Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

[Carolina Red]

Do you think Arabs were in those lands from the beginning of time? Who were the colonists then? The Muslims weren't the only ones to invade and conquer the land. Remember the Egyptians (Jewish slaves built the pyramids) and Romans?

Good lord...

1) The Canaanites were there before the Hebrews.

2) The story about the Pyramids is a myth.

 

[moses]

How so?

The "polarity" in America politics. It's all in the veneer. There's actually very little material difference, they're both to the right economically and foreign policy wise. Both parties are almost identical but characterised by the extreme minority in each.

 

[Amir]

An absolutey moronic question, but hardly a sackable offence.

 

[calodo2003]

The "polarity" in America politics. It's all in the veneer. There's actually very little material difference, they're both to the right economically and foreign policy wise.

Kinda, just not as stark as you purport though.

Fox praising Biden's speech is noteworthy, that barrier never is breached.

 

[Frank Grimes]

The "polarity" in America politics. It's all in the veneer. There's actually very little material difference, they're both to the right economically and foreign policy wise.

Same could be said for UK now. The second there was the threat of an old school Labour leader gaining power the UK media went after him.

 

[owlo]

Good lord...

1) The Canaanites were there before the Hebrews.

2) The story about the Pyramids is a myth.

a) Canaanites/Israelites is pretty much a synonym. b) yep; its analogous to dinosaurs fighting world war 1. (They didn't exist at the same time)

Cool fact: More time passed between the building of the first and last pyramid being build, than the last pyramid and today.

 

[hasanejaz88]

Here you go
https://nypost.com/2023/10/10/repre...hant-gas-the-jews-outside-sydney-opera-house/

I stand corrected then, horrific chants.

 

[Carolina Red]

a) Canaanites/Israelites is pretty much a synonym. b) yep; its analogous to dinosaurs fighting world war 1. (They didn't exist at the same time)

Cool fact: More time passed between the building of the first and last pyramid being build, than the last pyramid and today.

It isn't a synonym to the folks using ancient religious arguments to support claims to that land, seeing as according to those ancient religious texts, one group committed genocide on the other.

I only point that out to make the point that it's silly to use ancient history in this situation.

 

[Simbo]

Is there any credible reporting on the actual death toll here? If the estimate of 500 is accurate I still fail to see how a PIJ rocket could cause that carnage, but that’s just going off the history of rocket miss-hits in Gaza.

Nah only source of the 500 figure is Hamas, so has zero credibility to it. Just looking at the drone footage from a few hours before this event, this parking lot isn't a gathering spot, used as a shelter or anything like that. There's cars 10m away from the point of impact with clear line of sight that were relatively undamaged, to give some indication of the force of the blast and resulting fire. Perhaps there were a few people there, perhaps people in the cars that took the brunt of the damage. There is footage of the buildings adjacent with structural damage and blown out windows that could cause casualties. Honestly though, based of what we've seen I'm not sure if an estimate of 0-50 deaths would be too unreasonable. Lots more injuries of course.

Obviously some here will claim the Israeli footage is doctored and they photoshopped out the camp of 1,000 people crammed into this car park.

 

[moses]

Same could be said for UK now. The second there was the threat of an old school Labour leader gaining power the UK media went after him.

Ireland too until the emergence of the Shinners.

 

[hasanejaz88]

An absolutey moronic question, but hardly a sackable offence.

Ofcourse it's sackable. It's a clearly bigotted question saying that her family might have known about a terrorist attack just because they live in Gaza. Would he ask an Israeli if they knew about an attack on Gaza just because they live in Israel? Hell no.

 

[owlo]

Kinda, just not as stark as you purport though.

Fox praising Biden's speech is noteworthy, that barrier never is breached.

From the outside in, we don't often see the differences, because to many European countries, the fights the left are fighting were 'settled' long ago. There's obviously huge ideological differences even between centrists like Biden and those like Manchin. But us Europeans often take simplistic views of left and right.

And the fact they align on foreign policy in Israel doesn't mean those differences don't exist in foreign policy. Wonder if that's (the bold) to feck with trump.

 

[Frank Grimes]

Ireland too until the emergence of the Shinners.

Indeed but Ireland don't affect the wider world.

 

[owlo]

It isn't a synonym to the folks using ancient religious arguments to support claims to that land, seeing as according to those ancient religious texts, one group committed genocide on the other.

I only point that out to make the point that it's silly to use ancient history in this situation.

Aye, completely agree. Palestinians and Jews have almost the same amount of 'ancient israelite/canaanite' dna anyway! It's a pretty pointless rabbit hole.

 

[Carolina Red]

Aye, completely agree. Palestinians and Jews have almost the same amount of 'ancient israelite/canaanite' dna anyway! It's a pretty pointless rabbit hole.

Agreed!

 

[moses]

Kinda, just not as stark as you purport though.

Fox praising Biden's speech is noteworthy, that barrier never is breached.

I suppose you are right, all the major wars recently have been initiated by Republican presidents. So I'd say it's quite circumstancial. I'd say a lot of the adversarial content is just parlor games but in matters like this they'd align. Maybe.

Joe has always been very much in pro Israel.

How are Fox explaining their pro Israel stance when they have been fully behind Trumps isolationism?

 

[We need an rvn]

The terror in this child's eyes is damn heartbreaking. Damn Hamas and Israel, no child should ever have to go through this, this is pure evil.

That was truly upsetting to see, a lump in the throat moment.

The same has to be said what has happened to the children in Ukraine for the past 20 odd months now, but not only children - adults of all fronts be it soldiers / parents volunteers etc - they will never be able to unforesee what they have seen and it’s just so shocking people can do this to each other

 

[Carolina Red]

The terror in this child's eyes is damn heartbreaking. Damn Hamas and Israel, no child should ever have to go through this, this is pure evil.

Assuming that kid survives, the effect of that trauma on their further socio-emotional development will likely be devastating, to say the least.

 

[moses]

From the outside in, we don't often see the differences, because to many European countries, the fights the left are fighting were 'settled' long ago. There's obviously huge ideological differences even between centrists like Biden and those like Manchin. But us Europeans often take simplistic views of left and right.

And the fact they align on foreign policy in Israel doesn't mean those differences don't exist in foreign policy. Wonder if that's (the bold) to feck with trump.

Really? With the rise of the far right in Europe and the rising cost of living and housing issues across the continent I think you are way off. But let's just disagree and not take the thread off topic.

 

[KingCantona87]

The only nightmare is getting ridiculous responses from people who don't have the slightest clue what they are going on about. Ring any bells?

Unfortunately, this has always been the case in this specific thread in the Caf over the years. If you dare to disagree with the consensus (a majority of the posters in the thread have always been firmly anti-Israel), present reasons as to why, you are immediately shut down with personal attacks and there are very few reasonable or good debates to be had.

 

[moses]

Assuming that kid survives, the effect of that trauma on their further socio-emotional development will likely be devastating, to say the least.

There are children not born yet that will suffer a kind of trauma, even if it all stops now.

 

[owlo]

I suppose you are right, all the major wars recently have been initiated by Republican presidents. So I'd say it's quite circumstancial. I'd say a lot of the adversarial content is just parlor games but in matters like this they'd align. Maybe.

Joe has always been very much in pro Israel.

How are Fox explaining their pro Israel stance when they have been fully behind Trumps isolationism?

The Iraq/Afghan wars were a function of the population, not the presidency. Especially the Afghan one. Obama went to war with ISIS.

I think you're overstating the amount of agency that leaders have in 'wars of revenge' - Afghanistan and this Israel response were pretty much set in stone from the moment of the terror actions.

 

[FireballXL5]

You can only conclude that the US is quite happy to see the genocide carried out to completion.

 

[moses]

The Iraq/Afghan wars were a function of the population, not the presidency. Especially the Afghan one. Obama went to war with ISIS.

I think you're overstating the amount of agency that leaders have in 'wars of revenge' - Afghanistan and this Israel response were pretty much set in stone from the moment of the terror actions.

Not at all, that's not what I'm talking about at all. I'm talking about the superficiality and whimsy of the media.

You've imagined a conversation and my position and then told me I was wrong. That's impressive internetting.

I said there no real difference in foreign policy just in the media's games.

 

[The Corinthian]

Assuming that kid survives, the effect of that trauma on their further socio-emotional development will likely be devastating, to say the least.

Have a read of these:


Children in Gaza experience ‘trauma beyond their endurance’
Parents say they are at a loss in dealing with the trauma of their children who should be playing, not grieving.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/5/12/children-in-gaza-experience-trauma-beyond-their-endurance



91 percent of children in Gaza suffer from PTSD
The mental health crisis amongst Gazan children deteriorated during the month of May when Israel bombed the city.

https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/91-percent-of-children-in-gaza-suffer-from-ptsd-48105

AFTER 15 YEARS OF BLOCKADE, FOUR OUT OF FIVE CHILDREN IN GAZA SAY THEY ARE LIVING WITH DEPRESSION, GRIEF AND FEAR

https://www.savethechildren.org.uk/...ifteen-years-of-blockade-for-children-in-gaza

 

[calodo2003]

I suppose you are right, all the major wars recently have been initiated by Republican presidents. So I'd say it's quite circumstancial. I'd say a lot of the adversarial content is just parlor games but in matters like this they'd align. Maybe.

Joe has always been very much in pro Israel.

How are Fox explaining their pro Israel stance when they have been fully behind Trumps isolationism?

I honestly couldn't tell you, my ingestion of Fox News literally comes from tweets alone.

 

[moses]

I honestly couldn't tell you, my ingestion of Fox News literally comes from tweets alone.

Fair, I suppose even that is too much at times.

 

[Ødegaard]

That's disgusting.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Regarding that game doesn't China generally abstain?

China plays its own game.

 

[RedDevil@84]

You can only conclude that the US is quite happy to see the genocide carried out to completion.

They obviously have an excuse ready. This time it was "Let diplomacy play it out first"

 

[calodo2003]

Fair, I suppose even that is too much at times.

That was a great question you asked though. It has me thinking I could stand an hour or two in the mire to answer it.

 

[dinostar77]

Its beyond evil, no child should have to go through this or experience this much pain at such a young age. What has happened to humanity? How did we lose our way so badly?

What fecking evil, evil scum to put children through this.

This made me cry.

 

[LARulz]

I see now Ian Hislop and Private Eye are enemies because they didn't say "We support Israel unequivocally"

 

[gaffs]

You can't even play Angry Bird's without seeing Israeli propaganda.

 

[calodo2003]

Its beyond evil, no child should have to go through this or experience this much pain at such a young age. What has happened to humanity? How did we lose our way so badly?

Interesting that you amended my original post for the reply.

 

[moses]

Unfortunately, this has always been the case in this specific thread in the Caf over the years. If you dare to disagree with the consensus (a majority of the posters in the thread have always been firmly anti-Israel), present reasons as to why, you are immediately shut down with personal attacks and there are very few reasonable or good debates to be had.

Ah hang on, Buster said that Palestinians lived in peace, which is understandably offensive to the people who hold the view they an opprssed people who live in what is an apartheid state at the very best. Which is a lot of people, to varying degrees. You are going to get a degree of pushback in most rooms you say that in. When you make declarations like that on any contentious issue there will be push back.

 

[moses]

That was a great question you asked though. It has me thinking I could stand an hour or two in the mire to answer it.

I'm fascinated by that sort of pivot, but they always get away with it, everytime, everywhere.

 

[Ekkie Thump]

I see now Ian Hislop and Private Eye are enemies because they didn't say "We support Israel unequivocally"

What's been said?

 

[Buster15]

Unfortunately, this has always been the case in this specific thread in the Caf over the years. If you dare to disagree with the consensus (a majority of the posters in the thread have always been firmly anti-Israel), present reasons as to why, you are immediately shut down with personal attacks and there are very few reasonable or good debates to be had.

Personal attacks don't really bother me, much to the annoyance of some. Fortunately I am pretty thick skinned.
It would be so easy to follow like sheep. But I am not afraid of saying what I believe in.

 

[dinostar77]

Interesting that you amended my original post for the reply.

Because i care about the children caught up in this horrendous conflict. Why should children have to go through this? They arent adults, they are innocent children.