Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

The idiocy of the right to self-defense line knows no bounds and this has been proven countless times since the zionists started their murderous rampage. Anyone still parroting it is either a zionist or has been fooled by the shameless propaganda for decades.

The goal has always been ethnic cleansing and land grabs. Suspending the UNRWA funding is one of the obvious cases towards achieving that goal.
 
Idxomer said:
The idiocy of the right to self-defense line knows no bounds and this has been proven countless times since the zionists started their murderous rampage. Anyone still parroting it is either a zionist or has been fooled by the shameless propaganda for decades.
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I do find it odd how so much defense of Israel online is based on repeating canned lines. It comes across as downright cultish.
 
Beachryan said:
Once again I find it fascinating how so few people will blame Iran for anything, particularly on the left.

It's Biden's fault for being weak. Oh but look at those war-mongering conservatives! They're so cringe.

Iran just gets to keep f*cking around with the world order, its agency is ignored or even accepted, and it's the fault of the western nations in how they react. The kid-glove treatment is staggering. The same vociferous voices that blame any US action in any foreign border is oddly silent when Iran do it, constantly.

Look at what Iran could achieve this year, and cost it virutally no citizens and no consequences: by instigating October 7th and (easily) predicting the Israeli response, it has entirely destablised that region, driven a wedge into world politics and created a swell of anti-Biden force that could see Trump get into power, thus ending US foreign-policy for at-best 4 years. By shutting down crucial shipping lanes, it has increased world inflation and impacted world economies to the tunes of billions and billions.

And what to consequence? Nothing.
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The attack is consequence of decades of poor treatment of Palestinians, yet it is somehow conveniently ignored.

Iran destroys world order blah blah. What world order, one in which Israel can do literally whatever they want to Palestinians and that for decades? Everyone who is not blessed to be living in west should just accept that?
 
Bosnian_fan said:
However, stopping current conflict should be rather easy for USA. Stop Israeli genocide in Gaza, and that's it. Then you can see what happens with Houthis, Hezbollah and other factions. But first stop genocide in Gaza. If you are going to let Israel carry out genocide, and you are also supplying them with weapons, while blaming others for destabilizing the region, then you are merely spewing bullshit.
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Do the slowing death toll and increase in aid not suggest that the US have been somewhat successful in putting pressure on Israel in order to prevent what looked like a potential genocide? To me there’s absolutely no doubt that Israel cared extremely little about civilian casualties during the first two months of the war but it also seems quite clear that the pressure from the international community has forced Israel to temper their revenge-thirst. And the US, or anyone, could hardly tell Israel that they should just take the Hamas attack on the chin, could they?
 
Jev said:
Do the slowing death toll and increase in aid not suggest that the US have been somewhat successful in putting pressure on Israel in order to prevent what looked like a potential genocide? To me there’s absolutely no doubt that Israel cared extremely little about civilian casualties during the first two months of the war but it also seems quite clear that the pressure from the international community has forced Israel to temper their revenge-thirst. And the US, or anyone, could hardly tell Israel that they should just take the Hamas attack on the chin, could they?
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Is that a serious question?
 
Jev said:
Do the slowing death toll and increase in aid not suggest that the US have been somewhat successful in putting pressure on Israel in order to prevent what looked like a potential genocide? To me there’s absolutely no doubt that Israel cared extremely little about civilian casualties during the first two months of the war but it also seems quite clear that the pressure from the international community has forced Israel to temper their revenge-thirst. And the US, or anyone, could hardly tell Israel that they should just take the Hamas attack on the chin, could they?
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You can't be serious for fecks sake.
 
Idxomer said:
Is that a serious question?
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If the extremely high civilian casualties triggered understandable worry about a potential genocide, why would a slowing of the same numbers not suggest (while not absolving Israel in any way) that international pressure, including US diplomatic pressure, might have an effect?
 
Jev said:
If the extremely high civilian casualties triggered understandable worry about a potential genocide, why would a slowing of the same numbers not suggest (while not absolving Israel in any way) that international pressure, including US diplomatic pressure, might have an effect?
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There's no slowing of civilian casualties, 350 were killed in less than 48 hours after the ICJ ruling. The north of Gaza is starving and can't find food. Ethnic cleansing in the same area happening as we speak while extreme zionists are holding conferences for more of the same that has been happening for decades.

Replied here as it's more relevant to this discussion.
 
This is such a silly distraction. You're operating in a war zone in a place run by a specific group for a couple of decades, you hire many thousands of local people, it's obvious some will be linked to the group running the fecking place.
 
Jev said:
As does the anti-US propaganda. I did not defend Israel in any way, I literally said they seemed to be having genocidal intentions.
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You shouldn't need propaganda to be anti-US for their actions in the region. And I answered my problem with your post in the Palestine thread.
 
maniak said:
This is such a silly distraction. You're operating in a war zone in a place run by a specific group for a couple of decades, you hire many thousands of local people, it's obvious some will be linked to the group running the fecking place.
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It depends on what linked even means. If they're related or have the same family name they are linked but it means very little because one family could have a thousand members or more.
 
Idxomer said:
There's no slowing of civilian casualties, 350 were killed in less than 48 hours after the ICJ ruling. The north of Gaza is starving and can't find food. Ethnic cleansing in the same area happening as we speak while extreme zionists are holding conferences for more of the same that has been happening for decades.

Replied here as it's more relevant to this discussion.
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There is in the sense that casualties per day were highest during the initial, random bombings of everything and everyone in Gaza. Did Israel commit a genocide then? Possibly, ICJ’s initial ruling certainly suggests they suspect this might have been the case. The question (which was what I was commenting on) then becomes, what could the US do to prevent that? They could have stopped supplying Israel with weapons, which would have made little difference as Israel don’t really rely on military donations from the US anymore. They could have ordered Israel, through the Security Council, to stop the war. There’s no guarantee Israel would have listened, they may just have gotten more aggressive if they felt isolated and abandoned with noone to answer to. Or they could use the fact they have a direct phoneline and a cordial relationship to exert diplomatic pressure, which is what they have done, or tried to.
 
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Jev said:
There is in the sense that casualties per day were highest during the initial, random bombings of everything and everyone in Gaza. Did Israel commit a genocide then? Possibly, ICJ’s initial ruling certainly suggests they suspect this might have been the case. The question (which was what I was commenting on) then becomes, what could the US do to prevent that? They could have stopped supplying Israel with weapons, which would have made little difference as Israel don’t rely on military donations from the US anymore. They could have ordered Israel, through the Security Council, to stop the war. There’s no guarantee Israel would have listende, they may just have gotten more aggressive if they were isolated with noone to answer to. Or they could use the fact they have a direct phoneline and a cordial relationship to exert diplomatic pressure, which is what they have done.
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It has been known for a long time that the daily death toll would become increasingly inaccurate due to the destruction of hospitals, civil society, etc. who are the ones who can keep track.

For example, this story: "Gaza health officials say they lost the ability to count dead as Israeli offensive intensifies." That's from late November.
Or this other story, "The Daily Struggle to Count the Dead in Gaza." That's from late December.

You simply cannot claim that 'deaths have declined' with any degree of accuracy anymore.
 
Jev said:
Do the slowing death toll and increase in aid not suggest that the US have been somewhat successful in putting pressure on Israel in order to prevent what looked like a potential genocide? To me there’s absolutely no doubt that Israel cared extremely little about civilian casualties during the first two months of the war but it also seems quite clear that the pressure from the international community has forced Israel to temper their revenge-thirst. And the US, or anyone, could hardly tell Israel that they should just take the Hamas attack on the chin, could they?
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back in the real world famine is now inevitable in Gaza.
 
Jev said:
Do the slowing death toll and increase in aid not suggest that the US have been somewhat successful in putting pressure on Israel in order to prevent what looked like a potential genocide? To me there’s absolutely no doubt that Israel cared extremely little about civilian casualties during the first two months of the war but it also seems quite clear that the pressure from the international community has forced Israel to temper their revenge-thirst. And the US, or anyone, could hardly tell Israel that they should just take the Hamas attack on the chin, could they?
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Slowing death toll? Have you seen how many have died this week alone?

The US has the power to end this carnage immediately. But it can't even bring itself to condemn the genocidal intent of their Israeli partners. On the contrary they've rewarded them with even more weapon shipments. To suggest they're doing what they can to minimise the suffering is outlandish, they're very much complicit as they always have been over Israel's crimes over the decades.
 
Jev said:
There is in the sense that casualties per day were highest during the initial, random bombings of everything and everyone in Gaza. Did Israel commit a genocide then? Possibly, ICJ’s initial ruling certainly suggests they suspect this might have been the case. The question (which was what I was commenting on) then becomes, what could the US do to prevent that? They could have stopped supplying Israel with weapons, which would have made little difference as Israel don’t rely on military donations from the US anymore. They could have ordered Israel, through the Security Council, to stop the war. There’s no guarantee Israel would have listende, they may just have gotten more aggressive if they were isolated with noone to answer to. Or they could use the fact they have a direct phoneline and a cordial relationship to exert diplomatic pressure, which is what they have done.
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It absolutely would've made a difference. It would crumble the Israeli economy even more and the military donations and sales from the US are still vital to Israel, not sure why you think otherwise. Feeling isolated if the US didn't perform the farce they did during the last Security Council vote would've increased the pressure on them to a much greater degree. Why do you think the US have been vetoing all resolutions against them for decades? They understand more than anyone else the importance of the US for them. So no they wouldn't act more aggressively because the loss of the US support would signal their end.

Phone calls and Biden hanging up on Netanyahu is basically nothing. It actually feels that most of the dipolmatice pressure the US exerted haven't been directed towards Israel but Arabic countries.
 
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Iker Quesadillas said:
It has been known for a long time that the daily death toll would become increasingly inaccurate due to the destruction of hospitals, civil society, etc. who are the ones who can keep track.

For example, this story: "Gaza health officials say they lost the ability to count dead as Israeli offensive intensifies." That's from late November.
Or this other story, "The Daily Struggle to Count the Dead in Gaza." That's from late December.

You simply cannot claim that 'deaths have declined' with any degree of accuracy anymore.
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That answers the decline of casualties question which actually increased after that disgusting NYT headline and it's still very high.

The number of dead is much higher than the official number.
 
Hate it that Yahoo News are quoting a Fox News article, but it indicates that the list of countries suspending aid to UNRWA has now grown to 12.

Austria suspends payments to UNRWA amid Israeli allegations UN workers helped, celebrated Hamas (Yahoo News)

Now you have Australia, Austria, Canada, Finland, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, the Netherlands, Switzerland, the United Kingdom and the United States. It is serious when 2 nations (Austria and Switzerland) that are traditionally not geopolitically aligned with anybody are in this. As for Japan, they never feck around when there are allegations of corruption or misuse of Japanese money in aid or investment in other countries (like in Southeast Asia).
 
30k dead, 70k injured, 60% of hospitals not functioning, 70% of housing destroyed or damaged, 80% of the population displaced. Malnutrition and disease spreading, starvation imminent. Israel (officially) killed 170 yesterday and stopped aid trucks arriving; meanwhile the majority of the west removed its support from the major Gazan aid agency.

Things are looking up.
 
Ekkie Thump said:
30k dead, 70k injured, 60% of hospitals not functioning, 70% of housing destroyed or damaged, 80% of the population displaced. Malnutrition and disease spreading, starvation imminent. Israel (officially) killed 170 yesterday and stopped aid trucks arriving; meanwhile the majority of the west removed its support from the major Gazan aid agency.

Things are looking up.
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I'm not sure I understand. Who are the baddies?

Or is it just complex?
 
RedDevilQuebecois said:
Hate it that Yahoo News are quoting a Fox News article, but it indicates that the list of countries suspending aid to UNRWA has now grown to 12.

Austria suspends payments to UNRWA amid Israeli allegations UN workers helped, celebrated Hamas (Yahoo News)

Now you have Australia, Austria, Canada, Finland, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, the Netherlands, Switzerland, the United Kingdom and the United States. It is serious when 2 nations (Austria and Switzerland) that are traditionally not geopolitically aligned with anybody are in this. As for Japan, they never feck around when there are allegations of corruption or misuse of Japanese money in aid or investment in other countries (like in Southeast Asia).
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The European Commission is reviewing the matter as well.
The Commission will review the matter in light of the outcome of the investigation announced by the UN and the actions it will take. The Commission welcomes the information provided by UNRWA as well as the launch of the investigation.
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https://civil-protection-humanitari...pean-commission-statement-unrwa-2024-01-29_en
 
Idxomer said:
It depends on what linked even means. If they're related or have the same family name they are linked but it means very little because one family could have a thousand members or more.
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I don't even think that we need any caveat. UNRWA has 30k employees, the chance that a literal dozen are not good people is fairly high, that's true for literally every organization and companies in the world without exception. We are talking about 0.04% of their staff being allegedly involved with Hamas.
 
Idxomer said:
That answers the decline of casualties question which actually increased after that disgusting NYT headline and it's still very high.

The number of dead is much higher than the official number.
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The whole thing misses the point.

The daily death rate doesn't mean that much when you don't have a fixed number of days. Israel can kill 100 per day for 100 days or 200 per day for 50 days and the end result is the same, 10k dead. There is no threshold for daily deaths where if you go below it's no longer a genocide.

The early focus on daily death rate was to show that Israel seemed intent to kill and/or displace civilians. We have more than just the daily death rate for evidence now, we have the total deaths, the level of destruction, the repeated claims by Israelis that they want to depopulate Gaza and settle it, etc.
 
Raven said:
Woah, woah, woah, how can you make a statement like that about such a complex issue without even condemning Hamas?
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SORRY Sorry sorry...I've decided to educate myself further and realised this is SOOOOOOOO complicated so I retract my previous comment...I apologise to anyone I offended and I'll never speak against Israel again in my life I PROMISE
 
Just another day in Israel.


Wait until these Israelis find out the hostages also need food and water. The dumbest nation on earth.
 
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