Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

Wibble said:
Only because they don't want conflict with Iran as well. If it were true why have they blocked Qatar releasing 6bn in oil revenue?
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11101 said:
Is there not? Virtually all analysts and intelligence agencies are saying Iran was involved and ive said earlier in the thread it mirrors what they did in Iraq in the 2000s. Influence and disrupt.
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Obviously respect your opinions here whilst standing by mine, yours is probably the majority view.

NicolaSacco said:
I think he stretches the logic a fair bit towards the end too, but he clearly knows his subject matter and presents it well.
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where do you think he’s stretching? I think most of his points are logical and well evidenced. Perhaps the bit about Israel not letting Gazans return, but I think the ethnic cleansing attittudes are clear in this government,
 
The United said:
I think what he was saying that it will be bad for civilians there with no food or water or power while the Israeli seige the city for months. And people here has been saying that Hamas stored those in the tunnels to be able to resist them for a long time. So what he said makes sense in that sense unless I misunderstood your point or his here.
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That's the only way what he was saying would add up.
 
What do you guys think wil happen if Trump becomes president after his latest comments about Israel?
 
Drizzle said:
Thanks for your valuable input. You didn't respond to my point, so I'll assume it's because you can't. Let's move on shall we.
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What point? It's just tone policing. Saying that the leader of Israel is the one embodying the Nazi ideals, in response to that very same leader saying they're fighting Nazis, is a completely anodyne statement. Meanwhile, there is nothing any user on here can say about Palestinians that will see you speak up.

As you said, "I see you".
 
sullydnl said:
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According to some intelligent posters here, its their fault, those children should have rebelled against Hamas, those 700 child were massacred with the blessing of the western leaders. I can not express how disgusted I am with these leaders.
 
Drizzle said:
He's barely in the top 10 evil murdering cnuts I the world, but you specifically choose him to be called hitler. I see you.
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He is bloody Hitler. He is evil and is committing war crimes as we speak. He will be punished. In this life or the next. I see you too.
 
Superden said:
I was talking about the settlers. The ones in illegal settlements that have been terrorising the local indigenous population. You can deflect as always.
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No I agree with you on this one. They're absolutely terrorists. If you're shooting up families, then they deserve the same treatment as Hamas. Especially as they could easily identify who is doing it.
 
Giggsyking said:
According to some intelligent posters here, its their fault, those children should have rebelled against Hamas, those 700 child were massacred with the blessing of the western leaders. I can not express how disgusted I am with these leaders.
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Not all western leaders it has to be said bit I doubt the rest of the EU are going to listen
 
Eendracht maakt macht said:
What do you guys think wil happen if Trump becomes president after his latest comments about Israel?
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The positive Hezbollah words & the bashing of Bibi for not taking part in the assassination, etc.?

His comms team & he are feverishly spamming out pro-Israel truths, etc. at the moment. They are trying to bury any social media with his speech on it. It's rather sad to see.
 
Real Madras said:
He is bloody Hitler. He is evil and is committing war crimes as we speak. He will be punished. In this life or the next. I see you too.
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I assume crimes and rules in general only applies to statesmen? Because hitler didn't have to deal with terrorists
 
Raoul said:
He’ll invite Hamas to Camp David and make a deal.
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He wanted the taliban there, so probably.

calodo2003 said:
The positive Hezbollah words & the bashing of Bibi for not taking part in the assassination, etc.?

His comms team & he are feverishly spamming out pro-Israel truths, etc. at the moment. They are trying to bury any social media with his speech on it. It's rather sad to see.
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It’s quite funny. Not often trump actually realises he fecked up. Usually he doubles down. I still expect him to double down and make things worse when heckled.

Hezbollah are very smart my friend. They attack from the north because Biden told them Israel are weak in the north. Even though they are based in the south and west. Biden helped them.
 
Boycott said:
Yeah I've noticed a strange overlap like that too. I mentioned yesterday that the Lowkey account that gets shared on here has been at best turning a blind eye to Russia's invasion and war crimes in Ukraine and at worst justifying it by smearing Ukrainians. There's a journalist who has been verifying video footage going viral and he has had a field day of having to clarify that footage claiming to be of Israel bombing buildings to rubble in Gaza but actually it is footage of Russia bombing buildings to rubble Ukraine and a lot of those accounts probably didn't know the difference because they have been cheerleading the Russians all along.
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I will couch this by saying that I don't know what lowkey specifically posted. If he posted actively pro Russian stuff, he's an idiot.

I'm incredibly sympathetic to the Ukrainian cause. However a lot of PoC in the west were very aware of the hypocrisy regarding Ukraine with comparison to conflicts elsewhere, including Palestine. It wasn't like the Ukrainians didn't get enough help and support. The west mobilised, gave weapons, aid, accused Russia of war crimes, bullied countries in the global south who didn't vote how they wanted in the UN. Meanwhile the Palestinians get the Western leaders lining up to defend Israeli war crimes.

I've always had incredible disdain for other people on the left who supported Assad/Putin/Saddam etc, as part of some anti - imperialism crap, as opposed to being actively supportive of human rights for all worldwide.
 
hobbers said:
They dont have weaponary that can destroy tunnels while bypassing the buildings on top of them.....
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Are you sure?

Didn't they go on about the new barrier along the border that detects tunnel building and they could use their "bunker busters"?
 
africanspur said:
I will couch this by saying that I don't know what lowkey specifically posted. If he posted actively pro Russian stuff, he's an idiot.

I'm incredibly sympathetic to the Ukrainian cause. However a lot of PoC in the west were very aware of the hypocrisy regarding Ukraine with comparison to conflicts elsewhere, including Palestine. It wasn't like the Ukrainians didn't get enough help and support. The west mobilised, gave weapons, aid, accused Russia of war crimes, bullied countries in the global south who didn't vote how they wanted in the UN. Meanwhile the Palestinians get the Western leaders lining up to defend Israeli war crimes.

I've always had incredible disdain for other people on the left who supported Assad/Putin/Saddam etc, as part of some anti - imperialism crap, as opposed to being actively supportive of human rights for all worldwide.
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Probably because they aren't analogous, as well as the idea of european exceptionalism, and dare I say it, white racism. There are about 10 conflicts I'd fund before the Palestinians.

That said, I'll present the following counterfactual to you: Had the Ukraine government opened the war with the murder of 1300 Russians and 100-200 more hostages, in retaliation for oppression in Crimea and Donbas, how do you think the world would have reacted to the Russian invasion? My strong belief is, Ukraine as we know it would no longer exist. The rest would have said 'fair enough, actions have consequences'
 
Roane said:
Are you sure?

Didn't they go on about the new barrier along the border that detects tunnel building and they could use their "bunker busters"?
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You think bunker busters leave the buildings above ground untouched?
 
owlo said:
Probably because they aren't analogous, as well as the idea of european exceptionalism, and dare I say it, white racism. There are about 10 conflicts I'd fund before the Palestinians.

That said, I'll present the following counterfactual to you: Had the Ukraine government opened the war with the murder of 1300 Russians and 100-200 more hostages, in retaliation for oppression in Crimea and Donbas, how do you think the world would have reacted to the Russian invasion? My strong belief is, Ukraine as we know it would no longer exist. The rest would have said 'fair enough, actions have consequences'
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I'm not talking about the two situations as being entirely analogous. I am saying why many people of colour were not as enthusiastic in their support for Ukraine. Frankly, Ukraine are not lacking in support. Putin is called a war criminal at every turn (rightly so).

Meanwhile as I say,Western leaders are openly defending war crimes before they've even been fully committed and many, even serious politicians, are openly talking about ethnic cleansing and how to deal with the outcome of it.

Hamas are scum.
 
Pintu said:
Some NATO countries that both Israel and Egypt (and by extension the PLO) can trust… prior to this week I’d have thought of France, the UK (+ maybe Germany, Norway and others in the EU) as such countries…

but I have huge doubts that the Palestinians would welcome Europeans if Israel continue with this brutality and the said NATO countries fail to distance themselves from it…
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What's the incentive for any of those countries to take on that hot potato? No matter how fairly you handle it, sooner rather than later it creates a massive bullseye on your own population for domestic acts of terrorism.
 
fergieisold said:
What should Israel be doing to avoid the needless loss of civilian life? Given the situation it seems clear they must move into Gaza and do something about Hamas. Preferably removing them.

How would you go about it?
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Having a mandate to invade is not an excuse to turn off water and electricity for so many people indefinitely.
 
fergieisold said:
What should Israel be doing to avoid the needless loss of civilian life? Given the situation it seems clear they must move into Gaza and do something about Hamas. Preferably removing them.

How would you go about it?
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Reinforce the border and do a hostage/prisoner exchange with Hamas. Personally, I wouldn't go into Gaza and shut down all its utilities and cause civilian casualties through collateral damage.

I think Israel at the moment is creating new problems for itself.
 
africanspur said:
I'm not talking about the two situations as being entirely analogous. I am saying why many people of colour were not as enthusiastic in their support for Ukraine. Frankly, Ukraine are not lacking in support. Putin is called a war criminal at every turn (rightly so).

Meanwhile as I say,Western leaders are openly defending war crimes before they've even been fully committed and many, even serious politicians, are openly talking about ethnic cleansing and how to deal with the outcome of it.

Hamas are scum.
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But why would people of colour support one oppressed group less because other oppressed groups don't get the support they feel they deserve?

I don't disagree with you; there needs to be more calls for restraint, and I think/hope we will see those in the coming days. I also think it's disturbing how most military analysts see ethnic cleansing as inevitable.

I'd ask you to answer my question though, how do you see the Ukraine war having gone (and western support for it and the civilians), had ukraine opened with a Hamas style terror attack? Do you think they'd have lifted a finger as Russia obliterated them?
 
hobbers said:
You think bunker busters leave the buildings above ground untouched?
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No but it can eradicate indiscriminate bombing of civilians.

Iirc a while back 3 prizes were given to Israeli military inventions or what not. 2 of the prizes had to be annonymous so not to give away detail but one was given for the fact that this technology would take tunnels out of the equation.

Egypt is known to have blocked/destroyed tunnels. Israel has this super duper tech that can detect the building of tunnels (to including sensors on the barrier built in 2014.

But nah let's bomb civilians.
 
do.ob said:
Having a mandate to invade is not an excuse to turn off water and electricity for so many people indefinitely.
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I agree
VorZakone said:
Reinforce the border and do a hostage/prisoner exchange with Hamas. Personally, I wouldn't go into Gaza and shut down all its utilities and cause civilian casualties through collateral damage.

I think Israel at the moment is creating new problems for itself.
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But that doesn’t seem to be an ideal outcome. Basically Hamas get away with murdering >1000 people and end up with their prisoners back.
 
fergieisold said:
What should Israel be doing to avoid the needless loss of civilian life? Given the situation it seems clear they must move into Gaza and do something about Hamas. Preferably removing them.

How would you go about it?
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The biggest lie ever told is that Israel will destroy Hamas.

Consistently by Jewish, non Jewish, ex Israeli military and even current ones have said the same thing. Teach Hamas a lesson but don't get rid.

One military general or something said something along the lines of break a few bones but don't send to the hospital.

Why? Because they are scared of Hamas getting gone completely

Edit: and Israel doesn't want a ground offensive. Not least because the population doesn't have the stomach for it. But also because despite the rhetoric Israeli ground troops are not that good. Israel has magnificent air power , it also has some top units but generally the ground troops are not well trained.
 
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