Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

Halftrack said:
Is it okay to compare them to Nazi-Germany now, or?
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There is levels of evil. Nazi Germany was on a mission to eliminate every European jew and by the end of the war they had killed 2/3 of the Jewish population, not to mention all the other non-jewish victims.

Think some perspective is needed. Even if they wanted to do that with Gaza it wouldn't be possible in todays world. Certainly they have indiscriminately bombed Gaza and punished the population.
 
roseguy64 said:
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He is not wrong even if I wish Hamas could disappear the fundamental ideas won't. But beyond that Israel actions in Gaza and West Bank are a promotion for Hamas and its equivalent.
 


More details here:
The Government Media Office in Gaza has accused Israel of stealing organs from 80 Palestinian bodies returned earlier in the day at the Karam Abu Salem (Kerem Shalom) border crossing.

“The media office denounces in the strongest terms the Israeli occupation army’s disdain for the dignity of the bodies of our 80 martyrs that Israel had stolen during its genocidal war because it delivered them mutilated,” a statement said.

“After examining the bodies, it is clear that the features of those killed had changed greatly in a clear indication that the Israeli occupation had stolen vital organs from them,” the statement went on to say.

The media office said this is not the first time Israel has “mutilated” Palestinian bodies, and it called for an independent international investigation into the taking of Palestinian bodies and theft of their organs.

“Israel has previously exhumed graves in Jabalia and stole some of the bodies in addition to the fact that it still has dozens of bodies from the Gaza Strip in its possession,” the office said.
 
Kaos said:
It doesn't help to.
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Really? Whenever I've gone to memorials and museums whether Germany or UK the key tennet on education has been to learn to ensure it never happens again. I don't think that applies only to the jewish.

There's an odd position from some that the parallel can only made on final outcome I.e. wait until mass slaughter occurs. Yet the above education has always been on the rise of tyranny and what that looks like so it can be stopped. You hear Germans say the same thing about their right wing even today.

If you look at the actions and commentary coming out Israel its alarming because we've seen what such dehumanisation CAN lead to.
 
The issue with the comparison to Nazi Germany is that it's supposed to work on the basis of shame. It is asking the Israeli if they feel ashamed to be a victimizer when they were previously a victim. But they've already answered that question. The answer is a resounding NO.

It is a different question if a German is asking "are we being the victimizer again." That is a repetition. This is a reversal.
 
Idxomer said:


More details here:
The Government Media Office in Gaza has accused Israel of stealing organs from 80 Palestinian bodies returned earlier in the day at the Karam Abu Salem (Kerem Shalom) border crossing.

“The media office denounces in the strongest terms the Israeli occupation army’s disdain for the dignity of the bodies of our 80 martyrs that Israel had stolen during its genocidal war because it delivered them mutilated,” a statement said.

“After examining the bodies, it is clear that the features of those killed had changed greatly in a clear indication that the Israeli occupation had stolen vital organs from them,” the statement went on to say.

The media office said this is not the first time Israel has “mutilated” Palestinian bodies, and it called for an independent international investigation into the taking of Palestinian bodies and theft of their organs.

“Israel has previously exhumed graves in Jabalia and stole some of the bodies in addition to the fact that it still has dozens of bodies from the Gaza Strip in its possession,” the office said.
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Long history of this.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
The issue with the comparison to Nazi Germany is that it's supposed to work on the basis of shame. It is asking the Israeli if they feel ashamed to be a victimizer when they were previously a victim. But they've already answered that question. The answer is a resounding NO.

It is a different question if a German is asking "are we being the victimizer again." That is a repetition. This is a reversal.
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It's also one of the quickest way to have to answer questions about alleged antisemitism. And this applies to jewish people themselves who are sometimes labeled as antisemite when they make such parallels or are too critical of Israel. That's why it's not helpful, it opens a can of worms and moves the conversation to a completely different topic.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
The issue with the comparison to Nazi Germany is that it's supposed to work on the basis of shame. It is asking the Israeli if they feel ashamed to be a victimizer when they were previously a victim. But they've already answered that question. The answer is a resounding NO.
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israelis tend to see the history of jewish people and Nazi Germany as an excuse for Israel to do anything it wants.
 
If you launch airstrikes and send troops and tanks into refugee camps, killing hundreds of people, then it's genocide and terrorism. It doesn't matter if there were some Hamas fighters there, it doesn't matter if they killed some Hamas fighters. They are terrorising and murdering civilians, essentially because of where they were born.
 
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
If you're being really cynical after a few beers, you'd almost think these disgusting takes were designed to make people severely dislike the Israelis so they can then scream antisemitism when people show disgust.
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Nah, the explanation in the tweet is correct. It's really how they feel and the vast majority of the target audience agrees.

This stuff isn't really for international consumption except maybe American zionists.
 
Idxomer said:
Nah, the explanation in the tweet is correct. It's really how they feel and the vast majority of the target audience agrees.

This stuff isn't really for international consumption except maybe American zionists.
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Not American Zionists so much as American evangelicals, a bigger audience.
 
Idxomer said:
Nah, the explanation in the tweet is correct. It's really how they feel and the vast majority of the target audience agrees.

This stuff isn't really for international consumption except maybe American zionists.
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So they don't understand their content is online therefore viewable by the rest of the world.
 
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
So they don't understand their content is online therefore viewable by the rest of the world.
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They do, they just don't care. They've convinced themselves the UN is the enemy in cahoots with Hamas, and various NGOs and charities like Amnesty, MSF, HRW and others are all bigoted and compromised by terror factions.

Its created a dangerous siege mentality in their society, which hasn't been helped by decades of the likes of Netanyahu at the helm, and the US empowering it.
 
Kaos said:
They do, they just don't care. They've convinced themselves the UN is the enemy in cahoots with Hamas, and various NGOs and charities like Amnesty, MSF, HRW and others are all bigoted and compromised by terror factions.

Its created a dangerous siege mentality in their society, which hasn't been helped by decades of the likes of Netanyahu at the helm, and the US empowering it.
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Agree. Emminently unlikable.
 
Israeli minister Benny Gantz warns of Lebanon border situation

Israeli war cabinet minister Benny Gantz has said that the situation on the country’s northern border must change, adding that the time for diplomacy was running out.

“The situation on Israel’s northern border demands change,” Gantz told a press conference, Reuters reported.

The stopwatch for a diplomatic solution is running out, if the world and the Lebanese government don’t act in order to prevent the firing on Israel’s northern residents, and to distance Hezbollah from the border, the IDF will do it."
 
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
So they don't understand their content is online therefore viewable by the rest of the world.
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The western media and the Israeli propaganda talk about the Palestinian population being radicalized but you have no idea how indoctrinated the Israeli society is and how decades of occupation and colonization have perverted the mind of big chunk of Israelis. It's of course not reported in the western mainstream media, but there's a bunch of documentaries available on YouTube (for people who really want to know) that tell volumes about the state of the Israeli society and their readiness to accept a Palestinian state. People forget that Netanyahu hasn't been in power for more than 16 years by force.

My German ex-wife, who really wasn't pro-Palestinian, visited friends in Tel Aviv and was the West Bank about 10 years ago. She was absolutely shocked by the casual racism showed by the Israelis she met, how they spoke about the Palestinians and their treatment in the West Bank. And her friends weren't exactly illiterate incels. She was really shaken by what she saw and heard there, and that's not even talking about Gaza. Things got much, much worse since then.

In addition to the arrogance and sense of superiority, there's a sentiment of impunity that allows the Israeli elected officials to make genocidal declarations and the IDF soldiers post videos even the Russians wouldn't, because they know that whatever they do, they'll never be held accountable. Of course, there's Israelis who oppose that and have been trying to raise the alarm for years, but they're preaching in the desert. The Israeli society has been steadily sliding to the far-right since Rabin was murdered in 1995. Any other country would've been declared unfrequentable and sanctioned, but we all know that when it comes to Israel, rules simply don't apply.

Here's an interview of Daniel Levy, who was an Israeli negociatior for the Oslo Accords, about the rise of the far-right in Israel and its hold on a part of the society. @Amir can give his piece of mind about how accurate Levy's analysis is.

 
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Not sure if this is the right thread to put it on. Admins please do what you think is appropriate.

A poll carried out suggests 1 in 5 American young people have a positive view of Osama Bin Ladin (source multiple media)

Surprisingly the biggest group percentage wise is 19-29 year old women (source a guy on LBC radio)

Suggestions that the Israel Hamas war may be one of reasons behind this. Osamas letter to the USA being a main one. (Source various but mainly the LBC radio discussion I was listening to)

**I was listening to a discussion on LBC whilst driving so some of it maybe sketchy and I can't remember name of guy who was being interviewed.
 
That_Bloke said:
The western media and the Israeli propaganda talk about the Palestinian population being radicalized but you have no idea how indoctrinated the Israeli society is and how decades of occupation and colonization have perverted the mind of big chunk of Israelis. It's of course not reported in the western mainstream media, but there's a bunch of documentaries avalaible on YouTube (for people who really want to know) that tell volumes about the state of the Israeli society and their readiness to accept a Palestinian state. People forget that Netanyahu hasn't been in power for more than 16 years by force.

My German ex-wife, who really wasn't pro-Palestinian, visited friends in Tel Aviv and was the West Bank about 10 years ago. She was absolutely shocked by the casual racism showed by the Israelis she met, how they spoke about the Palestinians and their treatment in the West Bank. And her friends weren't exactly illiterate incels. She was really shaken by what she saw and heard there, and that's not even talking about Gaza. Things got much, much worse since then.

In addition to the arrogance and sense of superiority, there's a sentiment of impunity that allows the Israeli elected officials to make genocidal declarations and the IDF soldiers post videos even the Russians wouldn't, because they know that whatever they do, they'll never be held accountable. Of course, there's Israelis who oppose that and have been trying to raise the alarm for years, but they're preaching in the desert. The Israeli society has been steadily sliding to the far-right since Rabin was murdered in 1995. Any other country would've been declared unfrequentable and sanctioned, but we all know that when it comes to Israel, rules simply don't apply.

Here's an interview of Daniel Levy, who was an Israeli negociatior for the Oslo Accords, about the rise of the far-right in Israel and its hold on a part of the society. @Amir can give his piece of mind about how accurate Levy's analysis is.

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Good lord, interesting post, thanks.
 
Idxomer said:
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Saw that. I’m sure they spent ages going through all the data and money trails, communicated with lots of global banks and nailed it down to that bank… and ALL of its money.

Rather than just stole it as part of a wider strategy to wipe Palestine off the map.

Genocide, destruction of all property, wiping the history off the face of the planet and now stealing the cash. Rings a bell somewhere…
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Saw that. I’m sure they spent ages going through all the data and money trails, communicated with lots of global banks and nailed it down to that bank… and ALL of its money.

Rather than just stole it as part of a wider strategy to wipe Palestine off the map.

Genocide, destruction of all property, wiping the history off the face of the planet and now stealing the cash. Rings a bell somewhere…
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I thought it was funny when Biden and some European states were talking about trying to stop settler violence/terrorism. Part because it was nothing more than a pointless gesture, and mostly because the Israeli government and the IOF are the ones who sponsor and commit most of the terrorism Palestinians face in the West Bank and East Jerusalem.
 
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Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
Good lord, interesting post, thanks.
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Here's another interview with Peter Beinart, editor of Jewish Currents and professor at the CUNY University of Journalism.

He explains why Palestinians turned to radical orgainzations, and has a thought provoking view about the striking similarities in the founding myths of the US and Israel and why it created so much affinities between the two countries, aside from the obvious religious and strategic links. He also describes what happened in Harvard and Columbia as a reactionary attitude of the establishment, and the institutionalized (and racist) anti-Palestinian stance firmly anchored in the American political apparatus.

 
From the BBC:

An Israeli military official has said that the use of the wrong munition led to "extensive collateral damage" in strikes targeting the Maghazi refugee camp on 24 December.

According to the Hamas-run health ministry, at least 86 people were killed by Israeli air strikes on the camp on Sunday, according to the UN, and that number could still rise.

Speaking to public broadcaster Kan news, an Israeli military official said: "The type of munition did not match the nature of the attack, causing extensive collateral damage that could have been avoided."

They said the incident was being investigated further.

Asked about the report, the IDF told the BBC that it "regrets the harm to uninvolved individuals, and is working to draw lessons from the incident".

The military said its jets had struck two targets adjacent to an area where Hamas operatives were located but that additional buildings were also hit during the strikes.
 
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