Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

I kept hearing the word ‘Kibbutz’ on the news and written in articles.

So I googled, and it says there settlements…but are these on legal land as per 1967, or illegal settlements?
 
Giggsy PO said:
This thread deserves some positivity. Rudy Rochman provides a philosophical framework how to move forward. Message of hope.
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Damn that was bad. The rifle was a nice touch.
 
Tibs said:
I kept hearing the word ‘Kibbutz’ on the news and written in articles.

So I googled, and it says there settlements…but are these on legal land as per 1967, or illegal settlements?
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There are kibbutzes on an occupied land but generally there's no correlation with illegal settlements, it's just a type of a settlement that's based on a communal sharing of work & goods*.

* at least they were originally, they've transformed quite a bit
 
Raoul said:
Agreed that they will run out soon, which is why they’re holding on to the more valuable ones, Americans and others.
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Continuing that, Israel just announces that three soldiers who have been held by Hamas are now considered dead based on evidence.
 
Giggsy PO said:
Agreed. That's why it is just a philosophical concept. As Yuval Noah Harari says: "This is the curse of history: people try to save the past instead of saving the future. We cannot go back to the past and correct the wrongs that were done in previous years or decades. We need to look to the future and find some way for future peace."
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I like the fact the gentleman in the video emphasized “heal”. I liked that.

Isaac healed a rift by not blaming or imposed a compass of morality. Yet the narrative presented Ishmael as “everything the Palestinians are labelled today”.

If one can’t understand how there is already a preconceived bigotry guised in these gestures to a persons asking for parity. For time now I’ve insisted people trying to be brokers in this whole mess should start examining their own prejudices for clarity.

The forgiving and loving Isaac and the hateful Ishmael. People do listen and understand language, especially when they’ve lived it. But hey, they can always be reeducated(colonised) to know peace, love and forgiveness.

I understand you have skin in this conflict and your interest for peace precedes any biases but what you might find a genuine medium, might be shrouded in some very weird undertones to others.

You can’t philosophically look towards building a bright future with a foundation like that.
 
harms said:
There are kibbutzes on an occupied land but generally there's no correlation with illegal settlements, it's just a type of a settlement that's based on a communal sharing of work & goods*.

* at least they were originally, they've transformed quite a bit
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Thanks
 
Amir said:
Continuing that, Israel just announces that three soldiers who have been held by Hamas are now considered dead based on evidence.
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Not surprising. I would imagine a number of others are also dead, which would be another reason they are not showing up on Hamas hostage swap lists (despite their families thinking they're still alive). Hamas or PIJ are also apparently holding a 10 month old baby hostage and the fact that he hasn't yet been returned is pretty ominous as to whether he is alive or not.
 
Tibs said:
I kept hearing the word ‘Kibbutz’ on the news and written in articles.

So I googled, and it says there settlements…but are these on legal land as per 1967, or illegal settlements?
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The Kibbutzim have their origins in early twentieth century experimental socialist farming communities created by ideological Zionist settlers from the Russian Empire. They have long lost their socialist character but retained a certain status and community outlook in modern Israel. The majority were established before 1967, including some of those founded in the West Bank before 1948 (and subsequently re-established after 1967). But newer such communities have been established in the occupied West Bank and Golan Heights since 1967 (and also existed in the occupied Sinai Peninsula and Gaza Strip before Israel’s withdrawal from those territories).

The Kibbutzim located near Gaza that were targeted on 7th October are all firmly within the boundaries of pre-1967 Israel.
 
KikiDaKats said:
I like the fact the gentleman in the video emphasized “heal”. I liked that.

Isaac healed a rift by not blaming or imposed a compass of morality. Yet the narrative presented Ishmael as “everything the Palestinians are labelled today”.

If one can’t understand how there is already a preconceived bigotry guised in these gestures to a persons asking for parity. For time now I’ve insisted people trying to be brokers in this whole mess should start examining their own prejudices for clarity.

The forgiving and loving Isaac and the hateful Ishmael. People do listen and understand language, especially when they’ve lived it. But hey, they can always be reeducated(colonised) to know peace, love and forgiveness.

I understand you have skin in this conflict and your interest for peace precedes any biases but what you might find a genuine medium, might be shrouded in some very weird undertones to others.

You can’t philosophically look towards building a bright future with a foundation like that.
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I would genuinely like to thank you for a very articulate answer. I wish all debates here would be done in a such manner. Again, just to be clear, this is no sarcasm. To the content I will come back later on.
 
Raoul said:
Hamas or PIJ are also apparently holding a 10 month old baby hostage and the fact that he hasn't yet been returned is pretty ominous as to whether he is alive or not.
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It is worrying, but I'm not certain. He was taken alive and well with his mother and another young brother, unlike others who were attacked and injured. Maybe Hamas actually are struggling to get to them. Or are playing whatever sick game they want to.
 


We repeat the same information about the 300 Palestinians that have been released from Israeli prison. 233 of them have never been convicted of anything and sitting in prison some of them for 2 years. 2 years no trial.

And if they get to go to trial, it is a military court.

The only country in the world, the only one that trial civilians mostly minors in military courts. This is not a state, its a criminal gang.
 
Raoul said:
Some interesting back and forth here on the legal status of Palestinians being released in the hostage deal.

Maybe @Amir can corroborate the Hebrew article cited below.



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I need to correct myself here, as I did not have the right information and only now had a chance to look at the actual list of prisoners released. Some of them have gone on trial, but many were in the status of "Arrested". Having said that, many of them were arrested this year and some last year, so I assume they haven't stood trial YET (or the trial was not completed).

Giggsyking said:


We repeat the same information about the 300 Palestinians that have been released from Israeli prison. 233 of them have never been convicted of anything and sitting in prison some of them for 2 years. 2 years no trial.

And if they get to go to trial, it is a military court.

The only country in the world, the only one that trial civilians mostly minors in military courts. This is not a state, its a criminal gang.
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I hate to say it, but the legal system in Israel is not great when it comes to quick proceedings. In fact, it's terrible. For everyone.
 
While Biden very publicly pushes for the two state solution yesterday, Netanyahu continually undermines his country's primary supporter by seeking eternal conflict.

 
Sir Matt said:
While Biden very publicly pushes for the two state solution yesterday, Netanyahu continually undermines his country's primary supporter by seeking eternal conflict.

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The same Biden that gives 14bn and shinny new toys?

This is just lip service. It's the big bully who held the bullied victim so that his bully friend can beat them up while shouting to everyone stop fighting
 
Some humanity from CNN… This could be the sign that the US is changing course slowly.

 
The Corinthian said:
He’s such a monumental bellend. What an awful statement. Why’s he so scared of Israel / Bibi? Really boggles the mind.
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Fear is not the primary or even the secondary motivation for his statements and actions.

He loves Zionism and has complete disregard for arab and Muslim lives. This is his ideology and always has been.
 
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