It's official, better season than team A, B and C...

hellohello said:
Congratulations on winning the EL, but I don't put much value on it, the CL qualification is essential though
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The value is that we go in a higher pot seeding than Spurs in the CL and we earned more money from the Euro Cup win than we did from playing in the CL last year. We have also become one of the few clubs in history to win every major trophy in the game.

3 trophies in 4 'crisis' years shows that we are still a club for players to join if they want to win trophies and coupled with our financial might will see us able to attract major players this summer. Look at the delight of players after any League Cup final win and it is clear what even small trophies mean to players.

The value is high. To United at this particular time the value was even higher.
 
Yoy have the better output of the season, than anyone bar Chelsea. No doubt about it! You added two trophies, that will stay forever. And as many of you points out, no one will remember your horrible league campaign, when the years have gone by. But right now, we all remember the season, and we remember how our teams have performed. Are we as fans happy with what we have seen on the pitch? I would say, that you guys have been pretty unhappy except for the output of it..

But that is not the same, as the better season imo. Obviously most of you will disagree, and thats fine. Each to their own. Your manager though, he knows his priorities. This is what he said in 2013:

"I don't want to win the Europa League,"

"If I win the Europa League it will be a big disappointment for me because I don't want to play in it"

"I don't want my players to feel the Europa League is our competition."

"The most important thing in football is to be the best team in the season and try to win your domestic league," he said"
 
Congratulations to United for winning the EL. A trophy is a trophy, but most importantly it's the way back into the CL. Let's be honest, if it didn't get you back in the CL, most here wouldn't be happy about the season.
 
For me better than everyone other than Chelsea.

I keep hearing Pool fans go on about how the Europa league was better last season and they had a more difficult run- correct me if i am wrong didn't they play Sevilla in the final who Leicester knocked out this season? whilst canning off the Premier to accept 8th place in order to win it for 3 months? I have a Pool supporting mate and a brother in law claiming that was ingenious by Klopp at the time.

Up until 3 weeks ago we were still competing for a top 4 place and really only poor finishing this season stopped us from being in the top 3 never mind 4. I can think of maybe 2 games out of all them draws we probably didn't deserve to win or where a decision went against us which changed the outcome of the game (Everton and Pool).

At the end of the day though even our excuses don't matter. We won 2 out of the 4 competitions we entered. City, Liverpool and Spurs won nothing.

Everyone harking how Poch and Klopp are some superb breed of progressive manager and Jose is stuck in the past- he may not play expansive football- but even to a heat map virgin like myself it's pretty clear to see that he is building a foundation of a hard to beat team- the flair will come next- it's his nature- he sorts out the defence (which still needs settling and work) and then builds from that. How we went on such a long unbeaten run changing the back 4 every week is beyond me- it just shows though- everyone of those defenders- however average they are were able to keep other teams out for the majority of the season, he obviously has a knack of getting players to understand what he want's.

If people cannot see the progress he has made since Moyes and LVG who were both poor appointments then they are blind.

I'm not stating we will win the league next year- it's too hard to call- but i certainly think we will be up there, and it will be great to see how Klopp does again next year in particular playing twice a week (we all know how difficult they found it playing Plymouth and Wolves in the cup whilst playing in the league the same week), we all know what Spurs will do- hammer 5 or 6 against the lower teams, play well at home and nick a few wins against the big teams and bottle job the away games against the top sides, City will be interesting- if they strengthen the right areas they could be frightening with their attack- Jesus, Sane, De Bruyne seem to have a great understanding already so if he sorts out the defence they will be very hard to beat, Chelsea are another one- playing twice a week , probably losing Costa aswell- be a lot harder to defend their title thats for certain. I haven't mentioned Arsenal because they seem to need a bit of an overhaul.

I just want to see us keep winning trophies - whatever trophies we can, because although as a club we always strive for the title- with the EPL money now we can't go and nick the best players from those around us- the likes of Kane, Ali, Hazard and weaken them- so we have to look abroad and maybe lower down the league for our squad improvements and then face making that gel against Spurs and Chelsea who seem the most settled, so it's a lot harder to win than it was under Fergie, is it settling for less? Maybe so, but since Fergie left we have been such a mire for now i am happy with the steps we have made.
 
hellohello said:
I wouldn't and I doubt you'll find many who would. And if I could chose I'd rather have Leicester or Manchester City's European campaigns to yours.

Congratulations on winning the EL, but I don't put much value on it, the CL qualification is essential though.

Obviously United fans are going to put value on the EL now, but I can't remember a single time you believed that the EL winners had a better European campaign than you when you were knocked out in the later stages of the CL. When you were runners up behind Barca, no way would you accept that the EL winners had a better season because 'trophy > no trophy'.
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Yeah you can't put much value on winning trophies because Spurs never win them. Nobody remembers a team that reached the last 16 of the CL or who finished 2nd in the league. People remember teams that win trophies. Trophies are what matter in football.
 
Chelsea have had the best season in England, even if they lose the FA Cup final. That could only be debated if a different English team had won the CL.

But better than Spurs, City, Liverpool & Arsenal, yes.

That said, I'd take Spurs' 2nd place next season over 6th and the Europa league because next season we need league progress imo
 
How is this even a debate? Better season than everyone except chelski. Spurs have won what a couple league cups in 20 years? Liverpool haven't won a trophy in 5 or 6 years and had maybe 2 cups in the last 10, same for Arsenal. In the consensus worst 4 years in our past 25 we've done better than them. And now we're in the champions league and will add to the squad cause we've got the cash. When the bookies odds for title winners come out we will be shorter odds than liverpool, arsenal or spurs.
 
Mister_Stubbs said:
The debate rages on, with success in the League Cup and now the Europa League with the bonus of qualifying for the champions league group stages.. have we had a better season than Liverpool, Manchester City and Tottenham?
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Yes
 
Definitely better than Pool, City and Spurs.

We've gotten what they have (CL qualification) plus League cup and Europa League. Can't really aruge with that. I am sure anyone of those teams would of loved to get CL qualification and a couple of trophies.
 
Yes. I don't get the whole league position argument. No one remembers 2nd 3rd or 4th.

Our objective was to get CL and we did with 2 cups a long the way. They, won nothing.

To add to the above, there was nothing in point difference between us, Pool, City and Arsenal until Jose went for the EL.
 
antihenry said:
So if City finished 3rd in their CL group and ended up in EL and then proceeded to win the competition while finishing ahead of United in the PL table, would their season be considered more successful? What if either Liverpool or Tottenham instead of concentrating on the domestic league decided to go for the EL instead and won it while finishing outside of the top four?

Considering the level of competition in the EL, I'd argue that any of the teams that finished above United in the PL would have a very good chance of winning it if they made it their priority. It only became a priority for United when Mourinho realized things are not going well in the PL.
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Spurs side v Gent....Lloris, Walker, Dier, Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Davies, Wanyama, Dembele, Eriksen, Dele, Kane.

I think they took it seriously? But still got knocked out by a side that finished third in Belgium ..... just above Oostende.
 
antihenry said:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...e-sights-set-on-winning-Champions-League.html

Embarrassment is not an emotion that Jose Mourinho has had to particularly concern himself with before this season.

But the Chelsea manager is well aware that in a campaign in which humiliation has followed humiliation on almost a weekly basis, there would be no greater personal embarrassment than suffering relegation to the Europa League.

Chelsea were Europa League champions when Mourinho returned to the club in 2013 and it took a matter of weeks for the Portuguese to dismiss the achievement and the efforts of former interim manager Rafa Benitez.

Defeat to Porto at Stamford Bridge on Wednesday night, however, would almost certainly see Mourinho contemplating Chelsea playing in the competition he insisted he would not want to win and claimed was “not good” for the club and players.

Mourinho insists Roman Abramovich would tolerate another serious blow, but Chelsea’s owner first sacked Andre Villas-Boas when the club’s participation in the Champions League was threatened and then dismissed Roberto Di Matteo when relegation to the Europa League was all-but sealed.

Abramovich clearly subscribes to the view Mourinho gave of the Europa League, when he said: “I don't want to win the Europa League. It would be a big disappointment for me. I don't want my players to feel the Europa League is our competition.”

In August this year, Mourinho repeated that view, adding: “When I returned, I felt the experience of Chelsea playing Europa League was not good.

“The Europa League is a different competition (to the Champions League), the Europa League is a different level of competition for a different level of player and a different level of club. It is not good for a big club to go there and win it.”

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So either your manager thinks Chelsea is a bigger club than United or he's just a lying hypocrite.
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Context:

1. Chelsea went into that season (which they ended up winning EL) as CL holder. Got relegated to EL makes it harder to enjoy the EL win (not that's it can be enjoyable for the occasion). Chelsea should be a CL team. Same thing Mourinho said about us this season that we should be in CL.

2. Ending its cycle is a good thing in itself, which Benitez did well for Chelsea by finished 3rd place, but relegated from CL to EL in the first place was the problem. Back then EL didsn't offer the option to end its cycle by winning it. Winning it is less prestigious since you had to suffer in the league (should put that extra effort at aiming for challenging for title which SAF did with us in 2012).

3. Raring to get yourself down to a competition where you can win is not the way to go, as that competition is a hinder for your ambition in winning the league. If it's CL, it's better gamble to take.

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What has changed since is EL now has an escape clause. If a team has any chance to fight for the league title (not position), the league should be the priority over EL. If the league is already lost, then who give a shite finish 2nd or 10th, if EL can offer better thing? Leicester & Chelsea won the title quite comfortably these past 2 seasons. There were no actual challenge so why someone like Tottenham prioritize the league position when the EL could do them a hell more good? L'pool last season picked a good choice with EL. They failed to win it & being unsuccessful, not because they wrongly prioritize the EL.

Halds said:
Yoy have the better output of the season, than anyone bar Chelsea. No doubt about it! You added two trophies, that will stay forever. And as many of you points out, no one will remember your horrible league campaign, when the years have gone by. But right now, we all remember the season, and we remember how our teams have performed. Are we as fans happy with what we have seen on the pitch? I would say, that you guys have been pretty unhappy except for the output of it..

But that is not the same, as the better season imo. Obviously most of you will disagree, and thats fine. Each to their own. Your manager though, he knows his priorities. This is what he said in 2013:

"I don't want to win the Europa League,"

"If I win the Europa League it will be a big disappointment for me because I don't want to play in it"

"I don't want my players to feel the Europa League is our competition."

"The most important thing in football is to be the best team in the season and try to win your domestic league," he said"
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antihenry said:
So if City finished 3rd in their CL group and ended up in EL and then proceeded to win the competition while finishing ahead of United in the PL table, would their season be considered more successful? What if either Liverpool or Tottenham instead of concentrating on the domestic league decided to go for the EL instead and won it while finishing outside of the top four?
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I don't understand how that's even a question. Winning the EL is more of a success than finishing 2nd, 3rd and 4th.
 
Chelsea have had a better season than us, whatever happens on Saturday. Spurs were a much better team than us.

Regarding who has had the best season. In order:

Chelsea
United
Spurs
City
Liverpool
Arsenal

If Arsenal win the FA Cup they can arguably swap places with Liverpool/City, depending how highly you rank actual trophies vs "fourth place trophy".

The other places aren't up for debate. At least they shouldn't be.
 
If Arsenal win the FA Cup they may argue that they had a better season than United. Why not? They finished ahead of you in the league and to win the FA Cup they had to go through City and Chelsea, both teams far better than whatever dross United had to overcome in the EL. The only downside is that they're out of the CL but it's the trophies that matter, right?
 
No. People also can't ignore what we spend and what we expected before the season. Spurs had an outstanding league campaign for their resources and squad. Liverpool did a good job too, both shouldn't finish above us in the league and they did (comfortable). Spurs finished nearly 20 points above us, difficult to ignore, they had a better season than us.
Don't get me wrong, 2 trophies are nice, but it's only the mickey mouse cup and the europe league. The PL and CL have a much bigger value than those trophies. We haven't won the EL trophy yet, so it's nice that we won it but I don't want to see us in it again and if it wasn't for the CL entry the season would have been a little disaster.
Just ask yourself, which season would you make happier next year? Finishing 5th or 6th again while crushing out of the CL in group stage and then winning EL and FA-Cup.
Or would you rather play a nice league campaign with us beeing up there in a close title race and finishing 2nd while playing good games against Europe's elite and giving a solid impression in a CL quarterfinal.
I would prefer the second season without a doubt despite no titles, but it would clearly show progress and make us noteworthy again in the main competitions.
 
Pyroblazer said:
No. People also can't ignore what we spend and what we expected before the season. Spurs had an outstanding league campaign for their resources and squad. Liverpool did a good job too, both shouldn't finish above us in the league and they did (comfortable). Spurs finished nearly 20 points above us, difficult to ignore, they had a better season than us.
Don't get me wrong, 2 trophies are nice, but it's only the mickey mouse cup and the europe league. The PL and CL have a much bigger value than those trophies. We haven't won the EL trophy yet, so it's nice that we won it but I don't want to see us in it again and if it wasn't for the CL entry the season would have been a little disaster.
Just ask yourself, which season would you make happier next year? Finishing 5th or 6th again while crushing out of the CL in group stage and then winning EL and FA-Cup.
Or would you rather play a nice league campaign with us beeing up therw in a close title race and finishing 2nd while playing good games against Europe's elite and giving a solid impression in a CL quarterfinal.
I would prefer the second season without a doubt despite no titles, but it would clearly show progress and make us noteworthy again in the main competitions.
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Great point.
 
antihenry said:
If Arsenal win the FA Cup they may argue that they had a better season than United. Why not? They finished ahead of you in the league and to win the FA Cup they had to go through City and Chelsea, both teams far better than whatever dross United had to overcome in the EL. The only downside is that they're out of the CL but it's the trophies that matter, right?
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We won two trophies. They (might) win one. Do the maths.
 
Pyroblazer said:
No. People also can't ignore what we spend and what we expected before the season. Spurs had an outstanding league campaign for their resources and squad. Liverpool did a good job too, both shouldn't finish above us in the league and they did (comfortable). Spurs finished nearly 20 points above us, difficult to ignore, they had a better season than us.
Don't get me wrong, 2 trophies are nice, but it's only the mickey mouse cup and the europe league. The PL and CL have a much bigger value than those trophies. We haven't won the EL trophy yet, so it's nice that we won it but I don't want to see us in it again and if it wasn't for the CL entry the season would have been a little disaster.
Just ask yourself, which season would you make happier next year? Finishing 5th or 6th again while crushing out of the CL in group stage and then winning EL and FA-Cup.
Or would you rather play a nice league campaign with us beeing up therw in a close title race and finishing 2nd while playing good games against Europe's elite and giving a solid impression in a CL quarterfinal.
I would prefer the second season without a doubt despite no titles, but it would clearly show progress and make us noteworthy again in the main competitions.
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So you would have preferred us to finish second and nothing, failing in every competition we entered than to win two trophies?
 
antihenry said:
If Arsenal win the FA Cup they may argue that they had a better season than United. Why not? They finished ahead of you in the league and to win the FA Cup they had to go through City and Chelsea, both teams far better than whatever dross United had to overcome in the EL. The only downside is that they're out of the CL but it's the trophies that matter, right?
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Yes and the Fa cup doesn't compare to the Europa league. Who beat along the way means about as much as how you win the game. Arsenal beat us in an FA cup final without having a shot on goal, How did you lot play in your final against Bayern? Football is a results business and with Mourinho and Man utd business is booming.
 
So much shite being spouted in this thread.
We were neck and neck with Arsenal Liverpool and City until we decided to concentrate on a trophy that also gave us automatic access to what the other teams were fighting for as an added bonus.
You have to be barmy to say those three have had a better season. And I;m sure some of these people make fun of Wenger for saying 4th place is like a trophy.
 
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Desert Eagle said:
Yes and the Fa cup doesn't compare to the Europa league. Who beat along the way means about as much as how you win the game. Arsenal beat us in an FA cup final without having a shot on goal, How did you lot play in your final against Bayern? Football is a results business and with Mourinho and Man utd business is booming.
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Literally the first time I have seen someone say this.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
Liverpool and City? Yes Spurs? No.
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2nd place is the same as finishing 17th. If you don't win the league then there's no difference in finishing anywhere outside the relegation zone. Don't fool yourself into believing anything else. A loser is a loser.
 
How can anyone argue that United haven't had the better season. Spurs put up a valiant effort for sure but it amounts to nothing in the trophy cabinet. Do you think Spurs players would prefer their season to ours?
 
adexkola said:
I don't recall anyone labeling Chelsea's season where they won the Europa League under Benitez, better than everyone else in the league bar the league winners.

I'm not sure if 2 cups mitigate a poor league position.
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So Chelsea also had a poor season when they won the CL as they finished 6th that year in the league.
 
cheeky_backheel said:
Unless Chelsea wins the FA cup, we have had the most successful season in the PL
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Chelsea had the most successful season in the premier League. That's why they won it. We've had the most successful season in the Europa League and League Cup...
 
Green_Red said:
2nd place is the same as finishing 17th. If you don't win the league then there's no difference in finishing anywhere outside the relegation zone. Don't fool yourself into believing anything else. A loser is a loser.
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Did you guys all watch Talladega Nights together last night?
 
Keeps It tidy said:
Literally the first time I have seen someone say this.
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Yeah it doesn't ever since the Europa Cup guarantees CL qualification.

Europa Cup without the CL Qualification was so-so. Europa Cup with CL qualification is fecking huge.
 
ivaldo said:
So you would have preferred us to finish second and nothing, failing in every competition we entered than to win two trophies?
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It's funny how people would laugh at Klopp and Wenger for adapting such shit mentality yet are okay to somehow downgrade ourselves when it comes to Spurs doing that.

If I wanted to admire somebody with very low spending it would be and was Ranieri's Leicester last season, people who have, wait for it, actually won something.

It's about as fecking silly as the Jardim vs Poch thread.
 
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