Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Netanyahu playing politics among all this is quite something.
It's one thing for Western states to prioritize "Israel's right to defend itself", while the war is still ongoing. But I think, or at least I hope, that after the war Israel's allies will look back at all the blood that has been spilled and push for a solution that at least promises the chance of peace and handing Gaza to more moderate institutions, and giving them some security guarantees/Israeli concessions, so that they can sell it to their people, sounds logical.
This is what should've happened in the first place, an outside entity needs to govern and maintain the west bank and gaza.
It does make me wonder what conversations are going on between Arab leaders behind the scenes, and if it might have been possible to forestall Israel’s current path in some way in the immediate aftermath of 7th October.
The West has to understand that Israel can hurt the West's interests while being an ally. The West wants a rules-based international order based on international agreements. But there is no point in lecturing others on all that if their own ally is blatantly violating it.
This is the crux of basically everything.
I think the regional players are all behaving according to their own interests. The Qataris and Saudis are in a rivalry to see who can emerge as the more relevant interlocutor for regional affairs. The Qataris have the advantage of the Hamas connection in Doha, while the Saudis have to balance the Israel peace deal with the need to appear as if they're working on behalf of the Palestinians. Sisi, King Abdullah, and Erdogan basically want nothing to do with this beyond being able to criticize it from afar to soothe the anxieties of their domestic audiences.
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This is very true. I wrote in the Ukraine war thread that Israel waging its war the way they are is playing perfectly into Putin's hands.
I don't think there was any way around Israel invading Gaza after the attack. There's just no way countries would tell their ally to just suck it up and tolerate a terrorist organization in charge of 2 million people. It was always about managing civilian casualties - and as we all know that doesn't seem to go to well.
See my answer above, that's precisely the dilemma for Western countries. To put it into very simple terms: the rules say that Israel has the right to invade Gaza and that their Western allies have to support them in fighting Hamas. On the other hand Israel are breaking the rules when it comes to civilian suffering. The Western states can't abandon an ally right after it has been attacked (or Israel in general, if we're being honest), but I think/hope that afterwards they will want to make sure that they won't be put into such a situation again.
I think you'd want to a bit of depth to that analysis of yours.
Puddle would be the word to describe it.
No worries, if they kick out all gazans to the sinai, it wont happen again
Maybe they should tell them to suck it up and not occupy 3 million people in the West Bank, take their land and murder them, along with not putting up a blockade on another 2 million people. Maybe they should also look in the mirror to see where 'terrorist organization' problem really is.
This isn't the historic sticking point when it comes to rule breaking though, the rule breaking that everyone is pissed off about is an occupying power placing settlers on occupied land. Israel killing civilians is something that's been happening for decades, they unfortunately have carte Blanche.
All they want is peace.
Here's a map of the buildings either damaged or destroyed in Gaza.
In yellow from 7-17th October
In red from 18-29th October
In green the evacuation line
Source
In yellow from 7-17th October
In red from 18-29th October
In green the evacuation line
Source
I don't think hypocrisy has ever been a problem for the West, for like ever. The West pretty much defines the world order. So they can talk about peace, human rights etc etc., while actively supporting countries that turn cities to dust.
Look at the Saudis. The West condemn Saudis, talk about human rights, ask for lgbt rights, women rights etc etc. But they encourage all kinds of trade, helping the country increase their riches, supply them arms and make money off it.
First comes the military response, only then comes reflection. I don't think that's always the smartest order, but that's how states operate, isn't it?
I can't say what the calculation was in the past, but I think the current crisis is making Western nations pay for that discrepancy, so hopefully it will be addressed in the future, even if it may only be out of self interest.
I have been one of Israel's biggest critics and I believe the state itself is a misnomer- meaning it is not a real country but a colonial outpost but the actions of Hamas was abhorrent and I reject and strongly condemn their actions. Taking innocent civilians and murdering more than a thousand is just as condemnable as what Israel has meted on innocent Palestinians.
Regardless of how we feel about Israel's original sin, apartheid policies and ethnic cleansing, we should never forget that the victims of Hamas attacks are just as humans as those of Gazans.
I need to remind myself of these facts even as we continue to condemn Israel's actions.
Regardless of how we feel about Israel's original sin, apartheid policies and ethnic cleansing, we should never forget that the victims of Hamas attacks are just as humans as those of Gazans.
I need to remind myself of these facts even as we continue to condemn Israel's actions.
That's what Hamas say as well after their families being humiliated and murdered for decades. But I suppose only one is the terrorist.
Never got over this stuff tbh. Your mind has to be broken to act in this way.
Again, I cannot get my mind around how you can think this is acceptable
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These feckers are flat out terrorists. No other way to describe them.
The sad thing is this has been going on for a very long time, any other country and they would be sanctioned into submission.
Sociopathic behavior.
I would be running like this if I would have a free house. Specially if encouraged by my lovely government and it doesn't cost a dime to the tax payers
And you still get the benefits of dual citizenship.
Hillary Clinton: 'People who call for ceasefire do not understand Hamas'
https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-770790?utm_source=jpost.app.apple&utm_medium=share
Evil.
Out of interest where would they procure these armaments and get them into Gaza?
About what you'd expect from a hawk like her, but still, it's nice that she keeps reminding everyone how much she fecking sucks.
Iran?
I think the actions, the reports and the videos I have personally seen would suggest genocide is what's taking place.
Bill Clinton: “I did not have sexual relations with that woman.”
The obvious candidate no doubt. But I wonder how are they getting them into Gaza if it's under such a heavy blockade.
Every single video I've seen of these settlers they've come across the creepiest most mentally deranged human beings one can imagine.
Apparently
Hebrew Channel 13 reporting Russia and Hamas have reached a deal where Hamas will release some Russian dual nationality people (8 I believe) the n exchange for anti aircraft missiles. Israel concerned and on phone to Russia
Hebrew Channel 13 reporting Russia and Hamas have reached a deal where Hamas will release some Russian dual nationality people (8 I believe) the n exchange for anti aircraft missiles. Israel concerned and on phone to Russia