lewandowski Neuer Alba Ramos Pique Isco De Gea Pogba Griezmann Kane Lukaku De Bruyne Hazard and many more. And I believe in 10-20 years quite a few of them will be remembered as true legends of the game, that’s the beauty of WC
True. I think also a big factor in the star of the world cup is that it is a tournament played after the season, all the players are not in peak condition, so the players who push through that physical adversity and lead their country to glory are rightfully remembered as legends, i'd say in a CL final a player is closer to peak form than in a World Cup because between the CL final and the start of a world cup there are alot of days without a competitive game.
OK, you could class Giggs's Wales not ever qualifying for a tournament as a relative failure. His chances of going deep into a WC and winning it with Wales are very small, close to zero, same for Iceland, Northern Ireland etc. Compare your own golden generation to the current Germany side. Belgium has no depth whatsoever. Germany have massive depth, that's because they have a massive talent pool to draw from, right from the get go.
I don’t think it’s overrated. Qualifying for the World Cup is one thing, winning it is completely another, only 8 nations in history have done so. Population size gives you the basic raw material, history in international football gives you the ingrained culture and a high GDP allows the raw materials to be nurtured in an optimum way.
If football mad nations with huge populations like Nigeria and Egypt can advance their infrastructures they will be major players. If the likes of China, India and the US can grow their football cultures and the first two advance their infrastructures then forget about it.
My basic point anyway was that international football if far from some leveller as the poster I responded to indicated. I think it is far less fair than club football because many top players have scant chance of impacting the competition at the deep end, simply because of where they are born. As the article points out, only 69 of 442 magazines top 100 players in the world will be playing in the competition this year, as opposed to 95 that played in the CL.
Not sure what ice skating has to do with anything
Erm, did you sleep through the last World Cup?
It was incredibly entertaining throughout
It’s easily the biggest spectacle but it doesn’t represent the heart and soul of football, which is still at the club level imo. Simply tuning in once every four years like many people who watch the WC do, doesn’t capture the essence and grind of what makes football special imo.
Of course it is. The WC is still the ultimate.
Let me guess, the Champioms League does?
League and CL
CL is every year.
Someone should ask Sergio Ramos
This is it! The feeling that every single match represents an avenue for history to be made and create that unmatchable feeling that will always be remembered for generations.
feck Sergio Ramos
USA - Can't even qualify - Population 326m
Can't.
Even.
Qualify.
World Cup for me. Once every 4 years and the emotion behind the teams is tough to top.
Ask iniesta instead then
No one cares about the League man.
Speak for yourself. The WC is a plastic circus for a few weeks every four years. It was more relevant before club football because more widely viewable on TV.
The almost always qualify to be fair. But yeah, a big population without a football culture won’t win you the World Cup. Agreed.
ECL is the absolute pinnacle of football. The best players are brought together to try and win it as opposed to national teams only being able to pick players from their respective countries.
And that's why only a very few very rich clubs ever win the CL. The WC is never that predictable.
Tbf, the world cup is usually won out of a small selection of footballing nations too.
I don't think it would have made much difference had the early World Cups been better organised or had more teams enter. Uruguay were clearly the best team in the world in the 1920s, winning back-to-back Olympics, 3 Copa Americas and then the World Cup. For their size, they've got solid pedigree beyond 1950 as well, reaching the semis in 1970 and 2010. Take your point about the embryonic state of the game though in the first half of the 20th century.
[QUOTE="Raoul, post: 22649686, member: 15"]It’s easily the biggest spectacle but it doesn’t represent the heart and soul of football, which is still at the club level imo. Simply tuning in once every four years like many people who watch the WC do, doesn’t capture the essence and grind of what makes football special imo.[/QUOTE]
That's how i see it. Despite my apathy towards international football, there's something special about the World Cup. It's a special event and it has a certain gravitas that is hard to ignore.
However, the football simply isn't the pinnacle anymore imo. It's been overtaken by the club game.
That's how i see it. Despite my apathy towards international football, there's something special about the World Cup. It's a special event and it has a certain gravitas that is hard to ignore.
However, the football simply isn't the pinnacle anymore imo. It's been overtaken by the club game.
8 nations i think to be exact. Out of all the nations that have taken place in it.
The early Copas were only 4 teams I think. Not sure on how seriously the Olympics were taken though. But yes, it is a comprehensive set of titles all things considered
I agree on the broader point too. Uruguay are one of the great overachievers in international football.
For sheer football adrenalin, the World Cup is still the pinnacle of the game for relentless drama and national pride and probably set to go up two notches with the introduction of VAR this summer. (Can you imagine the debate and drama for a disallowed goal!)
The quality of the football played is no longer superior to Champions League football and that is the problem unless we could have the great Hungarian side of the 50s, England's Wingless Wonders from 64 to 68 , the Brilliant Brazilian of the 60s & 70s, a Cruyff led Dutch team from the 70's, The fabulous French Maestros from 98 to 06, the greatest Spanish Team of all time from the naughties and the any one of the 4 great German teams to have won the World Cup plus Maradona's Argentina and Rossi Italians all playing in the same era we will always have a huge gulf between the top 4 or 5 teams and the rest of the competition!
Yes there will be the odd shock, an African team might go through to the quarter final but they are just as likely in mass to to walk off the pitch through diabolical racist chants.
When all done and said, the winners will come from any one of the previous winners who are taking part;
Most likely - Brazil, Germany, Spain, France, Argentina
Unlikely but not impossible - Uruguay, England!
The quality of the football played is no longer superior to Champions League football and that is the problem unless we could have the great Hungarian side of the 50s, England's Wingless Wonders from 64 to 68 , the Brilliant Brazilian of the 60s & 70s, a Cruyff led Dutch team from the 70's, The fabulous French Maestros from 98 to 06, the greatest Spanish Team of all time from the naughties and the any one of the 4 great German teams to have won the World Cup plus Maradona's Argentina and Rossi Italians all playing in the same era we will always have a huge gulf between the top 4 or 5 teams and the rest of the competition!
Yes there will be the odd shock, an African team might go through to the quarter final but they are just as likely in mass to to walk off the pitch through diabolical racist chants.
When all done and said, the winners will come from any one of the previous winners who are taking part;
Most likely - Brazil, Germany, Spain, France, Argentina
Unlikely but not impossible - Uruguay, England!
I would say that the 15 kilometres a Schweinsteiger ran in the World Cup final 2014 - and other running data and that in Brazil with that weather - tell something different. But yes, fitness is a factor - and the teams that manage that best will have advantages.
In many countries the World Cup is by far the most important competition. Club football only catches the usual football fans and the fans of the club - national football attracts a lot that aren't so much interested in football all around the year.
Sort of, in general.
World Cup ~ most prestigious, hardest competition, most anticipated, the national factor, very rare (a footballer may have probably just around 2-3 chances of winning it, 4 if they start early or still that good in their 30s), most spectators and most impactful (do well in the competition and player's name will sky rocket).
Quality of football overall can be dodgy i.e. inconsistent, but national teams that played good football (plenty already) in the competition are huge pluses and greatly praised. CL have a greater assurance of quality football and entertainment imo, and Club level (league, depends) may have a stronger emotions to the game.
Controversies and dramas happens at all three levels. Not much differences in degree.
Personally, WC is overall boring for me. The matches can doze me off so easily most of the time. The few exciting entertaining attacking teams, favourite players playing, United players playing, sudden individual brilliances and the unknown players rose to stardom are what makes the competition bearable and anticipating for me. Usually I just skip watching the games of not entertaining teams playing or stop watching if the games are boring.
World Cup ~ most prestigious, hardest competition, most anticipated, the national factor, very rare (a footballer may have probably just around 2-3 chances of winning it, 4 if they start early or still that good in their 30s), most spectators and most impactful (do well in the competition and player's name will sky rocket).
Biggest stage!
Quality of football overall can be dodgy i.e. inconsistent, but national teams that played good football (plenty already) in the competition are huge pluses and greatly praised. CL have a greater assurance of quality football and entertainment imo, and Club level (league, depends) may have a stronger emotions to the game.
Controversies and dramas happens at all three levels. Not much differences in degree.
Personally, WC is overall boring for me. The matches can doze me off so easily most of the time. The few exciting entertaining attacking teams, favourite players playing, United players playing, sudden individual brilliances and the unknown players rose to stardom are what makes the competition bearable and anticipating for me. Usually I just skip watching the games of not entertaining teams playing or stop watching if the games are boring.
It's still the trophy every player wants to win.
Will this World Cup be played at Russian winter ? That should be a factor.
It’s pretty much the biggest sporting event in the world, unless something obvious has skipped my mind.
Club > Country
None of the teams that withdrew would have got too far. The logistics shambles is in line with Brazil organising it (if anything designed to aid the hosts).
200k people inside one stadium and you could hear a pin drop. None of what that says makes it any different.
So the "quality" of WC is sampled from Russia - Saudi Arabia but it's compared with a Real Madrid - Barcelona? Nice try.
We could just ask Cristiano Ronaldo or Messi if they would change one of their CL for a WC, and then ask the opposite to Ronaldo or Buffon. I wonder what would happen.
We could just ask Cristiano Ronaldo or Messi if they would change one of their CL for a WC, and then ask the opposite to Ronaldo or Buffon. I wonder what would happen.
can’t believe there are so many naysayers... it is the pinnacle of the sport, of course, because it mirrors very well the state of both national systems and talent pools at a given time
Of course it is. You dont get headlines like "the names Bond, James Rodriguez" by playing in the League Cup.
It's easier to ignore the crap games in the CL as they aren't usually televised and there will always be a better game to choose to watch.
In the world cup you can watch every single game and that means you'll occasionally sit through a Russia v Saudi.
Imagine if it was like the CL and there was lots of games on at the same time, you'd feel gutted at the amount of top class games you'd miss.
In the world cup you can watch every single game and that means you'll occasionally sit through a Russia v Saudi.
Imagine if it was like the CL and there was lots of games on at the same time, you'd feel gutted at the amount of top class games you'd miss.
World cup for me is easily the pinnacle still for me. It has far more people tune into watch it, and the fact it is a month long competition every four years means winning it is far harder and rarer.
Plus the world cup manages to capture and get watching all those non-regular football fans, that are unlikely to watch the champions league final, let alone a group stage match.
Plus the world cup manages to capture and get watching all those non-regular football fans, that are unlikely to watch the champions league final, let alone a group stage match.