Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
- Thread starter esmufc07
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Tried a Google translate on Channel 13 website. So far I see nothing on this?
Yes, you are right. there's nothing on the N13 website at the moment.
it might have been said on the 13 TV channel and not yet posted to the website- I don't know.
Anyhow, the evidence coming so far from Shifa is meek, even for those who believe that the IDF doesn't fake everything.
Edit: the main news article on the N13 website claims that 2,000 Hamas men were hiding in Shifa at a certain point.
could have said 20 or 20 thousand. no explanation as to how the number was calculated.
maybe there are calendars there with 2k days of the week...
Last edited:
I’m trying to find the same - but give it time. This has been shown though:
Oh well maybe it was another hospital. On to the next one, no one can stop it anyway, not Biden, not Sunak.
Stop? They financing it
The quoted twitter page does not look very reliable - their first headline is about Iran getting close to a nuke, and a little below they are reporting a random Republican senator saying Biden is soft on Iran. After googling, only the times of israel is carrying the same story. Reuters has a more basic report which only says this, not that last line in that quoted tweet:
I would be absolutely unsurprised if Iran indeed does not want to get involved, but, the source just doesn't look right.
Looks like it’s been a failure of intelligence, and we’ve seen the needless death of babies, and other patients.
It takes some doing but I have seen some of the evidence and they left me speechless. I actually believed that the allegations were possible if not likely but now I don't know.
Nah, these babies and patients are most likely members of Hamas so Israel must defend themselves against these monsters
First resolution adopted by the UNSC.
I just saw. Nowadays we are bought and paid for by the U.K. and the USA and by proxy Isreal.
So the UK MPs have voted against a ceasefire
So the UK MPs have voted against a ceasefire
Much less at stake for Ireland and we couldn’t do it either in a country with an overwhelmingly pro Palestinian/human rights/anti colonisation constituency. England was never going to do anything until America gave the green light. The Arab countries can’t even get their shit together at this point so what hope have we?
There was a huge build-up regarding the command center under Shifa.
are they ever going to film from within the tunnels?
IDF videos are crap, whether genuine or not.
I believe Hamas has some serious business going on under Shifa and other such places as it makes too much sense to not do it*
but the footage that the IDF thinks is proof of it is almost comical.
* I have friends who've been to Gaza a/o Jenin in the past and have seen with their own eyes that there are weapons in a basement of a Mosque (Jenin), in playgrounds, and in schools (Gaza).
This is how I know that not everything the IDF publishes is fake. If I didn't know people personally I too would have questioned everything.
So I assume that there are some things going on inside Shifa as well.
But there should be much greater evidence for the claims that one of Hamas' prominent command centers is located under Shifa.
Those videos are not that.
are they ever going to film from within the tunnels?
IDF videos are crap, whether genuine or not.
I believe Hamas has some serious business going on under Shifa and other such places as it makes too much sense to not do it*
but the footage that the IDF thinks is proof of it is almost comical.
* I have friends who've been to Gaza a/o Jenin in the past and have seen with their own eyes that there are weapons in a basement of a Mosque (Jenin), in playgrounds, and in schools (Gaza).
This is how I know that not everything the IDF publishes is fake. If I didn't know people personally I too would have questioned everything.
So I assume that there are some things going on inside Shifa as well.
But there should be much greater evidence for the claims that one of Hamas' prominent command centers is located under Shifa.
Those videos are not that.
Dunno why but I felt optimistic. But now I feel like just burying my head into the sand. Nothing will stop the bloodshed
Where is the command center?
So far no evidence. According to channel 4.
Israel dropped leaflets asking the south eastern part of Gaza to evacuate West. 
So fecking half-arsed too, planting the gun behind the hospital's functioning MRI scanner. Morons
Even if Shifa was full of weapons (not the tiny amount they found today) and Hamas men at a certain point;
wasn't it clear as daylight that the IDF would enter Shifa at some point?
How hard can it be to conceal whatever you want to conceal, seeing as you have weeks to do that?
Looks to me that some in the IDF still believe Hamas are a bunch of idiots when it comes to certain things.
I believe IDF thought that they'd get shot at en masse from within the hospital, which'll be proof enough.
Either shit intelligence work or they got outsmarted.
I'll reserve full judgment till they enter the tunnels beneath it...
wasn't it clear as daylight that the IDF would enter Shifa at some point?
How hard can it be to conceal whatever you want to conceal, seeing as you have weeks to do that?
Looks to me that some in the IDF still believe Hamas are a bunch of idiots when it comes to certain things.
I believe IDF thought that they'd get shot at en masse from within the hospital, which'll be proof enough.
Either shit intelligence work or they got outsmarted.
I'll reserve full judgment till they enter the tunnels beneath it...
Into the Mediterranean?Israel dropped leaflets asking the south eastern part of Gaza to evacuate West.
https://forensic-architecture.org/investigation/executions-and-mass-graves-in-tantura-23-may-1948
I have today been recommended to read the forensic architecture investigation of the 1948 Tantura massacre. It is a long read but a wonderful work by them to untangle the facts and present the truth about the massacre committed by Israel in 1948 to the 1500 Palestinians living in the village.
The most disgusting thing is they built a beach resort above the mass grave.
here is a video by FA.
I have today been recommended to read the forensic architecture investigation of the 1948 Tantura massacre. It is a long read but a wonderful work by them to untangle the facts and present the truth about the massacre committed by Israel in 1948 to the 1500 Palestinians living in the village.
The most disgusting thing is they built a beach resort above the mass grave.
here is a video by FA.
Thanks for sharing, will watch this.
You have to think something dodgy is going on because this is just an insane level of incompetence from the Israeli side of things. There must be some grand reveal or they're going to come out of this looking like complete idiots and the backlash in terms of the world view on them will increase tenfold
People who think hamas has caches of weapons and tunnels under medical facilities and UN buildings, please explain why hamas would even bother using them when it's public knowledge that gazan spies have given the locations to the IDF. Hamas were expecting a ground invasion and they've planned accordingly, the weapons are hidden in the rubble that Israel has conveniently created, it makes finding them harder and getting to them easier for hamas.
So much hate..Jesus wept.
I agree with the bold. From a cold calculus of war it makes perfect sense for Hamas to build their infrastructure behind key civilian institutions like hospitals, schools, etc. Neither Hamas or Israeli leadership is concerned with minimizing civilian deaths so its very logical, from their view, to put their infrastructure behind these civilian locations. Hamas gains something either way.
However, I actually don't think they'd put critical command centers or such behind this particular hospital, al-Shifa, because it's underground bunkers were originally built by Israel so the IDF would have intimate knowledge of at least the basic structure and be much more capable of clearing it. For how horrific they are, I don't think Hamas militant leadership is stupid and if they were trying to goad Israeli into going way too far, this is one way they can do that. Especially because it looks like IDF is both horrific and making some stupid mistakes ATM.
This whole thing is sickening. Bombing hospitals like this should never be okay, even if the terrorists were hiding behind it, but in this case I don't even think that is likely. I think this was a Hamas trap that revenge obsessed Israeli leadership fell right into.
The worst part for me, is I just don't see a way out of this that doesn't get much worse before it gets marginally better. After reading those profiles earlier on Sinwar and that Israeli settler woman, they are both complete and utter psychopaths that should be permanently in jail not in leadership positions for their respective factions.
It's not just the hate that upset me, it's the astounding hypocrisy and down right ignorance too. It's not unexpected or surprising in any way, but it's just so damn infuriating and upsetting to see. It's like it on almost every subject, there is such a huge disparity on either side no matter what the argument.
When you break it all down, it usually ends up with, and I hate to say this, but experience and evidence support it, that those on the right wing side are usually just repeating conspiracy theories, mistruths and outright lies.
Put that together with a severe lack of knowledge or education and it creates such a hate filled and toxic atmosphere that there is absolutely no point in trying to have a discussion in the first place.
There is never any grey areas, no nuance, little or no compassion or empathy and absolutely no room for an honest discussion because any counter or differing opinion, regardless of if backed with facts or not is instantly dismissed or twisted back around.
I think I've seen one video recently where a guy (I forget his name) was.speakikg to some MAGA loons about the war in Ukraine and he actually got a guy to concede he was wrong and change his opinion. But that's an absolute one off that I have seen. It's so rare. The hatred runs so deep, it's absolutely terrifying and so depressing.
The woman in that video who was just peacefully standing there with her ceasefire poster was being relentlessly attacked by other women who were just throwing lies and conspiracy shit at her. One was trying to equate the history of the USA and Native Americans but couldn't understand her hypocrisy and faults in her attack. The other lady was just quietly saying about the Palestinians land and previous events in history yet they were ignored or dismissed or worse still, discounted as not being true.
Yet another issue that I'm struggling with about all this is the mental gymnastics going on with the MAGA lot. Being Pro-Russian was batshit enough as it is, but now pro Israeli too? How many right wing lunatic posts have we seen condemning Israel? MTG's own comments about Jewish space lasers, Soros, the banks and Jewish money etc... Then you have the hypocrisy from the Christians who claim to love everyone but not Muslims. It's an absolute clusterfeck.
How anyone can not take the sides of the innocent people in all this is beyond me. Israel, leave the innocent Palestinians alone. Stop the ethnic cleansing and stealing of all their land. Stop bombing hospitals, refugee camps, ambulances, shooting kids playing on scooters in the streets. Stop the war crimes, stealing of water, starvation and denying enough fuel to hospitals. Stop calling for the destruction of Gaza and removal of all Palestinians or for them to remain but live in apartheid and prison like conditions. And stop aiding and letting settlers go over to the West Bank or Gaza and push Palestinian families out of their own homes.
And HAMAS, go feck yourselves. Stop attacking and kidnapping innocent Jews, attacking music concerts and parading tortured victims or mutilated dead bodies for the world to see. And stop calling for death to all Israelis.
World leaders, get some fecking balls and do the right thing here and step in before this gets any worse than it already is.USA and UK Stop bankrolling Israel and stop promoting their propaganda and defending their every move.
What does that make me? A Hamas sympathiser and anti-Semitic radical left wing wishy washy communist was the last one that got thrown at me in the pub the other night. And apparently I'm the hateful one too.
Anyone continuing both siding this in the face of overwhelming evidence of Israel's psychotic war crimes is just proving themselves to be terrible actors justifying genocide.
israel will still ignore it unless pressured to abide by it by the USA.
I find this focus on Shifa so intentionally misplaced, clearly it was supposed to be a big PR victory that they thought would justify all their actions. Even in this thread we've seen some try use it as a gotcha showing it works.
Hamas are known bad guys, evidence of such does not justify Israeli actions against civilians. Yet the propaganda drive will focus the argument back towards Israel vs Hamas, only in that comparison can Israel try paint themselves as the better actor here.
Hamas are known bad guys, evidence of such does not justify Israeli actions against civilians. Yet the propaganda drive will focus the argument back towards Israel vs Hamas, only in that comparison can Israel try paint themselves as the better actor here.
The IDF PR must be ran by someone with a humilliation fetish who wants to make us involuntary participants.